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How important are execution moves to you in 40k video games?


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#26
Mazryonh

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After a bit of digging, it turns out that even Relic Entertainment in their early days had an execution move that proved too grimdark for one of their 40k RTS games. 

 

 

This trailer features an execution move starting at 0:11 - 0:14 that was censored in the actual released version of Dark Crusade.  I don't think Relic Entertainment has ever resorted to similar censorship since, but given that the released game was already rated for Mature Audiences, the censorship seems unnecessary to me. 

 

For those of you who want to see more of that Necron Lord at the end of that trailer, you can watch this:

 


Edited by Mazryonh, 07 January 2017 - 04:57 AM.


#27
Marshal_Roujakis

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That was a Wraith, not a Necron Lord... I should know, i still mod the game :P

 

As for execution moves, less elaborate the better, completely removing it, not really debilitating, but pretty disappointing...

best way is to cause a knockback or a stun around the character before it happens, or have an Invulnerability period while it's happening and keep it within the 2 second margin similar to Skyrim... that way you could get back into the action and not get outmaneuvered or outflanked...

 

So quick synckills like a quick beheading, punching your weapon straight through the enemies gut, a stab through the skull, or in the case of Dreadnoughts, a quick grab then crunch...

 

I don't understand why they have to make it overly elaborate, and in the case of Skyrim, you can only do Synckills when there are no other enemies in your immediate area... obviously in Space Marines, that's hard to work out, but you could apply that to RTS games, where if it's the last guy you have to kill, you make the kill elaborate...


'No matter the laurels of victory, no matter the glories others may seek. We are Space Marines, the Adeptus Astartes, the Angels of Death! And more than this.' he said, his voice dropping quiet. 

'We are Black Templars. Victory is its own reward.' - High Marshal Helbrecht - 'The Crusader' - Crusade to the Ghoul Stars -

 

Spoiler

 

The Vengeance Crusade Thread


#28
Mazryonh

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That was a Wraith, not a Necron Lord... I should know, i still mod the game tongue.png

 

I edited my post to refer to the Necron Lord at the end of the trailer. 

 

As for execution moves, less elaborate the better, completely removing it, not really debilitating, but pretty disappointing...

best way is to cause a knockback or a stun around the character before it happens, or have an Invulnerability period while it's happening and keep it within the 2 second margin similar to Skyrim... that way you could get back into the action and not get outmaneuvered or outflanked...

I think the developers behind Space Marine and Eternal Crusade already thought of that, because player characters don't stop taking damage from enemies while performing executions in those games.  So it's a gamble.  If you perform the executions in the right situations, you get a payoff, but if you let others get the drop on you, you get killed. 

 

I don't understand why they have to make it overly elaborate, and in the case of Skyrim, you can only do Synckills when there are no other enemies in your immediate area... obviously in Space Marines, that's hard to work out, but you could apply that to RTS games, where if it's the last guy you have to kill, you make the kill elaborate...

The "overly elaborate" part is to increase the grimdark factor and make it a little plausible in some cases.  How does a Force Commander believably kill a Bloodthirster by hitting its ankles enough times?  It can't believably do that, so Relic Entertainment gave the Force Commander an animation that makes him jump on top of the Bloodthirster's head and then hammer it into the ground. 



#29
Wargamer

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The only thing I hated more than the executions in Dawn of War were the knock-down mechanics. Oh look, that Chaos Lord I really, REALLY need to murder with all my guns is stabbing a Scout and therefore is totally immune to a Land Raider's lascannons now for some reason! Utterly stupid mechanic, should never have been included.

 

Eternal Crusade? Not played it, but from the gameplay footage I've watched executions just seem to make you stand in the open for half an hour and give the other team free kills. Long, dull and utterly pointless. Take them out of the game.

 

Now Space Marine, that's a game with executions done right! First off, it's singleplayer so you don't penalise yourself for doing it (executions weren't in the multiplayer mode). Secondly, there's a genuine reason for doing it - you get health back. Third, they're swift and violent; you can't just activate the animation then go make a cup of tea like in some other games I could mention.

 

Execution animations done right are quick, satisfying rewards. Executions done wrong are drawn out, unwelcome breaks from gameplay that actively punish you for doing them. 40K games almost exclusively go with the latter.


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#30
SanguiniusReborn

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Rule number one of real time strategies. Explosives are love, and Artillery is cupid.

Although granted, my introduction to the RTS/RTT genre as a kid was Blitzkrieg, so I've always played such games far more like an Iron Warrior than the other Chapters. Big guns never tire.


Amen Brother Volt, few things are as satisfying as bringing the rain down upon the enemy and/or their base in a hellish barrage of high-explosive murder. In Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath, when playing as the Brotherhood of Nod I delighted at sneaking multiple squadrons of Spectres (a fast moving Artillery piece equipped with cloaking devices) into positions around my opponent's base to launch crippling precision bombardments before swiftly retreating back into the shadows, laughing maniacally as my opponent struggles to react.

The C&C franchise was my first experience with RTS games, although I had played and enjoyed games with similiar strategic aspects to them before, god I miss that series...

Back to the actual topic though, I feel that execution moves add a very satisfying reward for playing well and can also work well as a gameplay mechanic, like in For Honor, if you manage to pull off an execution move on an enemy player it has two effects, 1; it disables other enemy players' ability to revive said fallen teammate, meaning they have to wait for respawn (with a slightly longer timer if I recall), and 2; it automatically replenishes a portion of your health bar, allowing you to potentially continue fighting to capitalise on the enemy team's sudden number disadvantage rather than retreating to a friendly control point to heal.

Edited by SanguiniusReborn, 01 February 2017 - 07:20 PM.

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#31
Volt

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Rule number one of real time strategies. Explosives are love, and Artillery is cupid.

Although granted, my introduction to the RTS/RTT genre as a kid was Blitzkrieg, so I've always played such games far more like an Iron Warrior than the other Chapters. Big guns never tire.


Amen Brother Volt, few things are as satisfying as bringing the rain down upon the enemy and/or their base in a hellish barrage of high-explosive murder. In Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath, when playing as the Brotherhood of Nod I delighted at sneaking multiple squadrons of Spectres (a fast moving Artillery piece equipped with cloaking devices) into positions around my opponent's base to launch crippling precision bombardments before swiftly retreating back into the shadows, laughing maniacally as my opponent struggles to react.

The C&C franchise was my first experience with RTS games, although I had played and enjoyed games with similiar strategic aspects to them before, god I miss that series...

Back to the actual topic though, I feel that execution moves add a very satisfying reward for playing well and can also work well as a gameplay mechanic, like in For Honor, if you manage to pull off an execution move on an enemy player it has two effects, 1; it disables other enemy players' ability to revive said fallen teammate, meaning they have to wait for respawn (with a slightly longer timer if I recall), and 2; it automatically replenishes a portion of your health bar, allowing you to potentially continue fighting to capitalise on the enemy team's sudden number disadvantage rather than retreating to a friendly control point to heal.

 

Or the classic TT exploit "I can totally fire against the enemy warlord who I tarpitted with a nobody sergeant while he's in a duel if I use an apocalypse template blast to target a soldier standing next to him:.


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#32
Mazryonh

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The only thing I hated more than the executions in Dawn of War were the knock-down mechanics. Oh look, that Chaos Lord I really, REALLY need to murder with all my guns is stabbing a Scout and therefore is totally immune to a Land Raider's lascannons now for some reason! Utterly stupid mechanic, should never have been included.

 

Eternal Crusade? Not played it, but from the gameplay footage I've watched executions just seem to make you stand in the open for half an hour and give the other team free kills. Long, dull and utterly pointless. Take them out of the game.

 

At least in DoW1, units performing execution moves couldn't actually harm any opposition until the execution move was over.  Your best move is to focus fire on other enemy units until the moves are done. 

 

And for Eternal Crusade, you get more experience for performing execution moves.  I'm of the opinion that the bonus for performing those executions in EC needs to be increased, since players are left so vulnerable while performing them. 

 

I should have included the Dark Crusade trailer vids side by side earlier, so viewers can see just what was different between the two: 

 

The Uncensored Trailer:

 

 

The Censored Version that was used in the final build of Dark Crusade as an intro:

 



#33
A Melancholic Sanguinity

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It depends on how they're executed *BLAM* sorry, implemented for me. If they add some kind of meaningful mechanic or decision to the flow of gameplay, I'm all for it. Space Marine, for instance, had executions as a health recovery mechanic - which was awesome, but you also had to set up for one via stunning the enemy or getting them hurt enough (if I'm recalling correctly). That I think is a great way to do it. It conveys the brutal feeling of the 41st Millenium, there's a rewarding payoff for using that mechanic, and it adds some depth to the gameplay in terms of how you approach fights and groups of enemies.

 

On the other hand, if they're just kind of... there and not really attached to game flow or decision making, I could live without them. Sure, it might look cool the first few times you see it, but let's face it, they'll outstay their welcome quickly, especially if they break the gameplay flow or become a mechanic of frustration. It'd be like playing a tabletop game against somebody who screamed "Blood for the blood god!" for every 6 they rolled. It'd get fething old, fething fast.


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#34
Demonl

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Don't care for them...not unless it is an inquisitor or a Necromunda based game.

 

40K (or Heresy) needs a game like Wargame Red Dragon. 


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#35
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Eh. Looks cool but often gets in the way of more dakka.

 

I guess it depends how its done mechanically. As in, will this be a stupid cut scene where I continue to get hit by other foes? Because whilst I'm getting my purging on, I might not have time (or health!) to go for fancy kills, no matter how cool and gory they are. I might just need to murder everyone before my health bar/etc is drained.

 

One thing I do like about EC is that the fancy kill-cams are optional...I don't 'have' to finish them off in style, I can just put another few bolt rounds into them from behind cover, rather than running out into the open and attracting fire of my own.



#36
Ktan

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Depends on context. I've been replaying Dawn of War 1 and 2 recently, and noticed one or two things about executions. I've either not noticed them or, when I have noticed them, it's because it's locked a character in one place while the animation finishes and the rest of his squad was retreating. At which point that lone marine dies because the game decided he was going to be all fancy about it.

 

Relic said that they hated taking control away from the player in an RTS, and yet extremely long execution animations did it all the time. They're a pretty cool njovelty, but for me they are one of the things about DoW that hasn't aged well. I've seen lots of people annoyed they aren't in DoW3. I think it's a good thing, tbh.

 

I'm more okay with them in Space Marine. You actively initiate them, and they have a gameplay purpose. I'm much more tolerant of them when you're controlling a single character and you choose when they happen.

 

Also, they were rarely overly long in Space Marine, so they gave you a slight pause to breath during the carnage. I've not played Doom 2016 but I've seen plenty of it and I'm much more in favour of short but sweet animations rather than the somewhat drawn out ones we got in Dawn of War.



#37
Mazryonh

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Meanwhile, another video game franchise focussing on playable Space Marines shows us how to bring doom to your helpless enemies: 
 

 
If there's a Space Marine 2, it looks like Relic will have to up their game. Or will they allow "hasty" executions like this one and make more drawn-out ones more beneficial in some way?


Edited by Mazryonh, 13 May 2017 - 04:15 AM.





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