Ogryns: how useful as of right now?

[Indefragable]

In a paint escalation league at my FLGS. It goes up 500pts a month (we're on 1500pts for August) and the way it works is only painted models can score. Cool way to get people who are terrified of painting (like this guy) to actually break down and pull out some brushes.

 

To add an extra layer of fun to this I am trying to use models and units in the collection I rarely or have never used.

 

In this case, I am considering a squad of Bullgryns with Power Maul/Brute Shield and a squad of Ogryns.

 

I have used the Bullgryns a few times, but usually with allied Blood Angels (Mephiston's T5 pairs very well).

 

My question(s) are:

 

-has anyone used either Bullgryns or Ogryns recently?

-any advice on using Ogryns? I have actually never used the default kind

 

If I use them, I plan on running a squad of 3-4x Bullgryns with a Ministorum Priest and a squad of 3-4x Ogryns with a Ministorum Priest as well. I will probably have a few Primaris that I would fish for 4++ with and stick him in with the Ogryns.

 

Any advice is appreciated, even if it's "STAY THE HECK AWAY THEY ARE NOT WORTH IT AT ALL."

[WarriorFish]

I know Coffee has had some good results with Bullgryns, but generally their use is fairly straight forward depending on your chosen build. I think the maul upgrade has potential but the price is too high for my tastes so I'm building mine with slabshields - the idea is to have them provide a solid defence and counter attack element.

 

Regarding Ripper armed Ogryns I think they're left behind somewhat sadly. They can do some pretty good shooting but it's not like we're short of that in our codex and the Bullgryns are better in combat which is arguably where they're better and the rest of our codex needs more help. I'm sure others who know more can help you out with more detail :)

[CoffeeGrunt]

I've only used Bullgryns in Apocalypse as support as IMO they'll never pull their weight for how much you pay for them. That said, a Priest is essential and with Slabshields turns them into a nice CC machine. Give the Bone'ead a Power Maul to handle anything more serious.

 

I had one triumphant game where a squad of six with Power Maul Bone'ead and Priest went through two Carnifexes, three Hive Guard, Deathleaper and a Tervigon before the game ended, but that was mostly because they were overlooked while he engaged the other 10K or so of my Guard, giving me the chance to get them stuck in.

 

I might throw a Primaris Psyker in to unstick them by using Force weapons, but that just exacerbates their exorbitant points cost.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I don't have any, and nor have I ever used them. However, Ogryns, as WF said, give us some CC ability that our Codex sorely lacks. Unfortunately we have no real good way to deliver them to the fight. We can use a chimera, bit then they spend a turn getting shot when they should be assaulting.

 

Slabshields and grenade gauntlets give them some ranged punch and a solid defense for that turn they spend not shooting after disembarking from a chimera. This puts them at a T3 charge, which is poop. Otherwise you need to ally in some land raider somehow to get them to the fight more effectively.

 

If you can get an assault transport, the Power maul and brute shield seem to be the way to go, and would be my choice.

 

The lack of assault transports, outside of FW that is, is the biggest downfall of guard in this current codex. I'd have 'gryns if I had a good way to deliver them.

 

Regular Ogryns seem to be problematic, as their save is poop, and they really need transport to get them to the fight on time. Again they spend a turn not doing what you need, unless you got Assault transports somehow.

 

I think they could be a ton of fun, and would love to use them.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Sadly as-per the new FAQ, you can't borrow Land Raiders anymore, so that option is gone. :/

 

My only problem with Power Maul and Brute Shield is that they jump up to 60pts a dude.

[Indefragable]

I previously used 4x Power Maul/Brute Shield with Mephiston, a Ministorum Priest, and a Primaris to make a mini Death Star that was exceedingly effective (Mephy's T5 2+ tanks unless there's AP2). Took out Thunderwolf Cavalry with only losing a few wounds in return. But with new rules for allied transports, their Land Raider is not the same.

 

Otherwise I used the same Bullgryns as a counter attack element for an artillery list...but the rest of the list collapsed so quickly I didn't have any real good data

[WarriorFish]

You can't start in a Land Raider, but you can still get in first turn. Not ideal no, but better than nothing.

 

I will be using my Bullgryns as soon as I have them all done, I'm still confident I can get some good enough use from them as a defensive and intercept element. They're great models so here's hoping our next update gives them a bit of a boost, even if it's only a points drop.

[Indefragable]

A points drop would certainly help. And a large Assault Vehicle would make sense for the Guard. The Gorgon would be perfect tweet it not a FW model.

[sebs_evo7]

Indefragable I'm looking at running a squad with mephy for a fun list in a raider. As WF said you can still embark them T1

I also pictured putting them near pask so they can counter charge and alpha strike

If you do run them post up how you get on

[duz_]

I wish I could take mine to the table

I've only done it once since I've been back in the hobby

It was 4 with Yarrick against orks. I only did it for fluff reasons.

 

Once they eventually got into combat they did work on the Boyz. But then the game was over a turn later....

 

I ended up getting Grey Knight terminators instead way better bang for the points especially when you can take dreadknights too.

[Akrim]

Ill be honest, I haven't used them, purely because I haven't gotten around to them yet. Usually Assassins eat up my cc pts allotment.

 

I think they're a decent unit on paper though, especially with a Priest in there to give them the Zealot hitting and armour rerolls (& don't forget hammer of wrath).

 

Adding a fourth to the base unit sounds tempting to get a +2 save but I think I would cap it at 3 + Priest.

 

Implementing, I don't think they necessarily NEED an assault vehicle. Depending on what I'm facing, I would probably use them in a counter assault role supporting my Conscripts or bring them in on a Valk via Grav Crute.

 

The imagery of the latter puts a smile of my face lol

[Indefragable]

Indefragable I'm looking at running a squad with mephy for a fun list in a raider. As WF said you can still embark them T1

I also pictured putting them near pask so they can counter charge and alpha strike

If you do run them post up how you get on

I had a full Battle Report on my club's old forums, but alas, the site was lost when we migrated to a new host.

 

Suffice to say Meph + Bullgryns are a fantastic, but exceedingly expensive, combo. Meph's T5 and 2+ tank the small stuff while the 5++ and 3W of the Bullgryns takes on the lascannons and whatnot. The Bone 'Ead can also take challenges to free Meph to wipe out the rest of the enemy unit. I had a priest in there as well as a Primaris. Basically Meph rolls on Biomancy, hoping for Endurance and Iron Arm or even Enfeeble. If, not the Primaris tries for them. If Meph gets decent Biomancy powers, then Primaris has his pick of the litter from Telepath or Divination.

 

The list looked like this:

 

++++

 

Meph's Muties 2000pts

 

Detachment One:

 

Blood Angels Combined Arms Detachment 1420pts

HQ:

Mephiston, Lord of Death

 

TROOPS:

Tactical Marines x 10

--Melta gun

--Heavy Flamer

--Sgt. Combi-Melta, Melta bombs

Rhino

--Dozer Blade

 

Tactical Marines x 10

--Melta gun

--Heavy Flamer

--Sgt. Combi-Melta, Melta bombs

Rhino

--Dozer Blade

 

Tactical Marines x 10

--Melta gun

--Heavy Flamer

--Sgt. Combi-Melta, Melta bombs

Rhino

--Dozer Blade

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Land Raider Crusader

--Pintle: Multi-Melta

 

Predator

--Turret: TL Lascannon

--Sponsons: Lascannons

--Dozer Blade

 

Predator

--Turret: TL Lascannon

--Sponsons: Lascannons

--Dozer Blade

 

Detachment Two:

 

Imperial Guard Allied Detachment 580pts

NO FORCE ORG:

Ministorum Priest

 

Primaris Psyker

--ML2

 

HQ:

Lord Commissar

--Melta Bombs

 

TROOPS:

Veteran Squad

--Melta gun x 3

Chimera

--Turret: Multi-Laser

--Hull: Heavy Bolter

--Dozer Blade

 

ELITES:

Bullgryns x 4

--Power Maul and Brute Shield x 4

 

++++

 

 

I haven't used that list in a long time but now you're bringing back memories! The last time I used it I played Space Wolves and the Lord Commissar made like 11 saves against Plasma, Hellfrost, lascannons, Krak Missiles, you name it....with a 5++!!! Lord Commissar Oculus I named him...because he just glares at incoming fire and even the missiles and lascannons are too scared to touch him!

Ill be honest, I haven't used them, purely because I haven't gotten around to them yet. Usually Assassins eat up my cc pts allotment.

 

I think they're a decent unit on paper though, especially with a Priest in there to give them the Zealot hitting and armour rerolls (& don't forget hammer of wrath).

 

Adding a fourth to the base unit sounds tempting to get a +2 save but I think I would cap it at 3 + Priest.

 

Implementing, I don't think they necessarily NEED an assault vehicle. Depending on what I'm facing, I would probably use them in a counter assault role supporting my Conscripts or bring them in on a Valk via Grav Crute.

 

The imagery of the latter puts a smile of my face lol

I picture the Grav Chutes on the Ogryns having a timed release setting....since the big lovable brutes won't remember to pull the chute before hitting the ground

[Akrim]

Now that is a creative list!

 

Yep timed release ripcord on Sentinel-size Grav chutes with a solid tuck & roll technique as back up

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Sadly as-per the new FAQ, you can't borrow Land Raiders anymore, so that option is gone. :/

Is that FAQ in black library's errata section? Where else is it published. Also, does it only affect battle brothers transports, or all transports?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Just on Facebook for now.

[WarriorFish]

They're also a draft, so it's not official yet though many like myself have taken to adopting them regardless. In this respect it's just that Battle Brothers can't start embarked on each other's transports.

[Akrim]

They're also a draft, so it's not official yet though many like myself have taken to adopting them regardless. In this respect it's just that Battle Brothers can't start embarked on each other's transports.

Im leery of the FB FAQ Drafts, the source is anonymous and some of the proposed amendments contradict themselves or directly the BRB. Alot of people pick/choose to follow a few while ignoring the rest.

 

Others are just on the wrong side of the crack pipe, esp the one grenade vs vehicles; seriously? Just for kicks? Is there now a grenade shortage in the 41st millenium? Dumb.

 

Moreover, if I have to play a game I want one rules set, not an additional 40 pages of "FAQ" rules changes. Give me a new edition, ill pay for it.

 

Not ranting at you Warriorfish, just speaking generally.

[CoffeeGrunt]

People whined for years for an FAQ. GW does an FAQ. People ignore it because it didn't go the way they wanted it to.  This fandom really is tough to deal with at times. :)

 

Something posted to Facebook is considered to be legally published, for one. For two, the "one grenade per assault" is only as dumb as, "alright you 49 men stand there, only I am allowed to throw this grenade in the Shooting Phase."

 

Not to mention that GW rules are already full of inconsistencies, so it's unsurprising their FAQs would be due to how bloated the ruleset is.

[Indefragable]

People whined for years for an FAQ. GW does an FAQ. People ignore it because it didn't go the way they wanted it to. This fandom really is tough to deal with at times.

Something posted to Facebook is considered to be legally published, for one. For two, the "one grenade per assault" is only as dumb as, "alright you 49 men stand there, only I am allowed to throw this grenade in the Shooting Phase."

Not to mention that GW rules are already full of inconsistencies, so it's unsurprising their FAQs would be due to how bloated the ruleset is.

For what it's worth, I believe [hope] part of the purpose of these FAQ's is to find the points of the game that are most confusing to the fanbase so that 8th Edition can be as clear as possible. If that truly is part of the intent, then it is a noble pursuit on GW's part.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Personally if 8th Edition is just another 'tweak' edition, I don't think it's going to do well.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Back to Ogryn/Bullgryn:

 

I've used Ogryn a few times. Usually 4 or (3 + a IC ) in a chimera to give my opponent something close up to worry about, usually with a rush of other chimeras (guardsmen or vets). It keeps my LRBtanks free for a bit. If it looks like it's gonna be drop pod incoming then they get fielded outside the chimera so that they can counter-charge.

 

Results have been mixed, but they rarely die fast and usually tie stuff up for a several turns at the very least.

 

I have a bunch and have toyed with the idea of fielding a maxed squad on foot with a commissar and priest or psyker for fun but minis gaming has slowed down quite a bit around here lately.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Running them with a priest seems like a really good idea. I'm just not a fan of the big smashy unit having to sit out a turn of combat, due to the lack of assault transports.  I'd rather just take Arjac's shieldbrothers and have a big smashy unit of hammernators in a Land Raider Crusader, which can put out more fire than a chimera, and hammernators hit harder, and can tank more damage, plus the land raider is an assault transport. The only thing about 'gryns is that they come in cheaper than a formation of 4 hammernators and a land raider.

[Emicus]

They're big, burly, fairly durable but weak Ledership.

 

​I always ran mine in the Rampart Detachment for Fearless, you also get Fear and Counter-Attack for the measly cost of 10 bullgryns and a command squad. It aint cheap but every game I took them they ran up and smashed things in the face until they died. C'tans, Space Marines, Necron Warriors... that type of stuff. Mauls are great because it gives you AP4, Concussive and wooping S7.. but the 5++ Buckler it's paired with is kinda crummy.

​I mixed 2 maul/buckler with 3 nadelauncher/slabshields. Depending on target/positioning/Look Out Sir it was either a 5++ or 3+ armour to keep them trucking along.

​If you wanna smash tournaments, stay the hell away, they're so expensive in points it's mind boggling. But for funsies they've done me proud time and time again.

​I re-iterate. They NEED leadership boosting somehow, Priests work fine and also confer other benefits (challenge denial, re-roll saves, etc)

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Buckler 5++ is in Combat only, right?

 

If only you could have Maul + Slab Shield. That would be my default choice. :)