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Requests for additional (sub-)forums


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#1
IVIilitarus

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I think an Imperial Knight sub-forum would do good. One thing I've noticed is that the Imperial Knights get stuffed into the Adeptus Mechanicus category. I think this is a little odd for a few reasons.

 

1. It appears that as a rule, when an army gets its own Codex Supplement or Codex, a la Defenders of Terra, Codex: Dark Angels, Codex: Deathwatch, it gets its own subforum. I think this is a fairly reasonable way of doing things. I think it's a little odd that Militarum Tempestus don't have their own subforum, but given that Militarum Tempestus are an anemic Codex and their units are even in the Guard Codex, it's not that unreasonable.

Codex: Imperial Knights is definitely a thing. The Imperial Knights have a standalone Codex with their own force organisation, warlord traits and relics. There are even kind of two editions (the first one, featuring only the Knight Errant and Paladin, and the newer one featuring all the Citadel Knight variants and new wargear). Unlike Militarum Tempestus, whose rules are also rolled into Codex: Astra Militarum and they don't even get their own relics, Imperial Knight rules and wargear are found solely in their Codex. And even though they're often a supplementary force, they are used in MANY different army configurations, not just with Mechanicus. I also get why Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii might be a single sub-forum, as they're so alike and coordinate so well, and players often use them together, but I don't think this is quite the same for knights.

 

2. It's a little odd from the lore perspective. Imperial Knights are derived exclusively from noble houses. Even though many noble houses align themselves with the Mechanicus, they still operate independently much of the time. Their fighting style and organisation is vastly removed from the cold, utilitarian, cyborg style of Mechanicus. Knight houses are flamboyant, over the top and grand with their own institutional culture. Even when they align themselves to the Mechanicum (and not always), they still retain their noble trappings. They just repaint their knights. On the tabletop, I know knights see a lot of use with the Mechanicum as allies and via the War Convocation, but knights are a mainstay in many different armies, and not just Imperial Armies but also Chaos armies with Renegade Knights rules coming with the Traitor's Hate supplement.

 

3. Knights are so far removed from Mechanicus that I think they deserve a subforum. The Imperial Knights are unique in being an entire army of super-heavy models. Their Codex is packed with rich history, culture, heraldry and flamboyance. They are very, very different from the aesthetic of the Mechanicus. They are not even in the same branch of the Imperium, the way Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii are. They're used as support elements for many armies, not exclusively Mechanicus and having them in their own subforum means that people who want to see how to use multiple knights fielded can learn more, easily. Imperial Knights are an Imperium player's first super-heavy nowadays, so they're a big step for a lot of players.

 

4. Imperial Knights often feature bitchin' paintjobs and fantastic conversions as a consequence of being very different models. The subforums are often used for faction-specific modelling and painting advice or showcases and Imperial Knights make amazing showcase and centrepiece projects.

 

5. I guess what i'm trying to get at here is that there aren't a lot of players who field solely Imperial Knight armies. But I think Imperial Knights are different and important enough that they should have a sub-forum for discussion.


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#2
Chaplain Dosjetka

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Is there enough traffic to justify the creation of a new subforum? I believe that this is a crucial question for the creation of a new subforum.

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#3
IVIilitarus

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We've got Adepta Sororitas, Inquisition and Agents of the Imperium subforums. The Deathwatch subforum has only existed for weeks and is almost at the same number of posts and threads as Inquisition. I doubt it'll be any lower traffic than Agents of the Imperium or Inquisition. And even if it is, those two just continue existing happily.



#4
Chaplain Dosjetka

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The Sororitas have a strong community and there is quite a bit of activity. And using the recent Deathwatch subforum isn't a good idea because it's only been out for a month or so and already has 7 pages of topics whereas Codex: IK has been released for a long while and, from what I have seen, there doesn't seem to be much of a community around that particular army or much in the way of IK-related discussion. Though take into account that I don't browse much outside certain areas so I don't have a clear picture of the situation.

That said, you're absolutely right about the Inquisition and Agents of the Imperium subforums. I'm guessing that quite a bit more traffic was expected.

Oh, and my view in no way reflects that of the Moderators or the Admins who are the ones who make these decisions. :)
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#5
Brother Tyler

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This one is still open for discussion.

We have three basic options:
  • Status quo - Imperial Knights remain within the Adeptus Mechanicus forum
  • Imperial Knights are given a dedicated forum
  • Imperial Knights are covered in the Agents of the Imperium forum
While giving a faction with a dedicated codex its own forum is the general practice here, there are two notable exceptions: the Legion of the Damned and the Imperial Knights.

The primary reason for these exceptions is amount of traffic, though the "size" of their codices is also a large part. There is a logistical side to things that is transparent to the membership at large.

What are your thoughts on the three options?

Note that this isn't a vote. The admins are discussing the issue and will certainly take your input into consideration, but we'll make a decision based on what we feel is best for both the Imperial Knights faction and the B&C as a whole.

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#6
Warsmith Uveron

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Knights are odd. 

 

I would like to see a dedicated sub-forum so i easly find posts about knights.

 

Not because I have a knight army, but I run them as allies for nearly all my armies. And having one central location to talk about them as a unit will help the community as a hole.  


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#7
Brother Tyler

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Note that "easily finding [Imperial] knights" can also be accomplished via effective use of the tag system.

Yes, a dedicated forum would make it easy to find most of the topics about Imperial Knights, but you'll see discussions in multiple locations depending upon the subject matter (i.e., the Forge, Tactica, Liber Astartes, etc.).

I'm not discounting your argument - it's perfectly valid. I just want to ensure that you're considering the full scope of achieving what you see as an end-state.
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#8
Warsmith Uveron

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Note that "easily finding [Imperial] knights" can also be accomplished via effective use of the tag system.

Yes, a dedicated forum would make it easy to find most of the topics about Imperial Knights, but you'll see discussions in multiple locations depending upon the subject matter (i.e., the Forge, Tactica, Liber Astartes, etc.).

I'm not discounting your argument - it's perfectly valid. I just want to ensure that you're considering the full scope of achieving what you see as an end-state.

 

The 'problem' with the taging is that isnt not effectively applied, as we do not have access to simple generic tags.  And personally I view content on the form via the ‘View New Content’ page with a Filter by Forum filter applied to follow the parts of the hobby I have an interest in, and this Filter does not the option to filter by tag.  

 

I find tags to be be great for Users to link threads together (Like I have done with my Chaos and Imperial forces). But to provide links for a whole codex of topics I feel requires effort for the Mods to set up Generic Tags that can be linked to from a single launch site. 

 

Edit: Saying that I understand the issues  of the Sub-Forum Creep we are having, and I understand the Mods reluctance to make more and more, its is alot of work. I simply want to state how I view content on this site, and why sub-forums work best for me. 


Edited by Uveron, 02 November 2016 - 12:56 PM.

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#9
CommodusXIII

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I'm a huge proponent of Knights, but I don't think they need their own forum.  They're very rare as a standalone army.  Otherwise, they're closely linked with the AdMech.  Other Factions are more likely to discuss them in their own forums, in the context of their individual needs, rather than dropping by a dedicated Imperial Knight forum. In that case, there might as well be a combined Titan forum.


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Personally, I think they are coming. Like a massive electrified thousand ton ball of barbed wire with hundreds of trapped and frustrated gamers embedded in it, rolling down a hill. "That, Bilbo Baggins, is the sound of inevitability."

 

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#10
WarriorFish

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I think they're well established in the AdMech section and it is working well, so I'd say the current arrangements are fine. As Commodus said a fair bit of the conversation happens elsewhere as by their nature most Knights are fielded as allies to a primary faction which takes the focus of the topic.


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#11
Tyriks

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I think they fit well with the AdMech forum.  I think separating them could hurt activity for both.  



#12
Isolia

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While well established in the admech forum, I would personally put them in Agents of the Imperium :

- they are most often used as auxiliaries to other armies
- they have less traffic than admech factions in the corresponding forum, so it is not so common to see posts about them compared to admech
- the Agents forum has little traffic so a boost would benefit it, and give knights more visibility , and make finding posts easier

I am for one always a bit sad to parse the admech section for knight stuff and not find new posts and have to check all nevertheless before marking the subforum as read, or I'm afraid to miss out on new knight content. In Agents it would be much more straightforward, and I'm more interested in other auxiliaries than mechanicus which I will not field anyway

But then I agree that this could hurt traffic for admech

Edited by Isolia, 03 November 2016 - 07:46 AM.


#13
CommodusXIII

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I am for one always a bit sad to parse the admech section for knight stuff and not find new posts and have to check all nevertheless before marking the subforum as read, or I'm afraid to miss out on new knight content. In Agents it would be much more straightforward, and I'm more interested in other auxiliaries than mechanicus which I will not field anyway

 

Wouldn't that be the same case if the Knights were moved to the Agents subforum?  The move isn't going to spontaneously generate new posts, and you'll still be sifting for information.

 

With the AdMech, there's a logical tie through the War Convocation.  No other Faction has a Knight specifically required in one of its Formations.  Combined with the lore of Mechanicus-aligned Households, it's as fitting a place as any.


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Personally, I think they are coming. Like a massive electrified thousand ton ball of barbed wire with hundreds of trapped and frustrated gamers embedded in it, rolling down a hill. "That, Bilbo Baggins, is the sound of inevitability."

 

Do not suffer your zeal for the Chapter to lead you into argument with others.
 
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#14
Warsmith Uveron

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Wouldn't that be the same case if the Knights were moved to the Agents subforum?  The move isn't going to spontaneously generate new posts, and you'll still be sifting for information.

 

With the AdMech, there's a logical tie through the War Convocation.  No other Faction has a Knight specifically required in one of its Formations.  Combined with the lore of Mechanicus-aligned Households, it's as fitting a place as any.

 

 

This parallels the debates around Khorn Deamon Kin in the Chaos Sub-Forums. 

 

Edit: Note Iam not saying it should influence things one way or the other,  but GW is spreading out the Codex's and Armys no longer fall into the old devisions which makes it hard on a forum like this. 


Edited by Uveron, 03 November 2016 - 05:14 PM.

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#15
Noserenda

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I think with More and more subfactions on the way eventually its going to be completely impractical to have sub forums for every codex. They seem to fit logically in the AM forum so keeping them there seems sensible to me.


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#16
Carlson793

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Honestly, I'd rather see the 30K AdMech stuff move to Adeptus Mechanicus than see any Mechanicus sub-faction split off to another forum - would make it so much easier to cross-develop my lists/models into 30K and 40K lists having everything in a one-stop-shop. Spliting off Knights, Cult, and/or Skitarii into their own forum would just make it a touch harder for my ADD brain to follow.


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#17
Charlo

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Same as how BA/DA/SW have one.

The Chaos forum could become rather bloated rather fast if KDK, all the legions in the up coming book, plus the 1KSons specific units are all there.

Just an idea seeing as they are getting a book as a faction their own.
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#18
IronDrake28

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I could see that, if Traitor Legions truly does add a lot for Chaos, they'll be as diverse as Codex Marines.

#19
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I guess it depends on how meaty the book is, they've got a fair number of units going but on the other side you'd not want a forum gathering dust through lack of use.

 

We should wait to see how the dust settles (ok, I'll stop now) after release smile.png


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#20
Kurgan the Lurker

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That is really going to depend on the book. We've had Chaos in so many iterations -- including Legion/Army specific -- in the past and they have all really failed. They just never had the traffic and driver that other parts of the forum did. 

 

It could change with these new books. We will have to see.


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#21
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Yes, even back in the day when many Legions were better identified, and had specific rules we had individual Chaos forums, and even so we collapsed them.

I'd say it's a wait and see scenario.

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#22
Charlo

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I mostly ask because 1KSons seems to be the first that has a real dedicated range of kits.

 

It could be worth considering just God Specific and then undivided?

 

I'll be clearer for everyones sake:

 

Khorne would cover KDK, KD, General Khorne Armies and Warbands and inevitable World Eater Releases.

 

Tzeench would be 1KSons etc

 

Same for the other gods, expanding when they get specific books.

 

Undivided would be the other legions/ renegades, heretics and.... Furies :P (SO basically a million Iron Warrior players :P)

 

I think you could get a real sense of comrodarie and rivalry with the gods!


Edited by Charlo, 24 November 2016 - 03:24 PM.

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#23
Chaplain Dosjetka

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But then would that also mean splitting Team Chaos into five seperate factions for the ETL? ;)

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#24
IronDrake28

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Codex Marines are all together though aren't they? I assumed that would be the route you could go down.

#25
Canadian_F_H

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But then would that also mean splitting Team Chaos into five seperate factions for the ETL? ;)


And then you can split our glorious templars from the followers of the codex!

Yes!

(Just kidding, sub forums do not an etl faction make)
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