Path of Heaven - Discussion

[Morovir]

My favourite part was

 

 

Eidolon calling Horus a 'warp-swollen abortion'

 

[Apothecary Vaddon]

My favourite part was

 

 

Eidolon calling Horus a 'warp-swollen abortion'

 

Yeah that was a real zinger. 

[Sandlemad]

Loved it. Maybe not as... pensive as Scars but the first heresy book I've read to move past the 'wow, astartes killing astartes', early and middle years of the heresy. The Scars are worn down, bitter, they've lost their joy in battle. In the afterword Wraight even says that this is how you get hateful fanatics like 40k marines.

Thoughts on what I liked upon first read:

- The prickly EC apothecary. He's got a horrific abattoir, he's working on summoning hordes of daemons and then when he's politely asked if he learned this off of Fabius, his hackles raise. 'Fabius isn't the only fleshsmith, you know.'

- Eidolon. Great portrayal, lovely bit of art showing his resurrected form too. He's weird, kind of resigned to the way the legion is going, really seems like someone who doesn’t care if he lives or dies. He talks back to Mortarion! And then gets firmly put in his place. As mentioned above, he's a good mirror of Shiban.

- Mortarion. Good development, though he appears to vary depending on the author. It's excusable within the limits of character development but still. Here he is impressive but when we're in his head he's seriously insecure. He takes the elimination of the Vth legion as one last test for the DG to prove themselves worthy and for him to prove himself to Horus. He stops the esoteric studies he started in Daemonology and carried on in Vengeful Spirit and bans all warp stuff (Grulgor is chained up in a ship’s hold). The DG are going to do this themselves. Makes a visible contrast to Eidolon.

- The Death Guard in general are only glimpsed. Durak Rask is mentioned by name, he's been replaced. There's a lot of disease and mutation in their fleet, and it looks like quite a few of them have been surreptitiously experimenting with warp shenanigans over the past few years. Typon is nowhere to be found, he's the only senior officer not to answer Mortarion's summons and after Mortarion fails to stop the WS, he turns his attention to finding him.

- The brief depiction of Horus. He's monstrous. Molech really changed him, there's a huge gulf between him and his brother. We get a brief retread of his thoughts on them from Warmaster but updated. He's open about not really being able to truly direct the other primarchs or indeed the minutiae of the war (this book gets the scale across, lots of ravaged worlds and billions of auxilaries) but everything's flowing towards Terra...

- Shiban: no longer joyful, bitter, hate-filled, half his body is bionics (he calls them the Shackles), nearly kills Torghun when the sagyar mazan deathsworn return and spitefully places them as reserves.

- Jubal Khan: we finally get a good look at the lord of summer lightning, the last joyful and ebullient WS, had been prosecuting xenon out at the edge of the galaxy, returned to find civil war. After Qin Xa is killed by Eidolon, Jubal refuses to become head of the keshig so instead the Khan gives him the title ‘Master ‘of the Hunt’.

- Holy hell, the Khan’s fight with the greater daemon. Was waiting for this the whole way through. He cuts its chest open with its own sword and pulls out its heart. "‘There is nowhere left to hide,’ the Khan hissed, throttling the dregs of life out of the flailing daemon. ‘We know you now. We shall hunt you in every plane of reality. We shall cleanse the void, then we shall cleanse the warp.’"

- Torghun - he goes to his death laughing, finally getting the WS way, charging Mortarion (“Greetings, Lord of Death!”)

- Yesugei going to his heroic, sacrificial death with a gentle smile and a kind word to his friends.

Overall, a great book, the first one where it looks like the end is in sight. A lot of characters talk about 'the end', meaning Terra. Everyone knows that's the end point, everyone knows Horus can't be stopped before he gets there. It's the crux. The middle years are over.

@ Tallesin: Answers below.

1. No appearance by Fulgrim but Eidolon has taken a third of the legion. Both he and Horus at separate times make it clear that they have no idea where he has gone. Eidolon initially thought he had disappeared to avoid Perturabo seeking vengeance but that was years ago. Both are confident he'll reappear before Terra.

2. The Khan and Mortarion, as POVs. Horus, briefly, while meeting Mortarion. Russ, when the Khan shows up back in the Segmentum Solar.

[Kelborn]

Although I'm enjoying this thread quite a lot...it has become pure torture. I. Want. That. Book. :_D

 

Did contact BL if there is another way to obtain it without a credit card or an apple device (and avoid to wait 'til Novembre).

If there is one: FOR THE KHAN!

If not: Screw you, Mortarion! It is your fault! or rather So be it.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Woah, can I get more details on Russ's parts of the novel?

[b1soul]

Do we know what caused Shiban

such grievous injury?

 

 

Also...about Eidolon and

Qin Xa...was it a duel? Eidolon seems to be physically weak but with powerful sonic attacks. Not sure how these two would have a fight

 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I remember the wounds Shiban took at the end of Scars were grievous...with the Terran adviser(drawing a blank right now) saying in any other Legion he'd be interred in a Dreadnought.

[Augustus]

Spot on WLK. This is a must have. After two out of 3 anthologies this really has kicked the tires so to speak of the series. I finished it last night but I am going to reread it again for any minutiae and details I missed in my first read through.

 

 

This is how the Legions should have been portrayed. Wraight saves the Deathguard, EC, Horus, and a bit of Perturabo (doesn't appeared but passing reference to him was really well done). A galaxy wide civil war that lasts like 8 years and it feels like all the Traitor legions' hierarchies remained the same from then till 40k. I like how Wraight obliterated his. Seriously I cannot compliment him enough on the Job he has done. I can't remember the last time I walked away from a HH book and was like "I liked all of it." Heck, I had to put down Pharos.

 

The way he portrayed the Wolf King. The Khan goes to him and is like. "Dude, I am sorry. I just had to find out what the hell was going on." And Russ is doing some fast thinking and is itching for retribution. But then throws his head back and laughs. Quick to anger quick to laugh Russ. He's then like "You got nerve Ol' Boy. Go to Terra. I have work to do in the void. I don't trust myself or my legion to forgive you so quickly and there may still be a reckoning but we're cool for now, brother.

 

Eidolon is well done. Despite his crazziness and that of the III he is still a competent commander and is portrayed as such. I thought his arrogance was a lot more toned down when compared to his portrayals before the fall of the III. Understands the importance of masking your feelings and contempt. Cairo was cool. Very cool. No Primarch fights = win IMO.

 

Throughout the book I just felt the nose closing in on the V Legion. Masterfully done. 

I like how Torghun is portrayed as having rejected the Sons of Horus and all that it stood for and has embraced the traditions of the Scars while Shiban feels dead inside and has only hate in his heart. 

Paraphasing from memory Shiban: "Damn the legion and its superstitions, if he was a Dreadnought he'd at least be strong."

 

 

[b1soul]

I remember the wounds Shiban took at the end of Scars were grievous...with the Terran adviser(drawing a blank right now) saying in any other Legion he'd be interred in a Dreadnought.

Could u refresh my memory...how did Shiban get wounded at the end of Scars?

 

I remember he fought at Torghun in an inconclusive duel

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

I remember the wounds Shiban took at the end of Scars were grievous...with the Terran adviser(drawing a blank right now) saying in any other Legion he'd be interred in a Dreadnought.

Could u refresh my memory...how did Shiban get wounded at the end of Scars?

 

I remember he fought at Torghun in an inconclusive duel

 

 

He carried the Terran adivser to the Teleporter controls to bring the Khan, his retinue and the lone 1k Son back to the flagship.

 

he carried her through the storm of bolt fire on the bridge, getting shot several times. 

[b1soul]

Thanks ... makes perfect sense now.

 

Wow, so Shiban is now essentially

flesh-spare

 

 

Must be horrible for him to endure.

Is he still a formidable fighter?

 

[karden00]

Sooo....

Is it a fair thing to say that the success of a novel can be reflected by how many people take up the armies that the novel concerns? It may be a rather cynical view, but....

After all this awesome, who doesn't want a force of Vth Legion White Scars?

[Marshal Loss]

I want White Scars and and Emperor's Children, and I'd literally just bought some DG to work on...which I'm also feeling more enthusiastic about thanks to this novel. Please let him do a DG novel, please please please...

 

The White Scars were fantastic (and built upon an already great novel in Scars) but it's worth noting imo that this is hands down - by a mile - the best depiction of the Emperor's Children in the BL series. Fulgrim/Angel Exterminatus don't come close. Newfound Eidolon fan right here.

[1ncarnadine]

I want White Scars and and Emperor's Children, and I'd literally just bought some DG to work on...which I'm also feeling more enthusiastic about thanks to this novel. Please let him do a DG novel, please please please...

 

The White Scars were fantastic (and built upon an already great novel in Scars) but it's worth noting imo that this is hands down - by a mile - the best depiction of the Emperor's Children in the BL series. Fulgrim/Angel Exterminatus don't come close. Newfound Eidolon fan right here.

 

It's a serious problem! I flipped through the AoD Legions redbook one second toying with IIIrd legion list-buildling, and the next thing I knew I was on the FW webstore with a cart full of Palatine Blades and Kakophoni. I caught myself before I could order anything... pretty dangerous work there, Mr. Wraight. I'm on to your tricks.

 

I'm very happy that Wraight seems to be have dibs on writing the Death Guard now. Hoping it stays that way, he does a great job.

[Karthak]

So the named character death count continues to be overwhelmingly loyalist?

[Sandlemad]

@ b1soul:

 

 

Shiban is definitely slower and is constantly in some pain from the bionics. He's still pretty lethal but he notes that his movements are jerky while those of his warriors are fluid and graceful. Yeah, he really hates it. He refuses to paint the bionics and armour attachments in white.

 

RE: Qin Xa: it's a duel. Eidolon is physically more frail but his sonic abilities seem to have grown. He's pulping marines and ripping up the ground with it. Qin Xa is marginally the better fighter, even has Eidolon on his back early on but the lord commander get solid blows to Xa's head with his hammer and mashes him with his scream. Arvida, the TS sorcerer, manages to step in and protect Xa, getting the body back to the WS ships. He dies on the operating table.

 

Eidolon is in bad shape after as well, he's lost huge chunks of his armour. The fight's nicely done, you're meant to think it's the Khan leading the WS assault initially as Xa is wearing a similar dragon helm. Eidolon thinks so too and almost relishes the idea of dying to a primarch but when he's flat on his back he realises that if this was the Khan, he'd already be dead.

 

 

[drooling blood]

Good read. The Scars were great. Morty got a bit of a spot light. Eidolon had his moments.

Some political machinations going on, like the Beast series. Lots of back ground tidbits. 

Liked how no one knew where Fulgrim had gone. Eveyone just shrugs their shoulders. Oh hell turn up... probably.

 

 

I guess Arvida is confirmed to be off to the GK.
Though how they knew he was expected and not everything else going on. Is beyond me.

 

 

Pity about the ending. But Wraight had to fit the Valka in somewhere. Even some true wolves of Fenris were mentioned.

So I guess Russ's lateness to Terra has been retconned so he gets a spot in the Heresy. Like Guilliman.

[Augustus]

Hey, there is always the siege of Terra where the Traitor command structures take a beating and the tally swings back with deaths of Abaddon , Khârn, Lucius, Typhon, Forrix, Fall, Kroger, Berrosus, Bronn, Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Krendl, Eidolon. Oh wait; )

[Sevatar]

Hey, there is always the siege of Terra where the Traitor command structures take a beating and the tally swings back with deaths of Abaddon , Khârn, Lucius, Typhon, Forrix, Fall, Kroger, Berrosus, Bronn, Kor Phaeron, Erebus, Krendl, Eidolon. Oh wait; )

That has always bugged me, especially in AE. It seems unfair that most of the Loyalist commanders fall while the Traitors do not.

[Marshal Loss]

Well that is partly because many of those characters (particularly the largely unimportant Iron Warriors you mentioned - Kroeger, Berossus, Bronn, who are the result of Graham McNeill putting all his characters into AE) have to last to 40k (Abaddon, Khârn, Typhon, Eidolon, Forrix, Kor Phaeron, etc...), so they have insanely thick plot armour. It's unavoidable really although I do understand your point

 

The problem is that when writing the Traitor Legions it's usually the 'known' baddies from 40k who are featured because it's pure fan service. Path of Heaven does well by killing off a number of other traitor commanders so hopefully others continue the trend

[Sandlemad]

I guess it's kind of weighted by the fact that we always (i.e. pre-card game/BL/FW books) knew a bunch of traitor heresy-era veterans because they went on to have long and storied careers as champions of chaos. Historically we knew fewer loyalist examples because they didn't end up with warp-extended lifespans and didn't appear in a 41st millennium orientated game and background.

 

The only ones that jump out at me are Luther, Cypher, Astelan (for a given value of loyal), Sigismund, Alexis Polux and Bjorn the Fell Handed. Maybe a handful of other names appeared briefly in IA articles. I feel like ADB might have discussed something like this after Argel Tal was killed.

 

EDIT: Beaten by Marshal Loss.

[Augustus]

Marshal,

I think it would have been cool to have new traitor ｃharacters being the big wigs of the Legions. So when the war came we could see them dying along the way to and at the Siege of Terra. In some cases that is true. But it feels like the 40k big guys started out as big guys in 30k :/ 

 

Those guys like Lucius and Khârn could have been normal line officers that along the way to the Siege of Terra and the Scouring could have ascended into high positions. I really like how Talos is just some apothecary in the background (as of now). Sevatar is the big baddie and hes gone in 40k. This is the mother of all wars the. If the those in the Legion Hierarchies were content to watch the battles from afar it would make sense. But these guys go deep into the battle attempting to change the outcomes. And they come out of the Heresey and Scouring in one piece (granted some can ascend.)

 

 

Which is why I liked Cairo. Wraight made him seem important very quickly and then axed him. Well done.

 

[drooling blood]

Corner meet paint.

How does the line go in the intro? what ever happens you will not be remembered.

Unless your top 2 good.  Most top loyalists survive as well.

Wasnt Khârn a line (7th co?) officer to start with. Till he Khorned up.

 

The reason it doesnt happen much is the bad guys have always had the upper hand so far. The good guys throw the heros/ regular marines that have a (oath of moment) at the problem.

[HeritorA]

Would it please be possible to have detailed spoilers of the events/content of the book?

That would require somebody to actually have read the novel already

And HeritorA has, hence my request was obviously to him.

And yet he was plain wrong about it not featuring Mortarion (which it does heavily).

If I have quoted half the book for you - would you have been happy before the release? It's like - 'they killed Han Solo'

Plus - I never told you that I read it before release. As I mentioned to other people i was given info by another person who own a book. So it's from word to mouth, lol. Now I know - that person info should be strenuously verified.

[HeritorA]

My favourite part was

Eidolon calling Horus a 'warp-swollen abortion'

You forget «There will come a day when we are not bound by the wills of those child-gods. For now, we must do as we have learned to – prosecute their wars, pretend we are the masters of our own fate.»