Balthamal Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'll bring this here since this is where the most discussion is going to come from and I was going to do a poll but the BB code isn't being helpful and I'm too tired to try thinking through so will have to go without. Any how, since the leak of the plastic Thousand Son (everyone is assuming Ahriman but I'm skeptical) a lot of talk has focused on how this is going to be the Calth sequel - not an unreasonable assumption given that the model is clearly "Legion" not 40K and the dead wolf on the base is in MK III armour. So with that tentatively agreed on what's peoples thoughts? I was going to offer the following: Very happy with Legion specific stuff - we should have more Keep it all generic so everyone can get involved with the action Legion specific stuff is fine for characters but keep the troops plain so the utility is there for others Me personally, I'm in the camp of keeping it all generic. I know that TS players (and in all liklihood Wolves players too) will be overjoyed with this but I firmly believe that NO Legion is worth having it's own box set and that 30K as a whole is better served by having a wider variety of models (that's assuming of course that there isn't a consul model included as with Calth) Granted I'm more than aware that SW/TS players have had a very raw deal in the HH so far with the delays to Inferno and having the book, Russ finished, Magnus next on the block and now a potential box set could be seen as ample compensation for that long wait and I don't begrudge them finally having something to smile about. However if there is more than just a specific HQ included I'm worried that 1) there'll be the same lazy sculpting as seen with the Deathwatch Box (the Eldar are gorgeous, the marines are boring stereotypical rubbish) and 2) the box won't be as successful as Calth which means we might not get another one - which is something I very much want to see - the more successful the conversion to plastic for the more common units means a better opportunity for the 30K community to grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'd prefer they kept it generic, and they would probably sell a lot more boxes if they did. Adding a few Legion specific "upgrade" parts here and there on the sprues would be a good idea on their part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'd very much hope that despoiler squads at least make the kit given wolves predilection for combat. This will make many a player very happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Keep it all generic so everyone can get involved with the action There are already legion specific upgrade packs and the characters would look better in resin, especially the most prominent players like Ahriman. I'm not even sure if the Thousand Sons and Space Wolf players will all be completely happy about it, because they won't be able to model a box as a single army: they'll have to mix'n'match stuff with other players, and if there are indeed several unit types (including assault and/or breachers) at least one side will end up not having the type they might have wanted. Also, what about those wolves who wanted mkIV (well, I suppose there's still B@C) or Thousand Sons who wanted mkIII - those won't be happy either, just like all the other legion players who wanted some cheap generic mkIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCelticRaven Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 waiting so i can get some lovely plastic mkIII deathguard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm guessing that they keep the rank and file troops generic, as making them legion specific will reduce sales volumes. My concern is around the Ahirman (or at the very least the 1k sons Sorcerror) Sprue that we've seen, and that its for 30k and the next major box is Prospsro. With a box like that, you need HQ choices that reflect the described forces - Space Wolves and Thousand Sons. Both of those Legions are aesthetically very different from every other Legion, which means we're in the realm of: 1) Have very specific Legion focused characters that will not be transferable to other forces. 2) Have very generic HQ choices that will look out of place in a Prospero setting. If the Sprue is meant for a 2nd Plastic HH mega box set on Prospero, then it's clearly going to be option number two. There's no way that anyone is going to be able to convert that mini to any other type of Librarian, especially if he's standing on a MkIII SW torso. At least with B@C the two characters could be viably painted to represent most of the Legions without having to do too much to the model. Colour me intrigued, but I'll reserve judgement until I have product in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The sorcerer / Arhirman may not nessecary be part of the upcoming heresy box set (I hope so as not having generic stuff is stupid) he could very well be part of some limited edition set or as a one time release like the tribune model a while back. The only other really hope of this is that in the Calth set both the HQs were on the same spure though this could mean nothing at all. If it is true being solely legion specific then curse you TS and SW you bunch of filthy witches and pawns of Horus :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 @ Balthamal. Good points well made. A character apiece with generic troops allowing FW to do the same set deals they did with B@C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Havinh not seen the T-Son. Could the legion bits be toned down or legion pad be swapoed for generic? Dead Wolves maybe the same although it could be passed off as a dead watch pack member/ sacrificial victim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm pretty sure the T-Son hasn't been fully confirmed for B@C2: Prospero Boogaloo, it could well be part of the new Tzeench range for 40k for all we know (though i does line up with Sad Panda's rumors of course). I'm fine with the characters being themed as long as the troops are generic. GW knows people are crying out for plastic MkII / III and it seems like this may well confirm it (what with that Dead pup on the base looking nice), hopefully there will be no additional details. Plus, really, why would they when FW already do some great legion upgrades for both of the legions. If anything this will come out just before/ the same time as Inferno (Book 7) and really just blast a hole in everyone who wanted the Wolves of Wizards wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I definitely prefer them keeping things generic. If this is indeed a model destined to be in the boxed set, then I hope it's only the HQ's that received the Legion treatment, otherwise this release will be completely useless to me and many others which would be unfortunate....and in my opinion, a mistake. I'm still holding out hope the leaked sorcerer/Ahriman model is simply a single/solo kit that will be sold separately that will be able to compliment the next box, assuming it indeed is based on Prospero. Which would be brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 @ Balthamal. Good points well made. A character apiece with generic troops allowing FW to do the same set deals they did with B@C I do strive for reasonable argument - I even manage to reach that lofty peak on occasion The TS is in the same clip together style as the characters from B@C so immediate customization is a big no no. Plus there's lots of scarab detailing on the torso and the stave is very much XV Legion. It could be converted but that's a hell of a job for what the end result would be. @Charlo Given the detail on the model I doubt very much it's Tzeentch 40K - there's nothing chaosy on there at all. And if you look at the left shoulder pad it's the symbol of the XV Legion - not the coiled serpent of Tzeentch that's commonly associated with them. They could change - plenty of other things have changed in the past year - but it's an outside bet right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StruManChu Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Just to throw some thoughts out there... As far as I'm aware, we still don't have any official 30k rules for Kurtha Sedd and Steloc Aethon, the 'characters' in B@C. Obviously these guys are kinda nobodies and don't really have a huge impact on the setting, so fair enough that FW wouldn't go out of their way to make rules for them. Ahriman is something else though. He's a first captain, in line with Sigismund, Sevatar, Khârn, etc. People are going to expect rules for him, and these will almost certainly appear in Inferno/Book VII. While I know there's probably a good deal of co-ordination going on between GW & FW around these releases, I'm sure a lot of people would be deeply disappointed at having to wait for the book to drop, so we may well discover (especially after the success of B@C), that the new box is actually a 30k starter set as well as a boxed game, much in the same way as Death Masque is for 40k with it's lovely full-kit rather than push-fit minis. Secondly, and this is pure, baseless speculation, but we still haven't seen any 30k Space Wolf heads from FW. They could well be in this box. I wouldn't be surprised to see a sprue for each Legion in the box to make it a bit more Prospero-esque. Thirdly, and this is the part that concerns me... We have reliable (Atia & Sad Panda, fwiw) rumour-mongers saying that Custodes and Sisters of Silence will be part of the new box game. Frankly, that cuts into the number of marines in the box, and I don't like that, or the idea of having to buy 'niche' stuff when B@C was such a good deal for generic troops and units. The only thing that remained consistent across all of the wishlisting for the second box since B@C dropped was plastic MkII/MkIII, so it may be that we end up getting is a box with Ahriman and the plastic MkII/MkIII 1K Sons vs. a Space Wolf unit & character, Custodes and SoS. At that point, I don't need that box, because the only thing I want is the plastic generic stuff. As an aside, given the difference in quality between FW's 30k Khârn and the new 40k that GW previewed yesterday, I'd rather not see plastic Custodes and SoS from GW. It's not that the 40k one isn't a good mini, but it's just not what it could be, IMHO, and for units as singular as those, they need to be pretty damn special. I don't know. Maybe GW/FW want to throw 1K Sons and Space Wolf players a bone (ha!) after making them wait so long for their legions to drop by giving them a box of their own, but in my eyes that'll be a wasted opportunity for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 That's more or less the crux of my sentiment - I don't begrudge anyone getting new shiny toys nor is it a case of "Well I haven't got anything so I'm going to complain" it's more the generalist thing. I mean I was disappointed they went with Calth as a set because at that time we were getting hammered with it but the fact they decided to broaden the appeal speaks volumes there. Hopefully they take the same approach here but we shall just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 B@C2: Prospero Boogaloo If this isn't the final name for the new boxset I will be deeply disappointed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Titus Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think it would be best for almost all of the miniatures to remain generic but also contain upgrades for Thousand Sons and Space Wolves. I don't know if this is what they did with Betrayal at Calth because i never bought it (The Thousand Sons upgrade kit was too costly, when combined with the rest, for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Runner Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Interestingly, the (specific) sorceror is on a single sprue, whereas the (generic) Calth characters were together. This could be like Death Masque, with the two character sprues in there for flavour, but I'm wondering if this might be a separate release? I'd prefer the sorceror to be separate so that there's more fun stuff in the main box, and they could even put the same contemptor and characters in - yes it'd be lazy and boring, but they are generic. Looking forward to the Prospero book being out as it means we're getting closer to a proper Dark Angel release :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elzender Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 While I would prefer a complete generic set, the characters being legion specific with the rest generic wouldn't be too bad. The sorceror looks good to me and it won't be like it's the first mini I don't really need that I get, and if it's anything like the first set the other units will make up for it. Regarding custodes and SoS, I'm skeptic about them, I don't think FW would let GW take it from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 just hoping for custodes & sisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I think a plastic Ahriman isn't a box breaker, and I imagine the rest of the box will be generic. In the way they did the praetor/chaplain sprue, they might just have two specific sprues and a bunch of multiuse models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 The Ahriman model is on a lone sprue, he might just be a special model in the box then released in his own clampack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Also thinking that perhaps this will be a release similar to the limited edition Chaplain that came with Dark Vengeance. That would be cool. Two generic armies in the box based on Prospero and a special edition Sorcerer, whom will also be released individually. Yup, that's totally it. I convinced myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm split here. I see the very obvious logic in having generic Troops. It makes sense, most bang for your buck. My RG and IW would be happy with that But the Wolf in me wants MOAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm split here. I see the very obvious logic in having generic Troops. It makes sense, most bang for your buck. My RG and IW would be happy with that But the Wolf in me wants MOAR Very much win - win for you then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 I'm split here. I see the very obvious logic in having generic Troops. It makes sense, most bang for your buck. My RG and IW would be happy with that But the Wolf in me wants MOAR Very much win - win for you then Pretty much. If it's generic AND marks II or III, my Iron Warrior project is going off the chain If it's Wolves, the my Vlka Fenryka project is going off the chain. At this point, I'm basically waiting to see how long until my wallet realizes it's living on borrowed time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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