So the blood Ravens are not descended from the thousand sons

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Laurie has a habit of doing stuff like that, to me it seems sometimes like he does like people having the "wrong" kind of fun.

 

When someone is wrong, he isn't having the "wrong kind of fun", he's just wrong. Tired of people who are just plain wrong claiming others are raining on their parades. You wouldn't get these kind of comments or reactions if you were right or had some kind of persuasive evidence. If I ran around shouting something blatantly false with absolutely no reason to go around doing so, I can't use "wrong fun" as an excuse.

 

If someone dislikes the official canon and wanted to make their own canon, that's perfectly fine. Nobody is going to say they can't do that. It's when they constantly spam and insist that their version is correct, that's when people get on their case, and then they cry about people saying they're not allowed to have the "wrong" kind of fun? No, you were just wrong. 

 

But regarding the Blood Ravens, this is one case where the community was actually on point. The Blood Ravens have more Librarians than average and their chapter symbol is similar to one of the Thousand Sons company or chapter symbols. If someone went around saying something that was wrong, but had good evidence to believe they were right, that's a different story. If I started insisting that Blood Ravens were World Eaters because they were red and white, and every single thread talking about Blood Raven's geneseed was filled with people shouting about Angron, that's not having fun, that's just being foolish.

 

So in this case, it's not that the players were having the wrong kind of fun, it's the writers doing a bad job on their part and blaming the community for coming to the most obvious conclusion.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[Kristoff]

The thing is, that it wasn't just the games that convinced people that the Blood Raven's were decended from the Thousand Sons, the Black Library books added to that (that I am guessing that he oversaw?) so is he really that suprised at the reaction of us fans?

 

And the books also gave another reason for their high Witch content other than their geneseed: They actively seek out those who have precog or Psyker tendencies.

 

Do that enough times and the Geneseed down the line takes a natural tendency to encourage Psyker development and so on, so that it LOOKS like they have the Traitor Witch Geneseed.

 

It was a fun theory for the Thousand Sons, and still is, but it could also be that they are following a similar path as the Thousand Sons (albeit a longer one) by encouraging the Wtich development.

[Arkangilos]

 

The thing is, that it wasn't just the games that convinced people that the Blood Raven's were decended from the Thousand Sons, the Black Library books added to that (that I am guessing that he oversaw?) so is he really that suprised at the reaction of us fans?

 

And the books also gave another reason for their high Witch content other than their geneseed: They actively seek out those who have precog or Psyker tendencies.

 

Do that enough times and the Geneseed down the line takes a natural tendency to encourage Psyker development and so on, so that it LOOKS like they have the Traitor Witch Geneseed.

 

It was a fun theory for the Thousand Sons, and still is, but it could also be that they are following a similar path as the Thousand Sons (albeit a longer one) by encouraging the Wtich development.

 

I think he means the Horus Heresy book or story that pointed it out, not the DoW specific books.

[No Foes Remain]

 

 

The thing is, that it wasn't just the games that convinced people that the Blood Raven's were decended from the Thousand Sons, the Black Library books added to that (that I am guessing that he oversaw?) so is he really that suprised at the reaction of us fans?

 

And the books also gave another reason for their high Witch content other than their geneseed: They actively seek out those who have precog or Psyker tendencies.

 

Do that enough times and the Geneseed down the line takes a natural tendency to encourage Psyker development and so on, so that it LOOKS like they have the Traitor Witch Geneseed.

 

It was a fun theory for the Thousand Sons, and still is, but it could also be that they are following a similar path as the Thousand Sons (albeit a longer one) by encouraging the Wtich development.

 

I think he means the Horus Heresy book or story that pointed it out, not the DoW specific books.

 

Indeed I was, serves me right for posting when half-asleep. The well known line in A Thousand Sons and the short with Revuel were probably the big possible indicators that the Blood Ravens were from the Thousand Sons.

 

 

And there were no Dawn of War books..... 

[Knight of the Raven]

In this November's White Dwarf, Blood Ravens are depicted as the army of the month with Rik Turner's Scions of Avidya... and the close-up on the faction at the end of the article mentions that their primarch might not have been one of the nine loyal ones, with 'loyal' in italics. That's after mentioning there were a few candidates among those same loyal primarchs though.

 

The article itself also mentions that while the Blood Ravens' archives stretch to M37 at the earliest, some imperial organizations have older references to them in their own archives. These organizations remain unnamed however.

 

So I guess Games Workshop didn't get the memo about stopping with references to traitor geneseed...

[Kristoff]

I think he means the Horus Heresy book or story that pointed it out, not the DoW specific books.

Indeed I was, serves me right for posting when half-asleep. The well known line in A Thousand Sons and the short with Revuel were probably the big possible indicators that the Blood Ravens were from the Thousand Sons.

 

 

And there were no Dawn of War books.....

 

As juvenilely written as the Dawn of War books were, some of the concepts they provided as part of the Blood Raven recruiting habits and the point I brought up as a result of it are still just as valid.  But that is applying a chicken/egg concept behind their Witch tendencies instead of just looking at their original Geneseed.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Kristoff

[SickSix]

In this November's White Dwarf, Blood Ravens are depicted as the army of the month with Rik Turner's Scions of Avidya... and the close-up on the faction at the end of the article mentions that their primarch might not have been one of the nine loyal ones, with 'loyal' in italics. That's after mentioning there were a few candidates among those same loyal primarchs though.

 

The article itself also mentions that while the Blood Ravens' archives stretch to M37 at the earliest, some imperial organizations have older references to them in their own archives. These organizations remain unnamed however.

 

So I guess Games Workshop didn't get the memo about stopping with references to traitor geneseed...

And their you go. Another example of how dysfunctional GW and it's subsidiaries can be. BL screaming 'no it isnt' and WD saying 'definitely maybe'. LOL

[Halandaar]

Hmm. I think it's actually pretty unnecessary and a bit douchey to just shut down all the BR=TS speculation. There are enough hints lying around in the fiction to justify those links, whether they are wrong or not. Half of the appeal of a setting as big as 40k's is the number of unknowns which allow opportunities for people to create their own fiction within the larger setting. If we don't need to know who the Blood Ravens are descended from, we also don't need to know who they aren't descended from.

[A D-B]

Hmm. I think it's actually pretty unnecessary and a bit douchey to just shut down all the BR=TS speculation. There are enough hints lying around in the fiction to justify those links, whether they are wrong or not. Half of the appeal of a setting as big as 40k's is the number of unknowns which allow opportunities for people to create their own fiction within the larger setting. If we don't need to know who the Blood Ravens are descended from, we also don't need to know who they aren't descended from.

 

I concur.

[Canadian_F_H]

Something about quote I read once about a good mystery is not what you right, but what you don't write...

 

Lovecraft was great at the indescribable horror... if had been quite diacribable it wouldn't have been such a horror.

[Brother Casman]

Guys, our topic is about Blood Ravens being probable (not) descendants of the Thousand Sons. Please don't snipe at each other.

 

Edited to add: I've hidden a couple posts.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Brother Casman

[Ciler]

The thing is, that it wasn't just the games that convinced people that the Blood Raven's were decended from the Thousand Sons, the Black Library books added to that (that I am guessing that he oversaw?) so is he really that suprised at the reaction of us fans?

Pretty much. I don't recall seeing any major debate about the Blood raven's origin until the Heresy book series came out (first with a Thousand Sons, then those shorts with the TS librarian and the one with the team that returns to Prospero) that people started leaning strongly toward the TS connection.

 

It existed before but with less substance even.