3000pts Imperial Fist Stone Gauntlet

[K3nn3rs]

Please see below for my ever evolving Imperial Fists list, comments welcome!

 

HQ:

Sigismund 230 (Warlord)

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer 160

 

Troops:

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power weapon; melta bombs) 280

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power weapon; melta bombs) 280

 

9 Tactical Space Marines: chainswords; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; power weapon; melta bombs) 190

• Rhino: hunter-killer missile; dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 60

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

 

6 Terminators: 6× Vigil pattern storm shield; 3× power fist; 3× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer) 360

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

2 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: shatter shells 140

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

6 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; remove lascannon; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 310

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

 

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Ammunition Dump; Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun; Barricades; Barricades; Barricades 155

 

2,970 points

 

So the plan would be to create a fire base centred on the fortifications, providing cover for the Venator, Scorpius and quad launchers, manned by the HSS, and protected by the 2 squads of breachers (at T5, with FnP, grav weapons and augury bubbles). I think it provides a decent amount of anti tank, anti horde and moderate anti air firepower.

 

My mini Death Star would focus on the enemies main strength. 7 x T5 3++/5+ FnP fearless terminators with power fists, chain fists and thunder hammers, supported by a primus medicae (giving the FnP) and Sigusmund (fearless and combat res).

 

Finally I have a tac sqd in an upgraded (too upgraded?) rhino to provide limited support/ secure objectives (and open a third elite slot).

 

What would you change/ spend the last 30pts on?

 

This is for a narrative event (which is allowing Leviathan FOC!).

 

I'm leaning towards more chain fists on the terminators to help bring down knights/ super heavies or even titans...

[K3nn3rs]

By cutting out some of the upgrades (breachers grav weapons, the bunkers ammo dump and terminator power fists) and taking down the terminators and HSS by one each I've managed to squeeze in 2 small squads of recon marines (cheap outflanking troops), allowing me to get a unit of quads and javelins in:

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer 160

Sigismund 230

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power weapon; melta bombs) 250

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power weapon; melta bombs) 250

 

4 Reconnaissance Marines: + 1 Reconnaissance Sergeant 100

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

4 Reconnaissance Marines: + 1 Reconnaissance Sergeant 100

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

 

5 Terminators: 5× Vigil pattern storm shield; 2× power weapon; 3× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer) 305

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

2 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: shatter shells 140

 

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron

• Javelin Attack Speeder: 2× hunter-killer missiles 65

• Javelin Attack Speeder: 2× hunter-killer missiles 65

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

5 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; remove lascannon; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 270

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

 

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun; Barricades; Barricades; Barricades 135

 

2985 points

[Caillum]

Why take all those upgrades when the HSS is going in the Bunker? They're pretty protected in there, so I'd keep the Sergeant's lascannon and only take an augury scanner, but add another 3 men to the unit (at 3k, you want to maximise anti-tank firepower). I'd also drop the quad gun and barricades (1 quad gun won't be enough anti-air to make a difference, and you can set up the Bunker near terrain that will grant your troops cover anyway).

 

Javelins are awesome, but they should have multi-meltas to be the most efficient.

 

I'd personally take a Solarite power gauntlet on the Primus Medicae, because AP1 will be helpful against tanks.

 

Finally, drop a Terminator and grab power fists for the Breacher Sergeants. That should be around 3k! :)

[K3nn3rs]

Thanks for the feedback Caillum - it's really appreciated!

 

I went for axes for the breachers as I think it would look cool and I have the melta bombs for vehicles/ dreads. I have the points to upgrade to power firsts though.

 

I like the idea of switching the Primus medicae's Thunder hammer for a power gauntlet - extra fluffy, easy to model the apothercary gubbins to and its master crafted/AP1.

 

I went for range with the javelins ( 2 X hunter seekers each) over the multi melta as I don't think they'll last long but I see your point about the multi meltas- dropping the hunter seeker missiles pays for the MM.

 

The only upgrades on the HSS sergeant that I've paid for is the augury scanner and artificer armour. The amours there to let me tank damage when the fortifications defences have been penetrated, if he dies it's not an issue as I've not given him a lascannon. Whilst he's alive he'll also man the quad gun. I'm happy to be corrected but surely the quad gun provides a useful counter to the lightnings everyone seems to take (it's 48" anti air bubble is meant to help protect the Spartan get across the board). Combined with the tank hunter rule the quad gun should even pose a threat to fire raptors, etc.

 

Barricades are there as they are fluffy, make my breachers immune to pinning and by having them I'm not limited to placing my fortification close to existing terrain (allowing me to bubble wrap my fire base with the breachers).

 

Do you think I still need to rethink those last upgrades or now that I've explained everything a bit better are they justified?

[Caillum]

No, your list was fine really - just giving you some of my thoughts man! :)

 

I wouldn't swap for multi-meltas - take them in addition to the HKMs! That's 5 S8 shots each!

 

Quad gun is one of the better anti-air options (and I forgot it would have Tank Hunters from the HSS), but if it Intercepts, then the lascannon team are shooting at it as well. :/ You could find 35 points for a base level Techmarine to shoot the quad gun (and repair if needed)... And one of the strengths of the Bunker is that 8 guys can shoot out of it - try to bump the squad up.

 

The Barricades are cool, but when push comes to shove, I'd want the points for something else personally. They won't help against the units that delete SG Breachers - Scorpii, Medusas, Typhons.

[K3nn3rs]

Good catch on the interceptor rule... I don't want my lascannons firing as well!

 

The issue with a tech marine is finding the points for another Troops slot to unlock it.

 

Ver 3:

 

HQ:

 

Sigismund 230

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; Solarite power gauntlet 165

 

Troops:

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 255

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 255

 

4 Reconnaissance Marines: + 1 Reconnaissance Sergeant 100

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

4 Reconnaissance Marines: + 1 Reconnaissance Sergeant 100

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Elite:

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

 

5 Terminators: 3× Vigil pattern storm shield; 2× power weapon; 3× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer) 300

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

2 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: shatter shells 140

 

Fast:

 

Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron

• Javelin Attack Speeder: pintle-mounted multi-melta; 2× hunter-killer missiles 75

• Javelin Attack Speeder: pintle-mounted multi-melta; 2× hunter-killer missiles 75

 

Heavy:

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

6 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 330

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

 

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker 55

 

2,995 points

[Caillum]

Hmmm... forgot about the Troops needing to balance out Fast Attack/Elites.

 

Where are you with models on this "ever-evolving list"? :) You seem to be lacking 2 things - points and options - ie. you can't take away the Recon Marines as you need the Troop slots filled, but you need points pretty badly to upgrade some units...

[K3nn3rs]

I've got the BoC and BoP box sets, upgrade sets for the breachers, Venator, Spartan, Mk IV marines for the recon marines (currently used as marksman vets). I've got 40K rhinos and s converted scorpius (I plan to replace them with FW stufff once everything else had been purchased/ painted).

 

Sigusmund, some lascannons, the javelins and mortars are the only things I really need to get.

 

It's certainly a limiting rite of war but it's one of the factors that made me go with IF!

[K3nn3rs]

Going back to the quad gun/ lascannons point.

 

I don't have my rule book with me put in 40K I've always played (and seen it played) that squads manning a quad gun would intercept/ sky fire with it the turn the enemies flyer came on (the rest of the squad can't fire their weapons as they don't have intercept). In their following turn the quad gun can't fire (having just fired in the enemies proceeding turn)but the squads weapons are free to fire as normal...

 

Is this correct (

[Caillum]

Yeah, you're right, as only the Quad Gun has Interceptor! In fact, it promotes keeping the Sergeant's lascannon, as he can use it next phase! :)

 

Don't get me wrong - Stone Gauntlet is bloody awesome! But given you haven't grabbed the Javelins, I would consider the following changes to make things easier:

- add some special weapons to the Breachers,

- bump the HSS to 8,

- bump the Quad Mortars to 3,

- swap both Recon Squads for a Tactical Squad in a Rhino,

- put your Bunker upgrades back in! (I like the thinking behind them actually!)

 

Maybe something like this?

 

HQ

Sigismund XXX

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; Solarite power gauntlet 165

 

TROOPS

10 Breacher Space Marines: Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs); 9 Breacher Space Marines; 2 × meltagun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla 285

10 Breacher Space Marines: Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs); 9 Breacher Space Marines; 2 × meltagun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla 285

10 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; melta bombs); 9 Tactical Space Marines; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla 160

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

ELITES

5 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer); 4 Terminators; 4 × Vigil pattern storm shield; power weapon; 3 × chainfist 290

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

3 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: quad launcher (shatter shells) 210

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

8 Heavy Support Marines: Heavy Support Sergeant (augury scanner); 7 Heavy Support Marines; lascannons 360

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

Whirlwind Scorpius XXX

 

FORTIFICATIONS

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Ammo Store; Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun; 3 x Barricades 150

 

2,995 points

[K3nn3rs]

Agreed - I'll leave the javelins for a future army...

 

I might redistribute a few points to get an extra terminator (these need to be able to at least slow down and put some damage onto a primarch/ Death Star unit)

 

Thanks for all of your input Caillum!

[K3nn3rs]

So I've had a change of heart...

 

As much as I love Sigusmund his position in my army doesn't feel right and I'm struggling to justify why he's there (after all 30K is meant to lean more towards narrative play!).

 

My IF have a unique colour scheme inspired by the picture below/ my profile picture.

 

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140411234829/warhammer40k/images/2/29/IF_Vet_Assault_Termi.jpg

 

The fluff is WiP but it's essentially based around an IF force that was garrisoning a previous conquest (Necromunda) then sent to muster with the reprisal fleet prior to Istvan. During the battle of Phall they fight valiantly but are badly mauled, ultimately being scattered (and assumed lost) as the IF breakaway from the IW fleet after receiving the order to return to Terra. They are now in the process of fighting their way back to Terra to stand alonside Dorn once more...

 

This brings me back to this list, with inspiration from Caillum's feedback:

 

HQ

 

Praetor in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; Paragon blade (master-crafted); digital lasers; grenade harness - 195

• 4 Chosen Terminators: 4× chainfist; 4x Vigil pattern Stormshields; + 1 Terminator Standard Bearer (thunder hammer; vigil pattern storm shield) 285

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil pattern storm shield; Solarite power gauntlet 160

 

Troops:

 

10 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 290

 

10 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 290

 

4 Reconnaissance Marines: recon armour; nuncio-vox; cameleoline; + 1 Reconnaissance Sergeant 135

 

Elite:

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

3 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: shatter shells 210

 

9 Veteran Space Marines: nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; 2× heavy bolter and suspensor web; + 1 Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist) 245

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Heavy:

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

5 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; remove lascannon; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 270

 

Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

Fortifications:

 

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun; Ammunition Dump; Barricades; Barricades; Barricades 155

 

2,980 points

 

See above for general tactics/ justification for the fortifications, etc.

 

20 points left. I can free up 25 points from the recons (camo cloaks), 30 from the breachers (additional squad member in each unit), 60 points from the breachers (grav weapons), 10 from the sergeants (down grade fists to power axes), and 40 from the vets (2 x heavy bolters).

 

This would give me 20- 185 points to play with...

 

Any ideas?

 

**remember any additional elites/ fast attack choices need either a compensating reduction OR an extra troops units (that's why the recon marines are in the list.

[Caillum]

Sorry man, Imperial Fists Terminator Command Squads can't take Vigil pattern storm shields. It specifies "Any Legion Terminator or Terminator-armour equipped independent character..."

[K3nn3rs]

That was my interpretation but I've been convinced by others on this site that is allowed.

 

FW really need to tidy up some of their rules - Vigil Pattern Storm shields on Tartaros terminators and command squads for example - it makes no sense!

 

I expect it's the same for the other legions...

[K3nn3rs]

This time with Dorn!

 

(Having a very simple conversion using the Custodes models)

 

HQ:

Centurion: artificer armour; thunder hammer; melta bombs; boarding shield 100

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Dragonscale storm shield; Solarite power gauntlet; sonic shrieker 160

 

Troops:

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 275

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs) 275

 

5 Terminators: 5× Vigil pattern storm shield; Dragonscale storm shield; 2× power fist; 3× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer) 315

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

Elites:

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

 

9 Veteran Space Marines: legion vexilla; + 1 Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen 195

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Heavy:

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

5 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; remove lascannon; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 270

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

 

Lord of War:

Rogal Dorn 385 (Warlord, RoW; Stone Gauntlet)

 

Fortifications:

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun; Barricades; Barricades; Barricades; Ammunition Dump 155

 

2,990 points

 

I think this list would present more issues to an opponent at 3000pts.

 

Thoughts?

[K3nn3rs]

I can't justify using Dorn in this list as his presence wouldn't fit with the background of the army (brief summary in a post above), after all, in building this list for a narrative event.

 

So the Praetor is back in:

 

Praetor in Terminator armour: Vigil Pattern Storm Shield; Paragon blade (master-crafted); digital lasers; grenade harness; 195

 

Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Vigil Pattern storm shield; Solarite power gauntlet; 160

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power axe melta bombs) 280

 

9 Breacher Space Marines: 2× graviton gun; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; + 1 Breacher Sergeant (artificer armour; power axe; melta bombs) 280

 

6 Tactical Support Marines: volkite chargers; chainswords; + 1 Tactical Support Sergeant (artificer armour; power axe and augury scanner; melta bombs) 169

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Apothecarion Detachment

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

• Apothecary: artificer armour; augury scanner 60

 

5 Terminators: 5 x Vigil pattern storm shield; 2× power fist; 3× chainfist; + 1 Terminator Sergeant (Vigil pattern storm shield; thunder hammer) 315

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

9 Veteran Space Marines: legion vexilla; melta bombs; 2× heavy bolter and suspensor web; + 1 Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen 260

• Rhino: dozer blade; pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

 

5 Heavy Support Marines: lascannons; + 1 Heavy Support Sergeant (artificer armour; remove lascannon; nuncio-vox and chainsword; augury scanner) 270

 

Whirlwind Scorpius 115

 

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker: Ammunition Dump; Barricades; Barricades; Barricades; Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun 155

 

2,999 points

 

Castle:

Breachers behind the barricades, defending the lascannons team (in the bunker), scorpius and Venator hiding behind the bunker. 3 x scanners on lascannon/ graviton units should keep infiltrators back and give deepstriking units pause for thought. The bunker also provides the AA.

 

Counter attack:

Spartan & HQ & termies- not so powerful now with the removal of siggi/ Dorn but should still be able to defeat/ attrite/ /slow down must units bar a primarch deathstar.

 

Flanks:

Volkite TSS for a cheap(ish) addition troop unit (needed in SG to unlock additional elite slots) and a tooled up vet unit (the event in going to allows multiple melta bombs to be used).

 

Any suggestions/ comments?

[Brother Captain Spud]

My only suggestions would be

 

use missile launchers rather than lascannons as they are slightly cheaper and with flack mkissiles you get the option for an additional AA unit. Also IF get tank hunters.

 

Use a master of signal rather than primus medicae. If you need another FNP buff add a third apothecary. I just dont thibk the PM is worth his high points, whereas if youbput the MoS near the missile team they become BS5 with Armour penetration rerolls.

 

But if you already have bought your stuff i wouldn't worry. Looks like a strong amd effective list.

[Slips]

My only suggestions would be

 

use missile launchers rather than lascannons as they are slightly cheaper and with flack mkissiles you get the option for an additional AA unit. Also IF get tank hunters.

 

Use a master of signal rather than primus medicae. If you need another FNP buff add a third apothecary. I just dont thibk the PM is worth his high points, whereas if youbput the MoS near the missile team they become BS5 with Armour penetration rerolls.

 

But if you already have bought your stuff i wouldn't worry. Looks like a strong amd effective list.

Normal Apothecaries can't join Terminator Squads which is the purpose of the TDA Primus in this Scenario.

[Withershadow]

Sorry man, Imperial Fists Terminator Command Squads can't take Vigil pattern storm shields. It specifies "Any Legion Terminator or Terminator-armour equipped independent character..."

LOL, Fists are a mess. I would be okay with a shield command squad (as long as they weren't in Tartaros :P).

[Brother Captain Spud]

A terminator in a command squad is still a Legion Terminator and can be equipped with any gear a command squad can take that isn't contradictory to terminator armour ie jumppack or bikes.

 

He is a Legionnaire.

He is in terminator armour.

Therefore he is a Legion Terminator.

If not what is he?

[Caillum]

"Legion Terminators" are an Elites choice unit. With these item allowances, it has specifically called out Terminator Command Squads separately before, ie. Night Lords with teleport transponders.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not a game breaking mechanic for IF Terminator Command Squads to have storm shields, but it's technically not allowed. It might even be intended by FW to be an option.

[Brother Captain Spud]

I've been playing variations of 40k since 95 and in the gaming groups ove been part of there has always been assumption that rules writers expect gamers to recognise self evident things i.e. a terminator is a terminator. Further that if something is 'technically' and explicitly not allowed it is noted on the rules e.g. some legion consul roles can take a power fist but a master of signal cannot and this exclusion is stated.

 

While I'm new to this forum I've been playing variations of 40k on amd off since 1995. The assumption by a few posters I've been shouted down by over the last day or so that omission is a ruling is something I've rarely been exposed to in my 22 year of warhams. As the rule book says:

"Warhammer 40,000 calls on a lot from you, the player. Your responsibility isn’t just to follow the rules, it’s also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in this spirit that the rules have been written."

 

It seems some people have missed this point amd are too focused on trying to outsmart other gamers by espousing the superiority of their interpretation of the rules.

[Withershadow]

Legion Terminator is a specific unit type, and it matters. Pride lets you take Legion Terminators and unique Terminators. Primarch chosen gives you Legion Terminators, and that does not include unique Terminators, even though they are Leginnaires and they are Terminators. We have a specific precedent on this distinction, a Command Squad Terminator unit is not a Legion Terminator unit. It is specifically called out by the rules. It meets all of your criteria.

 

So what is self-evident is that no, you cannot give them shields as specifically stated by the rules. Again I'd be okay with it, but it is 100% a house rule.

 

Since we're sharing our observations, I've noticed very many people are not very familiar with the rules, and when an error is pointed out, they get all passive aggressive and confrontational. Don't do that. If you don't like something and want to change it for a game, we can discuss it, but don't go putting on airs of superiority as some enlightened zen master of Funhammer because others read the manual more attentively. ;)

[Lord Blackwood]

Also for the record Brother Captain Spud  Caillum  is another really helpful forum  goer who comments extensive on  tactics and rules issues. 

I think you  are mistaking a genuine desire to assist people with personal attacks.  

I PERSONALLY may be a bit short with people  when I feel they dont get things that I think  are obvious. 
(And shorter still  when they persist in that belief despite evidence and sound reasoning being presented to them) 

But people like Slips and Caillum are extremely straightforward and non aggressive in the manner which they point out inconsistencies / incorrect readings of  rules.  Sure we all do this to have fun , and it is great that you have been playing since 95  but everyone can make mistakes  and snapping to the idea that you are being personally attacked or someone elses opinion must be wrong because it is different from how YOU play a thing is only going to make yer forum experience  less positive / less productive. 

 

[Brother Captain Spud]

I'm not saying these are personal attacks, i will say there is a substantial amount of "i/my gaming group/thread participants have deemed rule x means this and all who disagree are wrong" when there is no actual wording which can be pointed to which backs this up.

 

All I'm saying is there is sufficient vageries in the RaW that you can interpret it either way.

 

It does not say anywhere that IF Terminator command squads cannot take vigil pattern storm shields. This isn't debatable. It is a fact. The disagreement is if a command squad in terminator armour become legion terminators. The rules a silent on this. Find me a specific rule which states this is not the case and i will agree I'm wrong until then it is an interpretation.

 

This the reason GW/Fw do FAQs, because there are many of these rule gray areas.