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Sonoftherubric21 Veteran

Sonoftherubric21

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Best use for Haarken Worldclaimer in game?

 

I run a couple units of 10-15 raptors, Mark of Khorne, throw into melee and when/if they drop on table plasma something for damage. Its okay, not great but not awful. Squad leader gets a fist. 

 

Honestly Haarken needs the tiniest little fix: "All raptors within 6 re-roll all attacks" Its the "melee only" part that is holding him back. 

 

 

But arent Raptors a close combat unit? Or should be? It's not really holding him back if that is there intended role

 

 

Raptors are not a "good" close combat unit. They are passable. However, they will never be great for melee with their current rules, the opportunity cost is huge and this is coming from a guy that uses 20-25 in a good number of games. In those squads I always take plasma guns as the mobile firepower makes them threatening to a fair number of units adding some "kick" beyond their melee attacks. Jump units have changed in use, originally years ago in design it was intended to be "melee" but then as of the past 2 editions all jump units can take multiple special weapons and it changed the function to be an in-between unit. 

 

FWIW I messaged the rules team about the next FAQ including a beta rule addendum for Haarken to see if the community gets behind the change. Hopefully the rules team will take this into consideration. Literally all he needs changed is "melee" to "all attacks" and you would see a stark rise in both Raptor use and in use of Haarken in alot of different lists. 

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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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Best use for Haarken Worldclaimer in game?

 

I run a couple units of 10-15 raptors, Mark of Khorne, throw into melee and when/if they drop on table plasma something for damage. Its okay, not great but not awful. Squad leader gets a fist. 

 

Honestly Haarken needs the tiniest little fix: "All raptors within 6 re-roll all attacks" Its the "melee only" part that is holding him back. 

 

 

But arent Raptors a close combat unit? Or should be? It's not really holding him back if that is there intended role

 

 

Raptors are as much a melee unit as Assault Marines or Bikes. Aka barely more than Tacticals or regular Chaos Marines. Warptalons are supposed to be the melee Jump Pack unit but they suck as well with their base attack of 1. Raptors are mobile skirmisher that aren't too afraid to be in melee but don't intend to.

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Sonoftherubric21 Veteran

Sonoftherubric21

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Random side note: After the bolter buff I fully intend on running several 20 man Chaos marine units. 

 

Why you ask?  Assuming this bolter rule becomes official we are looking at......

 

20 man bolter unit, combi on unit leader. 

42 shots, at 24 inchs sitting still on an objective. 

This with Vets for +1 to wound. 
Slannesh mark + 2 CP for cacophony. 
Total of 84 Shots, either with Abbadon re-roll or "let the galaxy burn" full re-rolls. 

for 262 points (including combi!) 

84 shots, Re-rolling ALL misses, wounding on +1, while sitting on a home turf or chaos side of the table objective......

Chaff? what chaff....I don't see no stinkin chaff..... can grind almost anything not T8 off the table with that kind of weight of firepower. 

Edited by Sonoftherubric21
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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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Random side note: After the bolter buff I fully intend on running several 20 man Chaos marine units. 

 

Why you ask?  Assuming this bolter rule becomes official we are looking at......

 

20 man bolter unit, combi on unit leader. 

42 shots, at 24 inchs sitting still on an objective. 

This with Vets for +1 to wound. 

Slannesh mark + 2 CP for cacophony. 

Total of 84 Shots, either with Abbadon re-roll or "let the galaxy burn" full re-rolls. 

for 262 points (including combi!) 

 

84 shots, Re-rolling ALL misses, wounding on +1, while sitting on a home turf or chaos side of the table objective......

 

Chaff? what chaff....I don't see no stinkin chaff..... can grind almost anything not T8 off the table with that kind of weight of firepower. 

 

Pretty overkill against chaff actually if you don't split-fire. With full re-roll that's 40 dead Guardsmen, or 50 dead Cultists, or 40 dead Orks. :biggrin.:

Against T7 Sv3+ it would be 12 damage and against T8 Sv3+ it would 8 damage. :tongue.:

 

As Emperor's Children I could just go with 120 cover ignoring 'bolter' shots at 24" but without the full re-rolls thanks to Noise Marines. :teehee:

Edited by sfPanzer
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Panzer Veteran

Panzer

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Which should be fine as Marines aren't all the same height either and being bigger fits Obsidius Mallex as he's wearing a huge hammer anyway. What's actually important are the proportions which both models have improved compared with the old ones. ;)

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Sonoftherubric21 Veteran

Sonoftherubric21

Posted
Posted

 

Random side note: After the bolter buff I fully intend on running several 20 man Chaos marine units. 

 

Why you ask?  Assuming this bolter rule becomes official we are looking at......

 

20 man bolter unit, combi on unit leader. 

42 shots, at 24 inchs sitting still on an objective. 

This with Vets for +1 to wound. 

Slannesh mark + 2 CP for cacophony. 

Total of 84 Shots, either with Abbadon re-roll or "let the galaxy burn" full re-rolls. 

for 262 points (including combi!) 

 

84 shots, Re-rolling ALL misses, wounding on +1, while sitting on a home turf or chaos side of the table objective......

 

Chaff? what chaff....I don't see no stinkin chaff..... can grind almost anything not T8 off the table with that kind of weight of firepower. 

 

Pretty overkill against chaff actually if you don't split-fire. With full re-roll that's 40 dead Guardsmen, or 50 dead Cultists, or 40 dead Orks. :biggrin.:

Against T7 Sv3+ it would be 12 damage and against T8 Sv3+ it would 8 damage. :tongue.:

 

As Emperor's Children I could just go with 120 cover ignoring 'bolter' shots at 24" but without the full re-rolls thanks to Noise Marines. :teehee:

 

 

Few advantages over the EC however. Objective Secured, big unit of 20, troop slot that helps generate CP.

 

Cost is 262 compared to 190 (if you give all 10 Noise Marines sonic weapons and no additional upgrades) 

 

Advantages to both for sure, and I also use noise marines in addition to the large blobs of chaos marines. :wink: 

 

 

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Deadass Veteran

Deadass

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Noise Marines are troops for the Emperor's Children though, meaning they'll get ObSec and help with CP generation.

But yeah, being >70 points cheaper and having access to full re-rolls for a single Command Point is definetely a considerable advantage.

(You could also go with Iron Warriors legion tactics to ignore cover, but that's beside the point...)

Let us know how you fare with your backfield platoon!

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Sonoftherubric21 Veteran

Sonoftherubric21

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Noise Marines are troops for the Emperor's Children though, meaning they'll get ObSec and help with CP generation.

But yeah, being >70 points cheaper and having access to full re-rolls for a single Command Point is definetely a considerable advantage.

(You could also go with Iron Warriors legion tactics to ignore cover, but that's beside the point...)

Let us know how you fare with your backfield platoon!

 

I definitely will but I want to see vigilus 2 formations and updates before I play chaos in back-to-back games. Eagerly awaiting the big release! 

 

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Deadass Veteran

Deadass

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It'd be cool to see the Bringers of Despair from 7th ed returning, and I don't even think it's that unlikely that we'll see them. After activating the formation, you'd spend a single CP to buff a unit of terminators with WS/BS 2+, the honor guard's ability to intercept hits from friendly characters (or at least Abaddon) and maybe a +1 to Leadership. It'd be super Black Legion-y and a great way to encourage the use of terminators in 8th!

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Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

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A few notes of interest;

 

As far as tons of CSM with Beta Bolter rule I can say I’ve used 10 Intercessors in my Ultramarines firing 40 shots at 30”. I reroll to hit, reroll 1’s to wound and this is done at -1 ap. For about 180 points and 2 cp. ( approx).

 

It’s okay but you do feel it when you go against higher toughness armies or stuff with extreme range. It’s certainly fun though and worth trying with Black Legion. It’s does feel nicer to get the beta Bolters rule off on vehicles, but the problem with chaos is lack of Hurricanes.

 

Haarken: man this guy drives me crazy. I love the model and continue to experiment with him. I tried a medium sized raptor squad ( not too tempting to get rid of in T1) and I gave the champ a Fist since they get to reroll anything. Still a bust. I struggle to match him up against any characters worth their weight in salt. He’s really just a bizarre mash up of rules. Still, I continue to use the guy...as himself lol

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Daemon Prince Marbas Battle-Brother

Daemon Prince Marbas

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I played a game against a Thousand Sons/Alpha Legion list and won due to playing objectives. Black Crusaders is more fun than I thought it'd be. Haarken Worldclaimer is underwhelming rules wise but an intimidating presence on the table. Tried out a Dark Apostle and Exalted Champion with Khorne Berzerkers . Wow, that is a nasty combination took out a Daemon Prince in one fight activation and hadn't gotten to my Chainswords yet. Learnt I need to play up the fast moving infantry aspect of the Black Legion and have some reserves to surprise. Chaos Cultists en masse did not disappoint. I'm looking forward to Abaddon the Despoiler and Shadowspear.
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Prot Venerable Brother

Prot

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I stopped using the Exalted, but yea the Zerkers and D.A. are extremely effective against a fairly wide range of stuff.  

 

Agreed on Haarken. He looks like he's going to tear an army apart. lol  I had mine stuck last time in a squad of Inceptors that kept trolling him. Bad matchup.

 

And Cultists are (unfortunately for me) nearly a staple in Black Legion. 

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Midnightmare Venerable Brother

Midnightmare

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Posted (edited)

Daemon Prince ahoy!!

 

http://i.imgur.com/q5lQqWF.jpg

 

Loads more pics in the link in my sig, but I just had to stick him in our thread too. All this talk of new stuff has really lit a fire under my :cuss to get a’paintin’ :devil:

Edited by Midnight Runner
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