RULES - Point Calculator

[simison]

This calculator operates best when using the most comparable canon unit/wargear to compare to. 

 

I divide the calculations into three broad fields: Attributes, Wargear, and Special Rules

 

Attributes

 

• 5 points (base cost) - Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Attacks, Leadership
• 10 points (base cost) - Strength, Toughness, Wounds, & Initiative

 

Wargear

 

Weapon Attributes

 

• 5 points (base cost) - Strength, Armour Penetration, and for every 6 inch difference in range (E.g. To add 12 inches to a ranged weapon should cost 10 points)

Weapon Special Rules

• 5 points - Grants Blast (3'), Master-Crafted, Pinning, Shell-Shocked
• (-5) points - Inflicts Specialist Weapon, Two-Handed
• 10 points - Grants Blind, Barrage, Concussive, Deflagrate, Duelist's Edge, Hammer of Wrath, Interceptor, Large Blast (5'), Missile Lock, Murderous Strike, Rad-Phage, Sudden Strike, Sweep Attack, Torrent, Twin-Linked
• (-10) points - Inflicts Cumbersome, Gets Hot, 
• 15 points - Grants Force, Haywire, Ignores Cover, Lance, Melta, Poisoned, Template
• (-15) points - Inflicts Unwieldy
• 20 points - Grants Armourbane, Fleshbane, Graviton, Instant Death, Shred, Sniper, Soul Blaze, Sunder
• 25 points - Grants Destroyer Weapons, Special Issue Ammunition, Wrecker
• 30 points - Grants Vortex

 

Special Rules 

 

Source can be either from a piece of wargear or a characteristic of the model/unit

 

• 5 points - Grants Adamantium Will, Counter-Attack, Deadly Aim, Precision Strike, Precision Shot, Rage, Skyfire, Stealth, Strafing Run
• (-5 points) - Inflicts Bulky
• 10 points - Grants Chosen Warriors, Deep Strike, Fear, Fateful Descent, Furious Charge, Fury of the Legion, Gun Them Down, Hatred, Jink, Night Vision, Onslaught, Rampage, Repel the Enemy, Sentry Defence System, Shield Wall, Shrouded, Split Fire, Strikedown, Sudden Strike, Supersonic, Tank Hunters,
• (-10) points - Inflicts Slow and Purposeful, Support Squad, Very Bulky
• 15 points - Grants Crusader, Fearless, Feel No Pain¹, Fleet, Hit and Run, Monster Hunter, Outflank, Power of the Machine Spirit, Rending, Sabotage!, Smash, Stubborn, Vector Dancer
• 20 points - Grants Daemon, Fatal Strike, Implacable Advance, Infiltrate, It Will Not Die, Move Through Cover, Preferred Enemy, Relentless
• (-20) points - Inflicts Damned, Extremely Bulky
• 25 points - Grants Command Tank, Psyker (Level 1), Eternal Warrior, Marked for Death, Skilled Rider, Scout, Veteran Tactics, Zealot
• 30 points -
• 35 points - 
• 40 points -
• 45 points - Grants Ferromantic Invulnerability

 

Protection

 

• 5 points - +1 Cover Save
• 10 points - +1 Armour Save
• 15 points - +1 Invulnerable Save, Hardened Armour

Vehicles

 

• 5 points - +1 Armour Value², Grants Inductor Charges
• (-5) points - Inflicts Lumbering Behemoth
• 10 points - +1 Hull Points
• 15 points - 
• 20 points - Grants Atomantic Shielding

 

 

[To be updated later...]

 

¹ Additional adjustments of either increasing or decreasing the FNP save should be 5 points for every point of difference. For example, a FNP (4+) would cost 20 points, instead of 15 points. 

 

² This number is obviously doubled when upgrading Side facings, since that is adding a total of 2 to the vehicle's armour value.

 

*Note all Attributes are on a progressive, not static, scale. Instead, all attributes operate on a D3 scale with the first two 'levels' equal to base cost. The next two 'levels' incur an additional 5 point cost. The two levels beyond that adds another 5 points for a total of a 10 point cost added to the base cost and so forth.

 

For example, to create a special meltagun with Strength 10 would add 10 points to its typical cost.

 

However, to make a Strength 8 boltgun would cost an extra 30 points to create. The upgrade to Strengths 5 & 6 would cost 5 points apiece for a total of 10 points. But the costs to upgrade to Strengths 7 & 8 would cost 10 points apiece for a total of 20 points plus the 10 points for levels 5 & 6, leading to a total of 30 points.

 

This also affects any Special Rule that operates on 'levels' such as Feel No Pain, Rending, etc. 

 

~~~~

 

Rule-crafting R/D

 

This is what I learned when I did a survey of the canon legions: "Okay, what's interesting is that half of the unique wargear are specifically built upon or given as an option to the more standard weapons. Anyway, that finished my run. Most common prices are 5 pts, 15 pts, and 20 pts. The Word Bearer's Burning Lore is the single 30 point example."

 

For relics, the range is 35 points to 50 points. Mode is 40 points. It's some food for thought as we move forward.

 

 

TS/RG - 35 points

DA/EC/IW/SWNL/IH/UM/DG/WB - 40 points

AL - 45 points

WS/IF/BA/WE/SoH/Sal - 50 points

 

Every legion, canon or noncanon, have three fixed points: one relic, one Primarch, and two Rite of Wars.

 

Beyond that, are three different areas that can vary widely from legion to legion: unique units, heroes, and wargear.

 

What I did was come up with a slot system: "1 - 2 - 2, is the basis, format being wargear, units, and characters with an additional 4 slots available."

 

Now, I have a minimum established for each of the three categories based on how the canon legions are arranged. So, every canon legion has at least one unique wargear. Every legion has at least two special units and so on.

 

The extra three slots go where you want them to go to help establish an underlying aspect of your legion's identity. For example, my legion, the Halcyon Wardens, have an underlying theme of 'Strength through Unity', while we're not a tech-heavy legion. So, I spent my slots on having more unique heroes and units and only have the single piece of wargear.

 

Calculator Template

 

 

Unique Unit/Character

 

Comparison Base: Canon Unit/Character being compared to (0 points)

 

Attributes

 

• [Example: +1 Weapon Skill (WS): 5 points]
• [Example: -1 Ballistic Skill (BS): (-5) points]

 

Total: 0 points

 

Wargear

 

• [Example: Close Combat Weapon with Master-Craft: 5 points]
• [Example: Close Combat Weapon with Specialist Weapon: (-5) points]

 

Total: 0 points

 

Special Rules

• [Example: Unit has Counter-Attack: 5 points]
• [Example: Unit has Bulky: (-5) Points]

 

Total: ? points

 

Total cost: [Add all points from Attributes, Wargear, and Special Rules] 0 points

 

Recommend overall cost: [Add total cost to the canon unit/character point total.] 0 points

 

Notes: 

 

• [This is for explanations behind the various aspects of the created unit/character and to ask questions about things one is unsure about.]

Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord Thørn

[Teetengee]

I am intrigued...

[Hesh Kadesh]

Things like this can be broken though; ie.

 

Praetor, Power Maul, Refractor Shield

 

WS7, I6 = +15pts

Destroyer = +25pts

AP2 = 10pts

Eternal Warrior = 20pts

 

Include a Ghost Razor ability cost on there, and you've got an instagib anything for 200pts. You need to be I7 or higher to stand a chance of winning. He's hitting first on 3's, rolling on Destroyer Table for wounds/hull points, ignoring armour saves, and if by some miracle you do survive, reduced to Initiative 1, and having to try and put 3 wounds on a 2+/5++ Eternal Warrior. 

 

I know it's only a use for a quick matrix, but guys, please don't see this as a character creator, this was simply Simison's private matrix to judge homebrew characters off; mine is very different, for example Weapon Skill is around +15pts. +1 to hit is +17% extra attacks hitting. On a duellist, that extra accuracy is necessary.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[MikhalLeNoir]

Things like this can be broken though; ie.

 

Praetor, Power Maul, Refractor Shield

 

WS7, I6 = +15pts

Destroyer = +25pts

AP2 = 10pts

Eternal Warrior = 20pts

 

Include a Ghost Razor ability cost on there, and you've got an instagib anything for 200pts. You need to be I7 or higher to stand a chance of winning. He's hitting first on 3's, rolling on Destroyer Table for wounds/hull points, ignoring armour saves, and if by some miracle you do survive, reduced to Initiative 1, and having to try and put 3 wounds on a 2+/5++ Eternal Warrior.

 

I know it's only a use for a quick matrix, but guys, please don't see this as a character creator, this was simply Simison's private matrix to judge homebrew characters off; mine is very different, for example Weapon Skill is around +15pts. +1 to hit is +17% extra attacks hitting. On a duellist, that extra accuracy is necessary.

Good thing is: if it is broken, we have you as next instance to point it out. But now we are able to at least make some "designs"

 

By the way, I will use your "design" for my char kelenteil^^

Edited August 1, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Doctor Perils]

Things like this can be broken though; ie.

 

Praetor, Power Maul, Refractor Shield

 

WS7, I6 = +15pts

Destroyer = +25pts

AP2 = 10pts

Eternal Warrior = 20pts

 

Include a Ghost Razor ability cost on there, and you've got an instagib anything for 200pts. You need to be I7 or higher to stand a chance of winning. He's hitting first on 3's, rolling on Destroyer Table for wounds/hull points, ignoring armour saves, and if by some miracle you do survive, reduced to Initiative 1, and having to try and put 3 wounds on a 2+/5++ Eternal Warrior. 

 

I know it's only a use for a quick matrix, but guys, please don't see this as a character creator, this was simply Simison's private matrix to judge homebrew characters off; mine is very different, for example Weapon Skill is around +15pts. +1 to hit is +17% extra attacks hitting. On a duellist, that extra accuracy is necessary.

Yeah, we know some combinations will be overpowered of course, and a good part of getting points that work is very much on a unit-per-unit basis + playtesting and more playtesting.

However, it's good for some of us (read, me) to have at least a basic idea of where to start.

 

 

So, yeah, thanks, Simison, for starting this up, and thanks Hesh for pointing out some of your own ways of doing it too :)

[Apothecary Meros]

I like this calculator. I may use this myself - I have a chapter of my own design in the works which would greatly benefit. Thank you, Lord Simison.

 

What of custom or unique rules? Do you think there could be a fair way of devising a calculator for these kinds of rule? For example, I have a rule for my work in progress of Meros which is as follows:

 

Iron Stomach: Any wounds caused by a weapon with the Melta or Lance special rule will never cause Instant Death against Meros.

 

A system of fitting a rule such as this into a category, such as 'survivability' in this instance with a particular points value is the first thing to come to my mind.

[Slips]

Well, that rule is essentially a very specific "Eternal Warrior" so just take whatever Eternal Warrior points up to be and reduce it appropriately.

[Apothecary Meros]

Fair enough.

[simison]

I'm aware of the limitations of my matrix. As you rightfully pointed out, Hesh, it operates in a vacuum, focused on the tactical as opposed to the strategic view. That's why I like to hear your opinions. 

 

Still, it serves a purpose for easy calibrating, so long as it's used more like guidelines as opposed to hard rules.

[simison]

I've added the D3 system. Is the explanation simple enough to understand?

[Apothecary Meros]

It looks good if you ask me.

[simison]

I've added a few more rules and a section devoted to saves.

[simison]

Alright, I've added most of the core rulebook's special rules (except for the likes of ATSKNF, Swarm, and a couple of others), and most of the special rules I found in HH books 1-3 & 5. 

 

How does it looks? Is there a special rule that should be here? Did I miss anything?

[Doctor Perils]

That's really great simison, thanks :)

[Apothecary Meros]

Indeed, truly marvellous.

 

I believe a rule for the Leman Russ tank is Lumbering Behemoth - which if I remember correctly limits a vehicle to 6" per turn.

 

Speaking of which, you could if you wanted, add points values for armour values and hull points if one were to want to create their own vehicle unit.

[simison]

Did you know that none of the 30k Leman Russes have that rule? 

 

I've started a vehicle section and will put in Lumbering Behemoth along with Induction Charger later when I have more time. I came up with the pointages by comparing the Contemptor Mortis with a normal Mortis and a Leman Russ Strike Squadron against a Leman Russ Assault Squadron.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Do you plan to make a point calculator for units as well?

[AlphariusOmegon108]

Do you plan to make a point calculator for units as well?

want

[simison]

I've added Inductor Charges & Lumbering Behemoth. 

 

Do you plan to make a point calculator for units as well?

 

What would be the difference?

[MikhalLeNoir]

You are the point calculator here. You tell me^^

 

So i am able to create a whole unit with it? Do I need to count the points for every single marine in the unit or do we have a group price?

[simison]

Hmmm, most of the special rules seemed to be bought once for the group as a whole, if I'm remembering how GW does it. The attributes would be on an individual basis, while some special rules, like Eternal Warrior, would be outright banned from groups.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Just imagined a special unit consisting of eternal warriors.

 

 

 

Uuuhhhh. So much power.....(lost)

[Apothecary Meros]

Just imagined a special unit consisting of eternal warriors.

Uuuhhhh. So much power.....(lost)

Well, with Matt Ward back at GW, it's only a matter of time until that's a reality... a truly horrifying reality.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Why can't they try to get Amdy Chambers back? Why Matt Ward????

 

 

 

Wwwwwhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

[Grifftofer]

It's fine we'll just have to get there first. We can put Eternal Warrior on a unit

of one wound models http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/msn-wink.gif