36 replies to this topic

[Mazryonh]

Note to the moderators: I don't know if this is the right section since it deals with 40k videogames, but not any specific one.

 

Relic Entertainment started the trend of execution/finishing moves in melee combat way back in 2004 with Dawn of War 1.  This has continued with Dawn of War 2 and Space Marine.  Even non-Relic games in the 40k universe have had execution moves, such as the Space Hulk PC game series or the Eternal Crusade MMO. 

 

How important has the inclusion of these moves been to your enjoyment of 40k video games?  You can see an odd video below comparing the ones from Eternal Crusade to Space Marine by someone who clearly likes the latter more:

 

 

To me, the finishing moves help to set the "grimdark" atmosphere of the 40k universe, but with too many unique units and match-ups you end up with too much work for the overworked animators (later DoW games and expansions lacked those moves for several units, for instance).  Most enemies in those games get killed by shooting attacks rather than melee attacks anyway.

 

Edit: You can even see execution moves in the 40k Chess spin-off, called Regicide.

 

Edited by Mazryonh, 23 September 2016 - 02:52 AM.

[Scribe]

1. This cements how...behind, Eternal Crusade is.

2. Space Marine was : METAL.

3. To answer your question, for such a cinematic (or what it wants to be) game, 40K needs these, its quite important to me. :]

Edited by Scribe, 17 September 2016 - 04:03 AM.

[The Unseen]

I didn't care, until Space Marine showed me how awesome you can make a regenerating health bar. Normally, "let me cower behind this box while I wipe the jam of my face". Instead, low health? GO PUNCH A HERETICS FACE OFF. Absolutely great for 40k.

[Quixus]

I didn't care, until Space Marine showed me how awesome you can make a regenerating health bar. Normally, "let me cower behind this box while I wipe the jam of my face". Instead, low health? GO PUNCH A HERETICS FACE OFF. Absolutely great for 40k.

That certainly was a cool mechanic and very fitting for 40K but in general after you have seen the animation a couple of times, you just anxiously await when you can continue playing.

 

The animations look cool and they add to the immersion in space marine as well as the various DoW titles, but I think proper animations during the fight are much more important. It really annoys me when the screen shows me how a sword moves through an enemy bnut there is no damage. A parry or dodge animation in that case would be much better.

[Dorn Lysander]

I think they're quite a peculiar thing, if i'd never had them I wouldn't be overly bothered, but having seen my Space Marine cleave drive his chainsword upwards through an Orks abdomen with blood splattering all over my screen I can't help but feel it's very important to immersing me in the experience.

[Soldier of Dorn]

God those kids at the beginning of that video sound creepy.

 

...

 

Carry on.

[Lay]

The finishing moves in the original Dawn of War are crazy elaborate. Even units that should stay out of close combat have some seriously badass animations, such as the Warp Spider doing martial arts moves while teleporting back and forth.

 

In terms of gameplay though, I'd say the new Doom game does them best. Quick and brutal.

[SanguiniusReborn]

In terms of gameplay though, I'd say the new Doom game does them best. Quick and brutal.

Oh-ho-ho-ho-ho, yes. I do so love indulging my inner Flesh Tearer with those Glory Kills, RIP AND TEAR.

[Kaptain Von]

I barely even notice them in RTS games, since I'm generally zoomed out so I can see as much of the battlefield as possible.

 

I haven't played Space Marine, but I imagine they'll get on my nerves if they trigger during complex combats. I don't mind having my flow broken for things like grappling or planting melta bombs, but I resent it happening for every third or fourth dude in a mob of six hundred odd dudes.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I think it depends on the situation for me. I think the animations should be more elaborate the higher you go in rarity of target - Gabriel Angelos killing his five thousandth Ork Slugga Boy should be quick and brutal, nothing fancy or time-consuming, but a Tactical or Scout Marine getting the killing blow in on a Warboss should be flashy (and maybe even flashier than equals dueling). It also depends on the situation - if it's towards the end of the fighting in that area, I'm more likely to be okay with it. That being said, either way I think they're cooler than not having them at all, though I do wish you could adjust the frequency in-game (even turning them off if you so chose).

[KhorneHunter57x]

I barely even notice them in RTS games, since I'm generally zoomed out so I can see as much of the battlefield as possible.
 
I haven't played Space Marine, but I imagine they'll get on my nerves if they trigger during complex combats. I don't mind having my flow broken for things like grappling or planting melta bombs, but I resent it happening for every third or fourth dude in a mob of six hundred odd dudes.

In Space Marine, you trigger them yourself - it's not automatic.  Plus, you (usually) need to stun the target first, so there's a somewhat natural lead-in.

However, they are how you regenerate health, so they are somewhat forced upon you.

[Frater Cornelius]

Single player games will always be graphically ahead of MMOs. Frankly, I consider most finishing moves overblown and useless. In combat your primary goal is to kill or disable the opponent before he kills you. Doing a ballerina impression doesn't really help. If you use finishing moves, make them quick and to the point or make them elaborate but few and far between.

[Volt]

Space Marine and DOW 2 did them right. EC, well, like with everything in EC it's just wrong or off, and DOW 1 was ridiculously elaborate at times. Although I barely noticed them, because my space marine heroes never killed bloodthristers. My first thought when I see an enemy hero or monster in an RTS isn't "OOoh my HQ will duel him". It's "hit him with enough artillery that not even a Dark Eldar Archon could resurrect".

[Sete]

1. This cements how...behind, Eternal Crusade is.
2. Space Marine was : METAL.
3. To answer your question, for such a cinematic (or what it wants to be) game, 40K needs these, its quite important to me. :]

On a fast paced pvp environment a slow and elaborated execution will get you killed. Even now the fast ones if no care is taken will get you killed. It's a moment where you are vulnerable and have no chance of defending yourself. EC executions are fine as they are. Quickly done just as it would be on a battlefield in the middle of a fight. You won't be in the middle of a battle with grenades lascannons tanks bolt guns and flying :cussing eldar gloating over a defeated foe.

Yeah it was great on SM where the world froze around you. Every NPC was admiring you blade work.

Edited by Sete, 17 September 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Olis]

I think kill-animations are a suitable way of increasing or emphasising the brutality of the characters doing it - specifically in Space Marine. I remember the first time I saw Titus do a curb-stomp on an Ork. The thrill of seeing the character I controlled in the game suddenly doing something I'd expect to see a space marine do was fantastic. The same went for the evisceration animation and the others. These pre-set moves, while eventually same-y, were a joy to behold - especially considering the inherent game mechanic tied into using them.  

[Ovidius Incertus]

Yes and no.

 

On the one hand, the brutal overkill is an essential hallmark of the 40k universe.  On the other, I imagine a good number of Marines out there (save your Flesh Tearers, Bangles gone bloody, some Chaos types, etc.) would simply be in for the most efficient kill to move on to the next enemy.  I find it hard to believe that an Ultramarine, for example, would waste ammo or time mutilating an enemy who's already down.  A Flesh Tearer, on the other hand....

[helterskelter]

You can actually stop executions in EC provided you're quick enough to save your buddy, failing that it just makes you a prime target if you're not situationally aware, and barely worth the extra 100xp (which can be obtained via the ultimate combo of marksman:50xp, headshot:30xp and finished downed target:20xp)

[Sete]

But I like to stab them while they are on the floor.

[Scribe]

 

1. This cements how...behind, Eternal Crusade is.
2. Space Marine was : METAL.
3. To answer your question, for such a cinematic (or what it wants to be) game, 40K needs these, its quite important to me. :]

On a fast paced pvp environment a slow and elaborated execution will get you killed. Even now the fast ones if no care is taken will get you killed. It's a moment where you are vulnerable and have no chance of defending yourself. EC executions are fine as they are. Quickly done just as it would be on a battlefield in the middle of a fight. You won't be in the middle of a battle with grenades lascannons tanks bolt guns and flying :cussing eldar gloating over a defeated foe.

Yeah it was great on SM where the world froze around you. Every NPC was admiring you blade work.

 

 

Eh, I'm with you on that but EC doesnt look fast at all, and they could have easily had 'gib' deaths that match the level of awesome in Space Marine, its 2016!

[Sete]

1. This cements how...behind, Eternal Crusade is.
2. Space Marine was : METAL.
3. To answer your question, for such a cinematic (or what it wants to be) game, 40K needs these, its quite important to me. :]

On a fast paced pvp environment a slow and elaborated execution will get you killed. Even now the fast ones if no care is taken will get you killed. It's a moment where you are vulnerable and have no chance of defending yourself. EC executions are fine as they are. Quickly done just as it would be on a battlefield in the middle of a fight. You won't be in the middle of a battle with grenades lascannons tanks bolt guns and flying :cussing eldar gloating over a defeated foe.

Yeah it was great on SM where the world froze around you. Every NPC was admiring you blade work.

Eh, I'm with you on that but EC doesnt look fast at all, and they could have easily had 'gib' deaths that match the level of awesome in Space Marine, its 2016!

It's better now. In my opinion ofc. I have been playing the game since day 1.

[Thedarkprincesnun]

I like them alot
But that could be me being a dead space fan boy and loving the finishing moves in that game

[Volt]

 

1. This cements how...behind, Eternal Crusade is.
2. Space Marine was : METAL.
3. To answer your question, for such a cinematic (or what it wants to be) game, 40K needs these, its quite important to me. :]

On a fast paced pvp environment a slow and elaborated execution will get you killed. Even now the fast ones if no care is taken will get you killed. It's a moment where you are vulnerable and have no chance of defending yourself. EC executions are fine as they are. Quickly done just as it would be on a battlefield in the middle of a fight. You won't be in the middle of a battle with grenades lascannons tanks bolt guns and flying :cussing eldar gloating over a defeated foe.

Yeah it was great on SM where the world froze around you. Every NPC was admiring you blade work.

 

Huh? The enemy didn't suddenly stop attacking you in Space Marine when performing an execution. Killing the 'ard enemies would possibly stun the surrounding foes (or using a thunder hammer), but you can still quite easily end up with a sword in your back if you take too long to chainsword a shoota.

[Cryptix]

Space Marine and DOW 2 did them right. EC, well, like with everything in EC it's just wrong or off, and DOW 1 was ridiculously elaborate at times. Although I barely noticed them, because my space marine heroes never killed bloodthristers. My first thought when I see an enemy hero or monster in an RTS isn't "OOoh my HQ will duel him". It's "hit him with enough artillery that not even a Dark Eldar Archon could resurrect".

Wha.... .

How do you resist! No wonder I can't beat the 5th mission on Space Marine campaign!

[Mazryonh]

God those kids at the beginning of that video sound creepy.

 

...

 

Carry on.

 

Is that because they remind you of something 40k-related?  Maybe what Nurglings might sound like?

 

I didn't care, until Space Marine showed me how awesome you can make a regenerating health bar. Normally, "let me cower behind this box while I wipe the jam of my face". Instead, low health? GO PUNCH A HERETICS FACE OFF. Absolutely great for 40k.

 

Because the Emperor's Zeal making you healthier is better than chewing gum for the same:

 

 

The finishing moves in the original Dawn of War are crazy elaborate. Even units that should stay out of close combat have some seriously badass animations, such as the Warp Spider doing martial arts moves while teleporting back and forth.

 

In terms of gameplay though, I'd say the new Doom game does them best. Quick and brutal.

 

Duke Nukem Forever did "quick and brutal executions" in First Person View before Doom 2016 did. But I do actually miss DoW1's wide variety of melee and execution animations.  DoW2 by contrast is missing a lot of melee animations.  The Ogryns in DoW2 have just one melee attack animation compared to their DoW1 counterparts, which is quite boring.  The Chaos Heretics from DoW2 are missing knockdown and execution animations, so the developers just gave them enough weapon skill to outfight Eldar Banshees instead, which makes little sense.

 

Yes and no.

 

On the one hand, the brutal overkill is an essential hallmark of the 40k universe.  On the other, I imagine a good number of Marines out there (save your Flesh Tearers, Bangles gone bloody, some Chaos types, etc.) would simply be in for the most efficient kill to move on to the next enemy.  I find it hard to believe that an Ultramarine, for example, would waste ammo or time mutilating an enemy who's already down.  A Flesh Tearer, on the other hand....

 

I can see Orks doing that because it would show just how willing they are to get their hands bloody on the way to becoming a Boss.  Ultramarines might still do that to show the Enemies of Man the meaning of the Emperor's Wrath up close and personal (bolter headshots are all well and good but don't have the same morale impact on the enemy like Titus' execution moves might).  Even Eldar Aspect Warriors might do the same except as part of making a Sacrifice to Khaine, like the Imperium's Death Cult Assassins do with regards to ritualizing their kills during combat.

 

I like them alot
But that could be me being a dead space fan boy and loving the finishing moves in that game

 

The first Dead Space game doesn't let the player character do executions moves most of the time, not like in Space Marine.  If you win a grappling contest in that game, you get the Necromorph off Isaac and break off one of its parts in the process, but the Necromorph normally can still fight afterwards.  By contrast, most Necromorphs have finishing moves they can perform on Isaac instead.

[Volt]

 

Space Marine and DOW 2 did them right. EC, well, like with everything in EC it's just wrong or off, and DOW 1 was ridiculously elaborate at times. Although I barely noticed them, because my space marine heroes never killed bloodthristers. My first thought when I see an enemy hero or monster in an RTS isn't "OOoh my HQ will duel him". It's "hit him with enough artillery that not even a Dark Eldar Archon could resurrect".

Wha.... .

How do you resist! No wonder I can't beat the 5th mission on Space Marine campaign!

 

Rule number one of real time strategies. Explosives are love, and Artillery is cupid.

 

Although granted, my introduction to the RTS/RTT genre as a kid was Blitzkrieg, so I've always played such games far more like an Iron Warrior than the other Chapters. Big guns never tire.

Edited by Volt, 07 October 2016 - 07:06 AM.