Heresy Iron Warriors + WIP 40k Imperial Fists Crusade Stuff

[Doghouse]

I apologise for the long wordy nature of this thread but I just want to try and explain the thought process behind things in a bit more depth.

So waaaay back in somewhere around 2005 I think it was I came up with a technique for making more proportionate marines using terminators which is now known as Truescaling. When I came up with this the Horus Heresy side of modelling was in it's infancy, groups of us scrutinised every possible detail we could scrape from absolutely any source we could dig out of source books and the black library novels.

The idea was at the time to a lot of us in those groups this was the closest we'd get to 40k historical gaming, it didn't feel right to me to just use stock 40k marines and we lacked even the simplest parts of armour to be able to do anything like what people can do today so it was a godsend when FW took up the mantle of the Heresy and we started to see actual armour variants, the first being the mk4 Red Scorpion conversion kit. So inspired by the artwork of the marines and Jes Goodwin's mind blowing Deathwatch Inquisitor Captain (which was a case of suddenly "Marines are HOW BIG???") I set about trying to create a distinct look for my interpretation of Pre-Heresy marines (all our armies focused on marines before the Heresy itself based on the Index Astartes articles and the thought of Heresy seemed a long way off at the time).

Over the years I have tried numerous variations of the original technique in an attempt to simplify the process to get to a stage where an army is viable and had various degrees of success and failure in equal measure. Although it is still a niche within a niche aspect of our hobby it has brought me enormous pleasure to see so many others to be inspired to try their own and I have spent a great deal of time working with others which has been amazing to me.

The realisation of an actual army though has always been just out of my grasp...

So I decided that I was going to focus on an army that I can hopefully one day play against Apologist which has had it's tumbling blocks but after years of banging my head on a wall I've finally come up with a simple process that I use to finally churn these guys out at some speed and still look reasonably good (he has set the bar quite high to be honest... ).

With the release of the Calth boxed set with the realisation of plastic heresy era armour a glimmer of hope appeared. Suddenly the first readily available mass produced plastic miniatures had arrived and my mind started to tick over once again. I got myself a couple of sets and began to see what I could do with them. This produced the following marine as a test model which I had convinced myself that was "acceptable" and despite the amount of GS work that was going into them I was certain this would work well but I began to doubt.

http://i67.tinypic.com/30m06r4.jpg

It looked ok to me, well I convinced myself it did. I began to try to rationalise it that the IW had been in short supply of armour and had integrated the fresh supply of MK 4 armour Horus had delivered into their existing MK 3 design. But it didn't quite sit right with me and I started to collect parts for what I hoped would become an army regardless.

Then rumours appeared of plastic MK 3 marines which was a whoah hold on a sec moment, I looked into it further and decided to bide my time and wait. With the release of Burning of Prospero set an idea began to form, originally after opening the box I thought to myself that the miniatures were actually really cool and thoughts of truescaling went out the window as I threw together a test model Praetor.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2u63hia.jpg

This was just a quick tester, nothing fancy just something so I could get a feel for the marine models themselves. I sort of liked it but as I started to assemble more the dreaded call of the truescaler began nagging at me like some insidious warp entity.

After staring at the kits for a bit and contemplating what I should do I decided to play around with the Tartaros Terminators. So using the huge stock pile of Cataphracti legs I had been gathering (about 60 or so) I did some dry fits and started to like what I was seeing. Although I am the one to blame using the terminator shoulder pads for truescaling which has no doubt driven people to distraction trying to get them to look right I found that the regular marine pads are more than sufficient in terms of proportions and the MK 3 pads serve to really make this work.

This lead to a test model which was really easy to do and then I made this guy, Kanis Domunis (pigeon latin Imperial Gothic for Dog House) praetor of the Iron Warriors.

http://i63.tinypic.com/v8pu2r.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2ef5iy9.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/otgebs.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/1491j6.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2na90zt.jpg

This is still very much a work in progress with a lot more blending to do,drill out bolter and stuff, but it does set the tone of the piece, Kanis was one of the unlucky ones chosen in the Iron Warriors lottery to be killed by his fellow Astartes. When they came for him it was his personal retinue that had taken it upon themselves to do the job themselves so that he may die with honour, it was to be done with respect. Unfortunately Kanis was unwinding after returning a particularity harsh siege and was unwinding in the practice cages, he had other ideas about this "mark of respect" and mercilessly slew his brothers earning a reprieve of sorts. These fallen comrades I do have plans for...

I think it is very easy to forget that the traitors were once Imperial heroes who helped carve out the fledgling Imperium of Man and very easy to throw them into the moustache twiddling villains category without a second thought. So although these guys will be used as traitors for the most part I still wanted to capture the feel of an Imperial crusade hence the oath of moment on the breath plate and the bases which will be them striding over the ruins of a civilisation be it a world failing to become compliant to Imperial Truth or a ruined Imperial city on their march to Terra.

So with a successful model mostly under my belt I cracked on with the first squad. To me Iron Warriors are in some respects underdogs and the idea of a mass of marines brings back fond memories of the original Heresy games Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine. Battles were often described as seas of coloured armoured marines clashing on vast battle fields, it was epic in every sense of the word.

With this obvious bias in mind I set about the first squad determined to max it out to the full 20 man squad to try and capture this feel, something I hope to form the core of an army which had resulted in the following.

http://i63.tinypic.com/b5s7cm.jpg

Other than the odd test model here and there these guys have been undercoated with black and wet brushed with the bolt metal equivalent whose name escapes me at the moment (lead belcher?). A few here and there have been cleaned up a little and and had a wash of Nuln Oil which I will then go back over with washes to clean it up and add a little grime before I add the scratches and things along with debris to the bases which are Astrogranite texture paint.

Other additions I am working on are this siege dreadnought seen below and a Malcador battle tank which I feel really drives home the theme of siege warfare with it's first world war feel to it (pictures of that later) along with a Knight Titan I am working on for support. To me it's not Heresy without one Titan knocking about!

http://i66.tinypic.com/16tefn.jpg

One of the things I do want to try and sneak into the army is some ethic variation. For an army of armoured behemoths this might seem like a small point but I've never really been a fan of the cookie cutter approach to planetary culture portrayed in 40k. I can sort of rationalise it to a degree in my mind but it seems odd, given our own world as an example, that entire planets that culture applies to that world as a whole when it seems to me that although a theme may be present as a whole I think it should be a bit more diverse in nature even if this is subtle. It's also a bit of a painting challenge to see if I can do the flesh tones correctly.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2zfla1t.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/25hk0vn.jpg

Then lastly (thanks if you are still reading my waffling at this point ) I have a simple conversion for what I might use as militia or Imperial Army allies. Thanks to the Genestealer cults and their STC approved mining garb this makes this design a credible stand in for ship ratings or local forces. Although an incredibly simple conversion it really does work well in my mind and as I am just as likely to use this army in 40k (probably more so to be honest) these make perfect militia or cultist stand ins to bear the brunt of the IW advance.

http://i65.tinypic.com/kbcg7r.jpg

[Luna707]

Beautiful miniatures and insightful commentary. As a hobbiest who has been inspired by your work time and time again, It makes me so happy to see the legend return!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, genuinely appreciate the compliment. I've been keeping and eye on your marines and they are coming along great, keep up the good work! :tu:

[~Drakzilla~]

Beautiful work. I've had ideas for truescalong tossing arround in my head for a while, and this is exactly the approach I would take. Are you planning on branching off into different types of armor at all?

[Son of Carnelian]

I do like reminding myself in my writing that they were all heroes at one time or another. Glad to see you bring that sentiment to life with your models. Fantastic stuff so far! 

[Doghouse]

I do like reminding myself in my writing that they were all heroes at one time or another. Glad to see you bring that sentiment to life with your models. Fantastic stuff so far! 

 

Thanks mate. Yeah I think it is very easy to overlook the idea that these guys were the good guys at one point regardless of how dubious their tactics were that they employed. I expect even the likes of the World Eaters or Night Lords had their moments where they were seen as heroic.

 

Beautiful work. I've had ideas for truescalong tossing arround in my head for a while, and this is exactly the approach I would take. Are you planning on branching off into different types of armor at all?

 

Great stuff, always good to see people having a go at it even if it is just a kill team or an INQ 28 single model. I will have to post how I did the torsos on these guys as it is quite easy to replicate. For the time being I am sticking with the MK 3 armour for these guys purely because I want a mass produced faceless feel to the marines to create a contrast. The way I see it is that in modern times each plate or panel tells a story and a mix of parts is a great way to convey the history and superstition of modern astartes. With the great crusade era though I can personally see the armour as being seen as functional and a plate being discarded in favour of something new when it takes damage.

I was looking at MK 4 using the Tartaros legs but the plastic ones are a lot more heavily panelled than the FW ones and a little shorter than the plastic Cataphracti legs.

[MagicMan]

*Mashes like button furiously*



Enjoyed reading your thoughts and the models are brilliant! Iron Within, brother.

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate, it's always nice to discuss the thought process of how you came to make a decision on a model. Sometimes a model speaks for itself but other times it is good to show people your reasoning on how you came about the idea or what the inspiration behind them are.

[Vairocanum]

Really liking the look and bulk of the Iron Warriors you've made! I think I'll definitely give this a try when you post your instructions. Looking forward to seeing more!

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate :)

 

It's not too hard to reproduce these guys, I'm trying to work a way that by passes any GS work and people can just use plasticard or something instead if need be. 

[lionofjudah]

YES!! The maestro returns!! Super stoked that you've retaken the mantle and are churning out your army to take on Apologists boys in blue!

Having used your technique to make a TS army back in the day it is a labor of love and with these plastic kits it's now affordable and a heck of a lot easier!!!!!

As insaw the plastic Tartaros and mkiii parts I almost returned to the TS fray and sadly decided that I couldn't due to the fact that I almost have a painted army now:)

[Monstra Sumus]

Looking spesh DH.

[Robzilla]

Well damn.

I have resisted truescale for a long, long time.

And now I've just sold my alpha legion to start the army afresh, and here this log goes and tempts me...

 

I have to ask, before I begin my very own descent to truescaling (or at least an attempt at it) how do you do the arms? Are they just standard marine arms, or are you tinkering around a bit there too?

 

Any plans for terminators?

 

Wonderful work here though! Keep it coming!

[Doghouse]

YES!! The maestro returns!! Super stoked that you've retaken the mantle and are churning out your army to take on Apologists boys in blue!

Having used your technique to make a TS army back in the day it is a labor of love and with these plastic kits it's now affordable and a heck of a lot easier!!!!!

As insaw the plastic Tartaros and mkiii parts I almost returned to the TS fray and sadly decided that I couldn't due to the fact that I almost have a painted army now:)

 

 Thanks mate. :) Yeah the original method can be quite intensive but like you say it is an aspect of the hobby in it's own right. You thought about going with a kill team or something along those lines.

 

Looking spesh DH.

 

Thanks mate :)

 

Well damn.

I have resisted truescale for a long, long time.

And now I've just sold my alpha legion to start the army afresh, and here this log goes and tempts me...

 

I have to ask, before I begin my very own descent to truescaling (or at least an attempt at it) how do you do the arms? Are they just standard marine arms, or are you tinkering around a bit there too?

 

Any plans for terminators?

 

Wonderful work here though! Keep it coming!

 

Welcome to the dark side mate. ;)

 

The arms on these guys are just regular MK3 plastics. They are just slightly more bulky than regular marine arms but enough to tip it over into maintaining the proportions kind of, using these kits makes it a lot simpler than using terminator arms. The beauty of truescaling is it is down to artistic interpretation of how you see marines over the stock models, this is just another expression of creativity within the hobby which I really enjoy.

 

I've not got any real plans for Terminators at the moment but something as simple as bulking out the soles of the feet and adding a spacer mid torso might work with these guys.

[torealis]

This is genuinely fantastic work.

[Doghouse]

Thanks mate

I'm focusing on building as many Astartes as possible before cracking on with the proper painting side of the army to begin with and playing around with ideas to see what works. This guy here is a bare bones pre-GS work attempt at one of my first plug in models that I can add to the army as and when I need it rather than being a core inclusion for the force.

Rather than make him an Iron Warrior that idea is that he will be a Word Bearer sent by Lorgar to corrupt the hearts and minds of the Kanis and his men and to initiate them into the Lodges. He is kind of like the devil that sits on their shoulder whispering how the Emperor has failed them and how they can find glory and the respect they deserve within his new Empire.

I want to create a stark contrast between him and the IW. His armour is more ornate and more advanced than the mass produced feel of the IW suits of battle plate. Although I still need to add litanies and the majority of the GS work to blend the parts together it should give you a feel of where I want to go with him. In game he'll be a chaplain but is just thrown together using left over bits.

The Chaplain

http://i65.tinypic.com/2ypkpwz.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/30monfc.jpg

The Apothecary

I don't want to stray too far from the design of the armour so I am trying to keep these guys pretty simple in design. This guy is still an early WIP as I take a break from the production line of building marines (ten models into the second tactical unit now) and I am beginning to start blending the white and toning down the scratches on the model, still a bit messy but it should look ok once it's finished. Other than the simple white torso, helm and pack I'm adding as many pouches as possible to set him apart from his brothers. These guys will form a dual role for the army allowing me to use them as stand in champions for havoc squads in 40k. Once I've finished building all the Astartes I'll go back and start painting these guys properly.

http://i64.tinypic.com/jpykb6.jpg

[Doghouse]

I've had some people ask how I make these guys so have thrown together a quick and easy guide to show how I go about it. Bit on the fly but I'll talk through the process with the pictures.

The Torso

This is the only tricky part to this depending on how difficult you want to make it I guess. This shot is with a Cataphati front plate but the process is pretty much identical. First off I cut the lower part off the back of the MK 4 (you can use other marks, just used this one as I have a ton of them and wanted to make use of the cables) and attach it to the back of the front plate which needs to be cut down a little. You have pieces of plastic that extend back into the Tartaros to allow a better fit so you want to remove those so you can get a nice flush fit with the back part.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2d7wry9.jpg

For my version I have removed the lower cables on the back of the torso then using GS to fill out the back but I am pretty sure you can do the same with a strip of plasticard if you wanted to. As you can see on this proper version the width of the front and back fit up quite nicely, the picture above with the Cataphracti front plate has that nasty over hang on the sides which you won't get with the Tartaros torso.

http://i66.tinypic.com/53ajbc.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2nrimbb.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/noylah.jpg

Then you have the legs which is stupidly easy. As you can see on the picture on the left below I have cut the top of the abdominal area that slots into the torso flat. This was a bit of a rush job so could probably be cut a little lower down to reduce the height a tad. As you can see in the picture below this it's probably just a tiny bit too high but will give you some idea what to aim for if you want to try this.

http://i66.tinypic.com/157lkr6.jpg

The torso is then just attached to the abdominal area I've cut down just like any other marine model. For the belt buckle (which I forgot to include in the rush...) you take the one that comes with the Cataphracti terminators and slice off the tassles below. You then glue this in place and carefully cut the bottom plate off the regular Mk III plastic torso at the belt line and attach it below the buckle. If you are careful you can still use the remaining original MK III marine torso on other models. Alternatively you can just leave the tassles on.

http://i65.tinypic.com/fwlwrl.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/2e39zld.jpg

And that's pretty much it...

This works best with the MK III marines for the arms, back pack and head. Although you may have to slice the neck of the MK III helmet down a tiny bit to bring it down a little so he doesn't have a giraffe neck.

Hopefully that makes sense, been a long day but feel free to leave any questions if you want to.

Remember this doesn't have to be an entire army like I am aiming for. These are relatively simple conversions that would work for kill teams or even a single model for say INQ 28 or just for fun.

[Vairocanum]

Thanks for the tutorial! The chaplain and apothecary look great, looking forward to seeing more.

[lionofjudah]

Grrrr.... Doghouse you just made that so easy... I mean GW did;)

Ahhh... Kill team you say? I've been working on building my Tartaros dudes and not moving quick at all as I've been enjoying the big sized Custodes dudes and thinking about how they are just the right size.

It's a slippery slope from here but I think I'll be pulling the torsos off the Tartaros and giving it a shot with all mkiii/Iv plastic goodies.

LOVE your apothecary!! Excellent execution and I feel like he portrays the simplistic approach of the IVth to a T.

[Augustus b'Raass]

THE MASTER RETURNETH!

 

I´ve always been a fan of your truescale project - you inspired me to do a truescale Word Bearer in 2012, and to do ADB's First Claw in truescale, and I can't ait for more inspiration. Consider yourself subbed (again)!

[Doghouse]

Thanks for the tutorial! The chaplain and apothecary look great, looking forward to seeing more.

 

Thanks mate, sorry it was a bit rushed but hopefully people will be able to get the idea. :)

 

Grrrr.... Doghouse you just made that so easy... I mean GW did;)

Ahhh... Kill team you say? I've been working on building my Tartaros dudes and not moving quick at all as I've been enjoying the big sized Custodes dudes and thinking about how they are just the right size.

It's a slippery slope from here but I think I'll be pulling the torsos off the Tartaros and giving it a shot with all mkiii/Iv plastic goodies.

LOVE your apothecary!! Excellent execution and I feel like he portrays the simplistic approach of the IVth to a T.

 

Thanks mate :)

 

It does make for an interesting project and if you get the chance make sure you start a thread on it so I can check it out. ;)

 

I think that is the most enjoyable aspect of projects like this as you get to give your interpretation of how you see things in the 30k/40k universe. I am seriously old school when it comes to this kind of thing and I do like some aspect of credibility (realism and a game like 40k are a poor mix :D ) to things that I make. For me the Great Crusade is much different beast to the space marines of the 40k era. While each is a still a hero in their own right I think they lack aspects of "modern" marines such as the conditioning and superstition that came in the millennia that followed. In some respects maybe it was a simpler time, I really do like that the black library introduced the concept of Imperial Truth and then there are the snippets of information in the original collected visions book gave me a sense of a mass produced warfare.

Like I mentioned before where you have a 40k marine that is pretty much a brain washed warrior, conditioned and monitored for signs of chaos their 30k counterparts have been made to feel much more human which makes their flaws much more believable so you can see how they came to fall.

I tend to lean to a much more industrialised Imperium without the burden of superstition where a suit of battle plate is just that, a tool that allows an Astartes to become more than the super human he already is. Where as a modern marine reveres his armour, he communes with it's machine spirit and each plate may come from half a dozen different armour marks each with it's own history and spiritual significance.

 

I think this is one of the most important and enjoayble aspects of our hobby, we can debate "facts" and details of this setting we all love from various editions and codexes till the cows come home but at the end of the day your army is just that, your personal vision and insight into how you personally interpret those ideas. It can be as simple as a couple of colours plastered onto a model or as complex and intricate as you want. This is why I like looking at other people's models because it is basically saying "this is how I personally see 40k" and I think that is very cool. 

 

THE MASTER RETURNETH!

 

I´ve always been a fan of your truescale project - you inspired me to do a truescale Word Bearer in 2012, and to do ADB's First Claw in truescale, and I can't ait for more inspiration. Consider yourself subbed (again)!

 

As a long time fan of your marines I take that as a compliment mate. You did a fantastic job on first claw really nice stuff and your Imperial Fists are seriously amazing stuff. :)

 

I hope to get some stuff up soon (maybe the weekend what with real life and stuff) and I am toying around with a Land Raider proxy which is slowly starting to take form.

[Isengrin]

 

(...) I hope to get some stuff up soon (maybe the weekend what with real life and stuff) and I am toying around with a Land Raider proxy which is slowly starting to take form.

Don't tell me you're digging out the old "War Dog" pattern! I'd be thrilled to see that again.

[Doghouse]

I was tempted to but can't seem to find it. I am making something a little different this time but along similar lines, so far it looks interesting.

[Augustus b'Raass]

A truescale Land Raider?? What are you using as a base? A Baneblade?

[binary]

Well the wardog pattern was the inspiration for this

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/mark_kilburn/warhammer/5273647F-C942-4992-B6AB-C66E80DB9C09_zps9gicvysd.jpg

 

And you could always truescale a rhino too

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/mark_kilburn/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/B3AAB8FB-0E0C-4B84-A70C-9002DC8C2E1E_zps3akjerlo.jpg