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DBH Brigrade! 2k list


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53 replies to this topic

#1
Dont-Be-Haten

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Lo' B&C

DBH here, and sorry for the long hiatus. Been on Holiday.

So lately, I've been talking with some blokes at the locals' scene and a few things have come up, mostly to do with the strength and weaknesses of our codex, with/without allying. I've mentioned in threads before that I like the idea of a Grav-Centurion drop pod allied list, but to keep the army much more simplified and cohesive I would like to throw a list at you lot, and get some advice on it. There are several different ways to approach this list but I would like some C&C on it. This list could be played in friendlies or @ the tournament scene. I recently purchased a squad of Land speeders, and I have really enjoyed their utility in the BA list. I'll start with the list. And get to my focal points. I'm trying to decide if I want to go all in with this list, or if it would obviously be better suited for the Vanillas. Also for time's sake, you lot that follow me know how I like to make up names and the sort, but I will refrain and keep it easy-peasy.

HQ: XXX
Mephiston

HQ: 95
Librarian
Mastery Lvl 2
Gallian's Staff

Troops: 180
Tactical Squad
Heavy Flamer
Hand Flamer
Melta Bombs
Las/Plas RB

Troops: 180
Tactical Squad
Heavy Flamer
Hand Flamer
Melta Bombs
Las/Plas RB

Troops: 155
Tactical Squad
Melta Gun
Combi-Melta
Heavy Bolter RB

Elite: 180
Death Company Dread
Blood Talons
Melta Gun
Storm Bolter
Drop Pod
Locator Beacon

Elite: 180
Death Company Dread
Blood Talons
Melta Gun
​Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

Elite: 180
Stern guard
Melta Gun x2
Combi Melta
Melta Bombs
Drop Pod

Fast: 225
Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x3

Fast: 225
Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x3

Fast: 225
Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x3

So, I know the first thing that sticks out is the stern guard instead of ASM and the three squadrons of land speeders. I've gone back and forth between the Sternguard and a Furiso, or dropping Mephiston for another generic Libby or Captain/Chaplain option. The whole point of this list is to have in your face immediate threats that the opponent can not ignore, followed by the razor backs that can sustain some medium arms fire, while returning fire and having some levels of protection, followed by 6 land speeders with mobile range that can irritate the opponent and force the need to deal with them, but having to choose between the immediate threats and the speeders. i've also thought about dropping the Death company Dreads for Death Company, and changing the heavy/hand flamers to Melta/Combi-Melta. Is this list way off base? It incorporates some of the strengths of our army, but not all. I've also thought about a Tactical TDA squad or another squad of Sternguard just for additional wounds, as well as a Sanguinary Priest. I'm really wanting to build this list, because it seems to be (At least on paper a very solid hardy army) I could always drop the Speeder Squadrons down to 2 per and that would free up 225 points to put else where, thoughts here as well? All C&C Welcome! Have at it folks.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 01 July 2019 - 02:45 PM.

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#2
SlangWhanger

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I like it. Good troops contingent supported by solid assault/fast units.

Options to consider (if you want). Not saying these will make it more competitive, but could spice it up a bit:

Combi-flamer instead of Hand Flamers on sergeants? I've only used hand flamers once and i was pretty underwhelmed, though you will lose your +1 attack which can be a big thing with such a small squad.

Swap in Fragioso for Death company dread? Nice first turn template goodness, and can still rock in CC.

Is there any way of fitting more meltas/combi-meltas in that Sternguard squad? If so, i would. Meltacide goodness ftw...

Landspeeders are good actually and can be a real nuisance/distraction as you said. However, if you dropped one landspeeder from each squadron you retain their autonomy and annoyingness, and can settle for a plump death company squad, adding another thing for the enemy to split their fire up for.

And with Mephiston, although he is not necessarily necessary per se, he is undoubtedly cool and fluffy and fun to use. If you want to keep him, do!

Just a few of my ideas, but generally i like the fast, mobile-ness of it, something that Blood Angels are all about I suppose.

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#3
Dont-Be-Haten

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I chose the Hand Flamer for 2 reasons: 1 It costs the same amount of points as the Combi. Our Sergeants are the only ones that get them. 2; I can shoot it more than once, and has a more reliable overwatch than an extra bolter, albeit at -1 strength; versus just once. Math hammer wise it has the potential to produce more overall wounds, from both shooting and gaining the +1 attack. 

I can easily drop the Melta Bombs from the Tactical Squads for a secondary Combi-Melta. I've also thought about a Fragioso in place of one of the Death Company Dreads, Which is 15 points cheaper than either of the DCDs and would also add more Combi- on the sternguard squad. I like Mephiston, and think he is one of the key aces to the BA. I'm planning on Mephiston to use Biomancy just because of the chance at Iron Arm or Endurance. The Generic Libby will more than likely roll off the new supplement abilities. The Sternguard are actually meant to be less of a Melticide unit and more of a wound soak for Mephiston. To give another Strength 10 threat that's right in the face of the opponent's deployment, that has some staying power that just so happens to also have melta. 

Really looking at dropping those 3 speeders and running three squads of 2. That could add another squad of Sternguard with grav/combi-grav (or melta) or an additional Furioso with Drop pod with Frag/Flamer and still have roughly 50+ points to work with, or I could just add in a Storm Raven for Air Support. That's what I meant by several ways to run this list.


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#4
Remtek

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Having all speeders solo does really boost the list, it basically gives them splitfire and negates overkill wounds. When you jink with a squadron all have to snapshot. TML is an excellent choise, so they can play defensive early.  The fleshtearer detachment gives you 6 fast slots. 



#5
Boudan

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Why is sternguard a superior unit to provide ablative wounds to Mephiston over assault marines with the same Melta load out?

I'm not really familiar with Sternguard so to me it looks like they have access to special ammo. but are otherwise the same in this circumstance?
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#6
Dont-Be-Haten

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Why is sternguard a superior unit to provide ablative wounds to Mephiston over assault marines with the same Melta load out?

I'm not really familiar with Sternguard so to me it looks like they have access to special ammo. but are otherwise the same in this circumstance?

1. All of the Fast attack slots are filled and thus no room for removed JP ASMs. (Unless I run a Flesh Tearers Strike Force which would be completely different list 2. The different ammunitions and extra range are options that the ASMs lack.


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#7
Boudan

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Why not two land speeder squads of 3? It's slightly less flexible than the alternatives, but opens a fast attack slot and if you dropped the sternguard to ASM it would net an elite slot.

The ammo is good but...
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#8
Dont-Be-Haten

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If anything I'm looking at moving points around for. Another combi-melta. Unfortunately I don't like assault marines right now. I'd rather play vanilla ASM before I play BA ones, especially at the current stage of power. Also you're not losing attacks when picking up the specialist weapons. I've been looking at some death company in place of the sternguard with some inferno/plasma pistols splashed in. It actually nets cheaper that way, and I can put a fist on one.

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#9
Boudan

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Can you elaborate on your comment about vanilla vs. BA ASM? I wasn't aware of any difference save for weapon options.

Switching the Sternguard out in favor of Death Company seems solid due to greater synergy of close combat prowess and having a better ability to provide spare wounds (via FNP). Plus that additional power fist is a nice extra threat.
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#10
Dont-Be-Haten

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Vanilla marines get better formations first and foremost, hit and run plus fleet light & JPs movement in 2 phases chapter tactics then they get better cc load outs, and 15 points cheaper right out of the gate. It's terrible how much better theirs are compared to the BA dex. The only difference being a suicide melta squad with a free drop pod. Which isn't really how I run my ASM. A good player would know how to play around a single meltacide ASM squad.

I'm really leaning more and more towards death company. I've just got to tweak the list.

Also, the point of the triple speeder squadron, is for redundancy and speed, with great range and versatility. They are basically a super mobile devistators squad, or at least that's how this list plans to play out. Harassing super fast skimmers in the back, while Razorbacks pop shot and hold objectives all the while having to deal with CC dreads and Mephiston rolling either geokinesis, fulminations, or biomancy more than likely. However I must confess the technomancer nova power looks absurd if you can roll it. Especially with a drop pod against a mech heavy list. It isn't a necessary need, those are just boosts to him.

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#11
Dont-Be-Haten

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I've been thinking things over, and I've been looking at a few different ideas and thought I might throw some things by you all.

HQ: XXX

Mephiston

HQ: 95
Librarian
Mastery Lvl 2
Gallian's Staff

Troops: 180
Tactical Squad 
Heavy Flamer
Hand Flamer
Melta Bombs
Las/Plas RB

Troops: 180

Tactical Squad 
Heavy Flamer
Hand Flamer
Melta Bombs
Las/Plas RB

Troops: 155

Tactical Squad 
Melta Gun
Combi-Melta
Heavy Bolter RB

Elite: 165
Death Company 
Power Fist
Bolter
CCW x 4
Bolt Pistol x2
Infernas Pistol x2
Drop Pod
Locator Beacon

 

Elite: 180

Death Company Dread
Blood Talons
Melta Gun
​Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

Elite: 155
Death Company
Power Fist
Bolter x1
CWW x 4
Bolt Pistol x2
Infernas Pistol x2
Drop Pod

Fast: 150
Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

Fast: 150

Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

Fast: 150

Land Speeder Squadron
Typhoon Missile Launcher x2

Heavy: 250
Land Raider Redeemer
Multi-Melta Turret

This I believe gives me 15 points to work with give or take. And also gives me some AV 14 with nothing in it; and this is to help deal with Bike Squads that are all about linking. This also lowers the target priority of said Land Raider because it just a Redeemer with nothing in it, but also forces more choices onto my opponent. Thoughts?


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#12
Remtek

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At 2k points it's gonna be quite easy to deal with 2 drop pods turn 1, the speeders wont really target saturate as they like to tip toe at max distance.  The land raider can be ignored for a turn while opponent deals with dreads/razorbacks. 



#13
Dont-Be-Haten

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At 2k points it's gonna be quite easy to deal with 2 drop pods turn 1, the speeders wont really target saturate as they like to tip toe at max distance.  The land raider can be ignored for a turn while opponent deals with dreads/razorbacks. 

What about dropping the heavy bolter razor back for an additional drop pod. That would bring 3 turn 1, and with the new ruling on PotMS (when official) you can move 12 and still lay a template down where needed, or I can push it up the board with a flat out movement to help deal with stuff turn 2.

Also, I'm actually in the process of re-working this list to incorporate an Imperial Knight or Two, I just haven't picked up the Imp Knight Codex yet. 


Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 17 June 2016 - 02:08 PM.

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#14
Jolemai

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Who is your Warlord and have you a specific table you want to roll on for powers and Warlord Traits?

Is this a CAD, BSF or FTSF?

Who's going in the Landraider? Only the amount of eggs you put in the basket will determine whether or not it draws fire early...


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#15
Dont-Be-Haten

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CAD for objective secured.

Mephiston will more than likely be the warlord and he's probably going to roll on Biomancy. I'm going to have the Lvl 2 Psyker take the sanguinary discipline. As its 2 chances at the quickening or other good buffs. I've also thought about Librarius for the Lvl 2.

Originally I had planned to drop the heavy Bolter razor back and take a full 10 man squad of marines in the redeemer. Now I'm leaning towards a drop pod, removing the land raider and adding 2 Baal Preds. I've also looked at moving a few things off the board for the imp knight.

Edit: If I'm honest with myself I am really thinking about completely reformatting this list. I've purchased 3 drop pods and 2 land speeders so far for it and a lot of the stuff I've already had, but I do love the idea of this list though and I want to incorporate some of it.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 17 June 2016 - 04:29 PM.

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#16
Remtek

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I had game vs a shrouded ground pounding nid lists. I brought i LRR and it was pretty much unkillable to anything except smash. Even with flamestorm it just didt do enough to justify it's points cost. I love bringing them, but they never feel worth it. An Iknight would be a really solid anchor.

 

In regards to podding dreadnoughts, last tourny i brougth cassor the dammed in a pod since it was a highlander event. In all my games he was never embarked in the pod, just running up the board and was mvp or close to it in a lot of the games. If your playing against any lists with an assault element really consider just dropping the pods empty. People will often ignore them and then in turn 2 or 3 it's suddenly to late. 

 

Cassor has some interesting mechanics, in a cad he and the pod is obsec which is really nice and he is also a character. Being able to challenge can sometimes be really useful 



#17
Dont-Be-Haten

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GUESS WHO GOT HIS CODEX! cool.png

I've been thinking things over, and I've been looking at a few different ideas and thought I might throw some things by you all.

Flesh Tearers Strike Force 2,000 with two Imperial Knights:

HQ: XXX

Mephiston

HQ: 91
Sanguinary Priest
Bolt Pistol

Auspex
Valour's Edge
Digital Weapons


Troops: XXX

Cassor the Damned

Elite: 165
Furioso Dreadnought
Frag Cannon
Melta Gun
Drop Pod

 

Elite: 180

Death Company Dread
Blood Talons
Melta Gun
​Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod
 

Fast: 45

Drop Pod
​Locator Beacon


Fast: 135

Assault Marine Squad
Melta Gun x2
Inferno Pistol x2

Drop Pod

Fast: 174

Assault Marine Squad
Assault Marine +2
Melta Gun x2
Inferno Pistol x2
Melta Bombs.

Drop Pod

Fast: 135

Assault Marine Squad 
Melta Gun x2
Inferno Pistol x2
Drop Pod

 

LOW: 430
Knight Crusader
Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon

LOW: 330
Knight Gallant
Melta Gun


 

Current Changes in Red. 

I feel like this is a huge step away from my original list idea, as it essentially takes away the middle tier of the army.  It would also cause me to need to purchase 3 more drop pods. I'm not opposed to these list changes, however I would like some advice on how to bring back at least 2 speeders if possible possible. I do feel like this list is fairly strong though. Priest and Mephiston will sit pretty with the 7 strong meltacide squad. (Yes Boudan I've caved!) Thoughts on changes? I could easily drop this down to 1850 as well. 


Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 19 June 2016 - 01:12 AM.

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#18
Dont-Be-Haten

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With the Angel's Blade now in full swing I've decided to rededicate myself to the 3 tiers army. I still have my knights (if I ever assemble them that is, AHEM!) And I've had a lot of fun playing with different lists. Here's something I've played around with and On Paper I really like the way it looks. Let me know what you all think! Let's try to stay positive though!

 

So Here we go!

Angel's Blade Strike Force 2,000 points:

Core:
Battle Demi-Company

Elisha Gair: 150
Captain 
Relic Blade
Artificer Armor
Inferno Pistol

Gair's Sanguinators: 210 (Rule of Cool here)
Command Squad
Lightning Claw
Storm Shield
Grav-Pistol
Power Fist
Melta Gun
Drop Pod

Squad Galos: 155
Tactical Squad
Combi-Melta
Heavy Flamer

Heavy Bolter Razorback

Squad Uriel: 230
Tactical Squad
10 Man Strong
Hand Flamer
Power Sword
Melta Gun
Heavy Flamer
Rhino

Squad Severoth: 85
Tactical Squad
Missile Launcher

Malfurion the Bloodied: 125
Dreadnought
Twin-Linked Lascannon

Squad Arus: 110
Devastator Squad
2x Lascannon

Bloodied Rage: 75
Typhoon Pattern Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter

Auxiliary 1:
Rapid Assault Force

The Red Death: 75
Typhoon Pattern Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter

Auxiliary 2:
Death Company Strike Force

Hazriel the Oath Sworn: 150
Death Company Chaplain
Fury of Baal

Grudge Bringers: 145
Death Company
Jump Packs
Power Fist

Deathsworn: 145
Death Company

Jump Packs
Power Fist

The Redeemed: 165
Death Company
Power Sword
Inferno Pistol
Drop Pod

Furion the Unbound: 180
Death Company Dread
Blood Talons
Drop Pod
Heavy Flamer

Total: 2,000

I really like the way this list feels. It has all three tiers of the game, a rhino and razorback for midfield coverage, jumper death company to move up the three drop pods to force immediate threats or quick objective grabs, and then lots of range to help deal with armor and MC/GMC. I also really like the 2 land speeders as mobile Devastators that can pop shot when need be. I like the Sniper Dread here also because they are so slow, I realize I could just leave him as a meltacide but I like the utility of this dread to help counter assault anything along my Devastator lines. I don't have much that can deal with AA right off the bat, but I can totally tweak the list if I feel like it is a problem. getting sky fire from mysterious objectives works well there too. Overall I'm not super concerned with Flyers/Flying Monstrous Creatures.


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#19
Dont-Be-Haten

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I've been thinking and I can't decide if I want to move points around for a Librarian, or Sanguinary Priest. I could drop the death company strike force completely and add more elements to the First Auxillary, as well as adding a second Devastator team. I also like the idea of the Golden Boys or the Orbital Intervention Force for added deep striking threats that can Assault. Thoughts?

Thought; if I Drop the Death Company Strike Force in favor of the OIF I would still have 145 points left over, that's taking a heavy flamer and 3 TH SH for each Assault Squad. 135 if I chose to take the Assault Cannon which I am leaning that way but is be okay with the heavy flamer in order to burn pesky objective holders. Basically this nets me a priest or librarian with points left over. Allowing me to upgrade and move points around, such as adding locator beacons to drop pods etc. I would just need to find some way to add a 3rd drop pod back into the list.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 29 September 2016 - 11:17 AM.

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#20
Jolemai

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Having attempted a "three tier list" before now, I find the main concerns to be each "tier" has enough about it to be a threat and that there is enough redundancy. Looking at the above list, do you feel you have the right balance and if not, do you feel you have significant other distractions elsewhere (for example, how do you plan on keeping the only two Tanks you have alive?)

 

How do you wish to play the list and what sort of Warlord Traits would you ideally be looking for?


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#21
Dont-Be-Haten

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I agree I really want to add at least 1 more Razorback back into the list. I've also looked at going heavy mech in the Auxillary slot and take the Lucifer pattern Force. Ideally, the tanks are meant to be mid field objective holders but two just doesn't seem like enough. Ultimately I guess I'm going to have to Sacrifice somewhere to gain at least 1-2 additional tank(s). First would be the command squad getting tweaked. I've also thought about dropping the big formations all together and just taking the small Auxillaries alongside the Demi company.

That damn Dreadnought though. /:

I want to force my opponents target priority, choosing between the range of missiles and lascannon Fire or immediate threats such as hammer units. I hadn't thought about it before but the dreadnoughts command choice wouldn't be horrible idea either, drop pod in, use ability to shoot or pile in and swing. Still a bit unclear on the free pile in though.

Edit: Warlord trait would most likely be from BA at a chance for either soul warden or DoA depending on which list I bring. If I brought the Veritas, then I would roll strategic.

I'm open to suggestions, but I would like to keep it them within this line of thought.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 29 September 2016 - 01:31 PM.

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#22
Dont-Be-Haten

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Jolemai, I've taken your questions and found a bit more stable list. This one in particular is at 1850 right now, so I wouldn't mind some advice on filling out the 150 to bring it up to 2k. I feel like this list as a lot more to offer. Changes in Red.

With the Angel's Blade now in full swing I've decided to rededicate myself to the 3 tiers army. I still have my knights (if I ever assemble them that is, AHEM!) And I've had a lot of fun playing with different lists. Here's something I've played around with and On Paper I really like the way it looks. Let me know what you all think! Let's try to stay positive though!

 

So Here we go!

Angel's Blade Strike Force 1,850 points:

Core: 1275
Battle Demi-Company

Elisha Gair: 150
Captain 
Relic Blade
Artificer Armor
Inferno Pistol

The Sanguinators: 215
Command Squad
3x Melta Guns
Las/Plas Razorback



Squad Galos: 155
Tactical Squad
Combi-Melta
Heavy Flamer

Heavy Bolter Razorback

Squad Uriel: 230
Tactical Squad
10 Man Strong
Hand Flamer
Power Sword
Melta Gun
Heavy Flamer
Rhino

Squad Severoth: 175
Tactical Squad
Hand Flamer
Melta Gun
Las/Plas Razorback


Malfurion the Bloodied: 125
Dreadnought
Twin-Linked Lascannon

Squad Arus: 150
Devastator Squad
4x Lascannon

Bloodied Rage: 75
Typhoon Pattern Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter

Auxiliary 1: 75
Rapid Assault Force

The Red Death: 75
Typhoon Pattern Land Speeder
Heavy Bolter

Command 1: 500
Chapter Ancients

​Zorael the Furious: 165
Furioso Dreadnought
Melta Gun, Frag-Cannon
Drop Pod

Allister the Mighty: 165
Furioso Dreadnought
Melta Gun, Frag-Cannon
Drop Pod

Cadeus the Red Handed: 170
Furioso Dreadnought
​Blood Talons
Drop Pod



Current Total is 1850, I really feel like this is much improved overall. I'm still going to roll on the BA Warlord traits for either Rampage, or Soul Warden, since I have no need for DoA now. right now, I'm thinking about either adding a squad of ASM with some minor upgrades or grab the Veritas a Lvl 2 Librarian etc. How do you feel about this list? I feel like it has loads of potential.


Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 30 September 2016 - 05:58 PM.

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#23
ghost_9pm

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Hey I just have a couple of general strategy questions for you regarding this list. I like to call lists like this "True Combined Arms" because they have a mix of ranged and close quarters fighting. Its basically a take on all comers list that in theory should do competitive against most opponents. Do you find that to be the case or is it one of those "Jack of all trades, master of none" situations?

 

The reason I ask is because in the past I've usually built completely shooty or completely close combat focused armies and was thinking about building a mixed list like this. I have a couple of AutoLas preds and some Razorbacks I want to put to use. I really like the squadrons of land speeders. I think people go "Oh Land Speeders, I can deal with them later" and leave them alone until its turn 5 and they're still flying around capping objectives and killing marines. Is that pretty accurate?

 

Thanks for sharing your ideas.


Edited by ghost_9pm, 30 September 2016 - 09:59 PM.


#24
Dont-Be-Haten

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Cheers!

I've been bouncing ideas off a lot of veterans and the like for awhile. And here are a few things I've gathered.

Lists like this to much amazement actually survive codex creep and editions abit better than more mono spam lists etc. simply because you pool your resources and everything works in a synergy of sorts.

I really love the idea of forcing your opponents target priority. I really feel like this is how Blood Angels and to a greater extent space marines should be played. The amount of utility our fast ranks bring combine with our deadly dreads and good long range support nets more pluses than losses.

The main problem I'm finding with these list is saturating the opponent with multiple threats. The three dreadnoughts are great and all but you really seem to need more than 2 in your opponents deployment zone turn 1 at 2,000. You can however do damage where you need to and tie your points. If they take away from shooting your better range then it's a win for you. If need be you can always claim a tactical objective instead and use the heavy hitters as counter assault units for your ranged lists, all the while giving your land speeders the precious time they need to deal with hordes or light armor if need be.

Edited by Dont-Be-Haten, 01 October 2016 - 12:54 AM.

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#25
Dont-Be-Haten

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I keep going back and forth on what I want to do with this list. I've also been looking at the Orbital Intervention Strike Force. If I removed the Chapter Ancients Command Squad, and filled it with 3 squads of terminators, 2 assault terminators and 1 tactical, both assaults wielding 3 TH/SH and 2 LCs and then the tactical  TDAs sporting a Heavy Flamer, if math is correct it comes in right at 2k. How might this look vs. the Dreadnoughts? The Golden Host is also an Option I hadn't considered before, I believe it comes in right around the same points spread.


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