b1soul Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Three of my fave primarchs... 1. Sanguinius 2. The Khan 3. The Lion What elements do you think should be included in their stories? Early Great Crusade story for each? Or are there other more interesting options? For Sanguinius, maybe a story set on Baal before contact with the Emperor. For the Lion...I'm not sure. Rangdan Xenocides sound really interesting but I believe they're all pre-Lion. For the Khan, I think a story involving the Space Wolves would be very cool. There seems to be a degree of wary respect between the Khan and Russ, and I think it's worth exploring... ‘We cannot be far from the Fifth Legion campaign,’ Russ went on, his eyes narrowing with sudden revelation. ‘Why have our messages not reached the Khan?’ The officer gave him an equivocal look. ‘The storms have been… unnaturally acute in that region. I doubt that anything has penetrated.’ ‘Keep trying,’ urged Russ. ‘Concentrate your efforts there.’ He looked at Gunn. ‘A strange one, Jaghatai, but I’ve never seen a sword handled better. He hasn’t fallen. He can’t have done. Why did I forget him?’ ‘You know that, Xa,’ said the Khan, pressing on. He had not wanted to believe it, not truly. His feelings about Russ had always been mixed – respect for the warrior; exasperation at the boasts, the self-appointed exceptionalism. - Scars Russ shook his head and pressed the segment of board before him, rotating it by ninety degrees. As it clicked back into place, Malcador saw the king’s retainers were now poised to flank his army and execute its cardinal piece. ‘You say exposed,’ said Russ. ‘I say berkutra.’ ‘The hunter’s cut,’ translated Malcador. ‘That’s Chogorian.’ ‘The Khan taught me his name for it,’ said Russ, never one to take another’s virtue for his own. ‘We call it almáttigrbíta, but I like his word better.’ - Vengeful Spirit (this scene doesn't seem consistent with Russ' fury at the Khan in PoD) 'You will come back with me, then.' ‘No. Not yet.’ Russ shook his head. ‘It is best we remain apart, I think. I am still angry with you, brother, and may remember it again. In any case, I am caged here, and there are battles waiting in the void. Horus’ forces are gathering for their final attack – there are reports of Traitor movement from across the segmentum, even as far as Yarant.’ The Khan nodded. ‘Then I will wait for you at the Palace. I told you I wished to fight beside you again, just as we were meant to.’ ‘Be assured,’ said Russ. ‘The day will come.' - PoD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Man, I just want to see some more Horus, he's been a side character since those first 3 books. I'd love for Dan to come back from the dead and write him again, but if not I'd like to say James Swallow (say what you will about his books, the scene where he carves off Erebus' face is the Horus I've been wanting to read about this whole time.) or John French, his Warmaster audio drama was great. I'm sure Chris would do a bang-up job too. After Vengeful Spirit, I hope Graham never writes Horus again, or at least not without some heavy editorial oversight. Horus was a far cry from the tactical genius we've been told he is, to put it kindly. Subject-wise, I'm hoping for something around Ullanor. I want to see Horus' rise to Warmaster, and the reactions of his brothers firsthand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I wouldn't mind a story from the Lion's side of the events that saw Luther expelled, and the effects right after. We've seen a bunch about the aftermath from Luther's side, but little on Johnson's. I wouldn't put James Swallow on the helm of Horus by any means, and certainly not Sanguinius at this point. Fear to Tread ranks among the weakest novels for me. I would like to see John French or maybe Guy Haley do Horus, on account of Warmaster and Twisted, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Angels of caliban kinda touches upon the tension between the Lion and Luther I think the Lion is a tough one. The best story is Dulan...and that's done. How about a story about the Lion's destructiin of the Knight's of Lupus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I want to see Ferrus commanding several legions masterfully, as he's been described to have done, but never actually shown doing so. I want to see why he was considered by some as a potential candidate for Warmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ferrus is like the primarch version of choleric Abaddon...him as Warmaster, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 That's really uncharitable. Our first looks of Ferrus where about him getting confronted by his best buddy becoming a traitor and trying to convert him. He rushed in to bring him to justice, but he was also not fully supported by the others. Its not like he is the only Primarch to get overzealous about something like that. The weird thing is, Ferrus was against the cold-mechanical path his sons were taking. There's plenty of room to show him as composed and trying to steer his Legion in the right direction (something he wanted to dedicate himself further to after Isstvan, but never had the chance). Really, the sample size of Ferrus as a character is far, far too limited right now to make any definitive statements about him, or his suitability as Warmaster. If Guilliman and co had him in such high regards, surely there's more to him than cholera. David Guymer's Primarchs novel will most assuredly shed light on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Kinda feel like novellas Feat of Iron and Promethean Sun were a sort of first pass at this Great Crusade primarch-centric character study for Ferrus and Vulkan. I agree that Ferrus in particular could do with another go. Feat of Iron touches on what DarkChaplain says. The compliance of Gardinaal could be a good one. It's got Ferrus leading a large-scale war effort comprising multiple legion forces and going toe-to-toe with what are described as something like AT-ATs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 The Khan and Russ working together would be interesting. I'd like to see Horus mentoring Fulgrim, or him working with the Lion, with all the tension that entails. There's also a suggestion of Mortarion being a noble sort in a way, before the Heresy. It'd be nice to see something of that, contrasted with bitter memories of Barbarus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaanofWar Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I hope the primarch novel for Corax doesn't exclusively feature his liberation of deliverance. The battle of gate 42 and the scouring of the Scalland Sector are my favorite bits of fluff from Book 3. There's lots of potential for drama and primarch characterization showing the interaction between Horus, Perturabo, Corax and Russ. From the purging of terrans from the legion and the gate 42 thing it's kind of implied Corax was one of the only ones who knew Horus was going to fall to chaos before it happened. How did he know? Was it his gut instinct and/or experience with oppressors at Kiavahr, the way Horus had handled the XIX legion in his absence or did the Emperor give Corax some exclusive information in their private talk? I want to see Ferrus commanding several legions masterfully, as he's been described to have done, but never actually shown doing so. I want to see why he was considered by some as a potential candidate for Warmaster. I recall reading somewhere that after the gate 42 incident, Corax went and teamed up with Vulkan and Ferrus on a joint crusade with Ferrus by seniority being the de facto leader. Can't remember where though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 The Khan and Russ working together would be interesting. I think... 1. An early encounter between the two legions 2. A Scouring-era joint campaign with Russ and the Khan Perhaps Russ and the Khan became "the closest of brothers" during the Scouring A Scouring-era or post-Scouring historian then superimposed that friendship inaccurately upon the Horus Heresy period a la Collected Visions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I think Curze will be hard to do, in the novels there's not a fat lot left uncovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 For me The story on Alpharius should cover the part where Horus discovers him and takes him under his wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 For me The story on Alpharius should cover the part where Horus discovers him and takes him under his wing. That would be cool, especially if it was entirely from perspectives other than Alpharius's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Dorn and the Codex Crisis, post-heresy. You've got an interesting look at the relationship between a grieving Dorn and High Lord Guilliman (maybe with cameos from Russ and Vulkan), you've got the chance to examine the different aspects of Dorn's personality that led to the foundation of the IF, BT and CF. If we're flicking back and forward, you could have glimpses of the assault on the Vengeful Spirit and the Iron Cage. Basically it offers the chance for a novel-length version of that great old post about an IF living through the heresy, crystallised in Dorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ferrus is like the primarch version of choleric Abaddon...him as Warmaster, lol See, that's the problem - there's a complete disconnect between the Ferrus we've been told about by FW, and the version we see in Fulgrim and Feat of Iron. I hope Guymer's book tends towards the brutal, calculating warlord who was one of the principal commanders of the Great Crusade as depicted by Massacre - it kinda seems like the direction they took with him was damage control to some extent in light of the fuming idiot we get in Fulgrim, similar to how he's mentioned by other Primarchs in later BL books as a very different character. Then again, Fulgrim was partially written from the titular Primarch's perspective, so that might explain some of the less than flattering observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ferrus was a hot headed oaf and I've not read anything I consider "concrete" to prove otherwise. Other than other Primarch opinions about him. He was angry ... Angron was angry. He was a great tactician ... Horus was better. He was a smith ... Vulkan and Perturabo were better. He was great with a hammer ... Vulkan was better. He has metal arms ... ok he's good for that at least but it didn't help him getting hacked to pieces after he lost his head. Which lets be honest getting hacked to little bits afterwards is downright embarrassing for a demi god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animal310 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I think Curze will be hard to do, in the novels there's not a fat lot left uncovered. The obvious one for me for Curze is the destruction of Nostramo. Sure its been skirted at before but not in any depth. Angron - would love to see the events that led to the Night of the Wolf and the aftermath and perhaps link it in to Horus turning him. As others have said, Corax's hopefully covers his fall out with Horus. Not sure about the Lion but really hope its nothing on Caliban, too much of that in Decent of Angels. I think the fall out with Luther and the banishment has potential. I really hope ADB is writing at least one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ferrus was a hot headed oaf and I've not read anything I consider "concrete" to prove otherwise. Other than other Primarch opinions about him. He was angry ... Angron was angry. He was a great tactician ... Horus was better. He was a smith ... Vulkan and Perturabo were better. He was great with a hammer ... Vulkan was better. He has metal arms ... ok he's good for that at least but it didn't help him getting hacked to pieces after he lost his head. Which lets be honest getting hacked to little bits afterwards is downright embarrassing for a demi god. Okay, so you only consider sources which reinforce your existing opinion to be 'concrete' (unlike, I don't know...Massacre?) - confirmation bias much? Anyway, this isn't the place to have such a debate - try here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/280658-ferrus-manus-most-redundant-of-primarchs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 My bad regarding the "potential warmaster" thing, I remember thought about it once then misremembered it as being written somewhere in Massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 My bad regarding the "potential warmaster" thing, I remember thought about it once then misremembered it as being written somewhere in Massacre. Pretty sure it was written somewhere in Massacre - something about him not being bothered about Horus getting the role despite his obvious candidacy due to previous experience commanding 'younger' Primarchs & their Legions; which was then corroborated in Tempest where the Ultramarines section mentions 3 main fleets in the early Great Crusade, lead by the Emperor, Horus & Ferrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 the fuming idiot we get in Fulgrim, Great way of putting it I have nothing against the Ferrus character...but he's been written poorly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I want to see horus when he just be found by the Emperor and father and son are fighting together at the forefront of the crusade, maybe with finding Russ thrown in as well so we could see how the father son dynamic changes when horus is no longer the only son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 We definitely deserve novels that demonstrate the tactical brilliance of each Primarch with the tendencies of their Legions (we only get the fluff in the FW books which I LOVE) I'd love to see Angron gradually degenerate from a Gulliman level planner and strategist at the beginning of the slave rebellion to his capture by the Emperor. I'd love seeing the decline of a once brilliant leader gradually lead to plans no better than 'charge the enemy and kill them until they're dead or we are', which eventually leads to them being outmaneuvered and slaughtered in the mountains. Also IMO those FW shorts did the best job with Corax and the Raven Guard. I'd love to hear about some of the missions they prosecuted as a Legion which didn't make it into the official rolls of honor. Maybe the banishment of the predation fleets that eventually became the Carcharodons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I don't think Angron should ever be on Guilliman's level for planning. Even before the reunion he goes decades with the Nails in his head, and while he plans and executes escapes he's mostly stuck fighting, which is a rather less comprehensive education than Roboute's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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