bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 "Spearhead of his vanguard" is a little unnecessary. Plus in the second paragraph, "world's" wants to lose that apostrophe, while "these gods claims" needs one. Actually, I'd swap it to "the claims Travier made for his gods". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Thanks blunt, those changes will be implemented. So, here are my suggestions for battles that can take place and be focussed upon in this book. - The battle of Gidion Rift. The largest naval battle of the Insurrection thus far and first major engagement of the Blood Crusade fought between a large section of the Crimson Lions fleet-that of the Leonic Auxilia and the 'Serkers of Uran, EW, Cognis and traitor Imperial Army fleets. It's a savage battle but the Crimson Lions and co. are defeated by the traitors. - The invasion of the Blood Stars. An invasion of a Mechanicum vassal of the Dominion by the Cognis, Corpora Ferro and House Sardok. The inavasion culminates in the battle of Askusia Tertius where a force of Crimson Lions and Mechanicum allied with House Atreis fight the traitors in a Paramar esq siege battle. I'm thinking that the loyalists are forced to fall back but they destroy the tech the Cognis were trying to get to before they do, making it a pyrrhic victory for the traitors. - The battle of Arrian The Crimson Lions and their allies have been forced right back to the outskirts of the Mycenae system. Turning and fighting the Crimson Lions and Leonic Auxilia turn and fight the 'Serkers&allies on Arrian. It ends up a bloody draw but one that is a strategic victory for the Lions as it halts the traitor advance into the Dominion's core systems. - The battle of Caraxes Point A large battle that is both a void and land engagement. The Crimson Lions and the Leonic Auxilia have gone on the offensive and are hitting back at the traitors to try and drive them out of the Dominion. During this battle they are aided by a force of Void Eagles led by Yucahu and it ends a pyhrric loyalist victory, with the traitors falling back via Cadia, attacking weakened worlds as they go. - The battle of Cadia As Raktra and Travier go into the Eye of Terror, the traitors launch a diversionary attack on the world of Cadia, defended by an assortment of loyalists the backbone of which is two Clans of Crimson Lions, Clans Askar and Karakal. Eventually, a force of some 70,000 Crimson Lions led by Hectation and various other loyalists such as the Iron Bears arrive and attack the traitors in the rear, forcing a retreat but not before Raktra either ascends to or begins the process of ascending to deamonhood. Now in between all these "major" engagements there will be lots of smaller or at least less notable ones as the traitors attack worlds within the Dominion. However, those aren't important enough to merit much attention and so I believe the ones above are the battles we should focus on, with only relatively brief mentions of smaller ones. What do people think? Too many, just right, too little? Does anyone have their own idea for a battle that they would like to get a mention? Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 My draft has the Traitors flee Cadia before most of the relieving Loyalists can get to grips with them. Hec is not going to be pleased. Then again, it's not his men who die in the phosphex attack, except for any fast units he sends with the mechanised first wave. Come to think of it, the incoming Lions could be the factor that makes the Traitors switch from fighting on two fronts to cutting their losses and abandoming the siege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 My draft has the Traitors flee Cadia before most of the relieving Loyalists can get to grips with them. Hec is not going to be pleased. Then again, it's not his men who die in the phosphex attack, except for any fast units he sends with the mechanised first wave. Come to think of it, the incoming Lions could be the factor that makes the Traitors switch from fighting on two fronts to cutting their losses and abandoming the siege. No his men don't with the exception of the Inroiar who will be in the vanguard as well as possibly Clan Tauran. However, he wants to kill Raktra and slaughter the 'Serkers for what they've done to the Dominion and kill Alexos for being the arch traitor. So he will still annoyed to put it mildly that they got away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Uhm, what was with the previous draft where travier wanted hec to transform into a daemon primarch. Making him so angry that his daemonshard awakes and either he kills raktra and ascends daemonhood or the other way around. So travier wins. If the previous happens then the imperial forces are tremendous weakened. And i am not sure but i faintly remeber that we discussed if the shard was removed through dark arts and ised to empower raktras ascension and we left hec back missing. For Hec entering the eye I can see various problems coming from his shard. I can't see him not becoming corrupted. As the power shard will respond to the warp. I mean: look at fulgrim who was controlled by a sword. Here we have part of a bloodthirster inside of a primarch. Especially does it empower him if he loses it. So going into the eye is a bad idea honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 @Mikhal: Only Raktra and Travier go into the Eye. Hec is leading a force of Lions to break the Siege of Cadia. So he won't be going into the Eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Is Alexos' ultimate responsibility for the Insurrection widely known? I'd figure that as with Lorgar, most of the Loyalist Primarchs are unaware of it until the Chaotic stuff comes to the fore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Is Alexos' ultimate responsibility for the Insurrection widely known? I'd figure that as with Lorgar, most of the Loyalist Primarchs are unaware of it until the Chaotic stuff comes to the fore. Given the whole Night of the Wolf deal that goes on between Hectarion and Alexos, I doubt he would know but he'd suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Cone to think of it, what if the Bears are able to convey the message from Cadia that the Primarchs aren't among the besiegers. And Hec's decision is to pursue them into the Eye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Well the eye.of terra going inside is new. When we discussed the blood crusade before they slaughtered the lions amd hec and rsktra fight amd travier mumbling some chaotic stuff. Was a close fight. Hecs shard wanted to break lose set the power free. That is what travier waited for. He intesified his summons and then am explosion. And then there stood a new daemon primarch and first it was not known who is it. But as the monster drew his sword( a grinder) it was known that it was rsktra. Hec was nowhere to be seen and i know we even discussed that he might be dead but later concluded that he was blasted of and retrieved by his lions. The traitors got what they came from and left. The dominion burning. The lions heavily injured. That was what we discussed togheter. Amd it made perfectly sense. Why skip it? And as it was a surprise attack and the lions often fought on the forefront of every battlefield, at home weren't that much.lions. and hec made it just in time with a tiny.bit of his.forces. I just question why we decide things.and then after half a year completly revamp it without second thought. This is nothing personal, no rant or something like that. But those things happend a lot. O know that we are an evolving project amd nothing os ever save.for change. Bit tossing away old ideas without question is a thing I don't like to be honest. I prefer to built on the ideas we had, cuz we have put thpught amd energy into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I remember them going into the Eye being discussed a few months back. Indeed, I wasn't aware that there was another take on how it could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 We discussed the idea but I don't think we ever agreed on it completely. Yes the shard wants Hec to lose it utterly but it's such an integral part of his character that I'm not entirely comfortable with it being transferred to Raktra, particularly seeing as the only reason the Emps left that shard in was because to remove it he'd have needed to obliterate Hec as a personality(like he did to Horus). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) We discuss it and we left with your statent that you wamt to think on the removement of the shard. Which implies that you were okay with the things we developed before. And now nothing is left from.it completly removed. That is frustrating. Edited August 27, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Well, I don't know what we can really do about that now. I guess the conversation shifted to a bunch of PM conversations among us and gradually moved in that direction. Cadia now feels to me like too obvious a place for the Primarchs to duel, as it would seem too much like a preview of Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) We discuss it and we left with your statent that you wamt to think on the removement of the shard. Which implies that you were okay with the things we developed before. And now nothing is left from.it completly removed. That is frustrating. Before all that about removing the shard etc. Yes I was okay with it. So I think we should rethink Cadia so that it's more of a meld of the previous developments and bluntblade's version as I agree with you that discarding all previous material is a bit silly when there's nothing wrong with most of it. So blunt, while I work on the fluff for the build up of to the Blood Crusade, would you be able to turn your mind to trying to incorporate the previous fluff about Cadia into the new version? As we're doing that, Raktra I don't know how complete the 'Serkers fluff is. Could you post what is finalized either on a seperate thread or here? It would be kind of helpful to know how complete it is. Also, Raktra and AO(as well as everyone else but principally you two). Are the battles of the Blood Crusade looking ok to your eyes?(Cadia excepted as we're still working to try and find out what exactly happens and how to bring together the two versions we have). Final point. simison, you're overall project lead. Is Unbroken an ok tital for this book? Or would you rather it ended in -tion like the titles of the others do? Edited August 27, 2016 by Sigismund229 MikhalLeNoir 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hold on, so what are we working in? Are we reverting to Cadia bring wrecked and Hectarion and Raktra fighting there? Because if the goal isnt to reach the Eye of Terror, attacking Cadia makes much less sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 How's this - Cadia is used to drive Hec into discarding most of his tactical sense and taking a small force of Lions in pursuit, while the rest make for Cadia. Travier orchestrates this to allow him to catch them and pit him against Raktra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hold on, so what are we working in? Are we reverting to Cadia bring wrecked and Hectarion and Raktra fighting there? Because if the goal isnt to reach the Eye of Terror, attacking Cadia makes much less senseWhat I'd like you to work on is trying to merge the two versions of Cadia. I realise that parts of them clash. But I feel it would be best if we can try and bring the two together rather than just dumping all the work that went into the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) I realised that after my initial post. I've got suggestions in the second Edited August 27, 2016 by bluntblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Well as travier has the planning of the traitor side( i assume he has it) he could play a cat and mouse game with hec. Luring him deeper amd deeper to the edge. So cadia is attacked and them the primarchs leave and finally battle at prosan. Which is the last planet before entering the eye of terror. So you could have the cadia battle taking place and shift the previous layout of cadia battle( birth of the new bloodthirster) to prosan as there travier thinks the powers of the warp are strong enough and he assumes that hec will catch the bait. Edited August 27, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Which Hec will. So. While the 'Serkers and Lions main strength beats the everloving :cuss out of each other on Cadia, the primarchs drawn closer and closer to the EoT and on Prosan, two relatively small forces clash while Hec and Raktra fight(maybe Hec fights Alexos too when Raktra ascends and Hec realises what is happenig, cos hes seen it happen before, and tries to stop it?). However, Hec gets downed and badly wounded so the CL launch charge to recover him? And then we could toy with confusion. Perhaps Alex hears contradictory reports. Hec is dead. Thzn he hears Hec survived and killed Raktra begkre finally learning the truth when a badly wounded Hec talks to him via hololith and says something like "The Lions stand bloodied but unbroken". Hec attacking them could be like when Guilliman attacks Lorgar&Angron in Betrayer except Travier planned it where Lorgar didn't. Edited August 27, 2016 by Sigismund229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Just make it simple. An explosion and only rsktra is standing there. No hec. If hec would fight travier amd then rsktra is there, the chances of hec surviving this is minimal. A dead primarch is to much of a trophy. Nut if there is no sign of hec they had to withdraw. Either because they have reached what they wanted ( a primarch became a daemonorince amd the other dead) or the lions habe driven the main forces of cadia and are heading for prosan. I would prefer the first as it sjows how powerful the insurrectiontts are and with the powers of chaos they are even stronger. In the epilogue a detschement of lions could arrive mourning for their primarch but under apile if dust or a crushed mountain they find the lion. Not dead yet, hurt but unbroken> credits roll Edited August 27, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) Which is why I suggested that the Crimson Lions recover Hec(at great cost) and retreat from Prosan but then Raktra and Travier need to fall back as their legions were defeated on Cadia and the entire pissed off might of the Crimson Lions is coming to get them. Either way. blunt could you start writing this version of Cadia? Edited August 27, 2016 by Sigismund229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Betrayal is the name of the first book, so we aren't limited to -tion words. That said, I think Escalation is a bitter fit, because the climax of this campaign is the Ascension of Raktra. While the Traitors suffer a tactical defeat at the hands of the Lions, Chaos scores a strategic victory. And the Loyalists are aware of Travier's responsibility for damaging the Imperial Webway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund229 Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 I thought the name of our first book was Insurrection? Then Escalation it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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