++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

[Sception]

Bubblewrapping is surrounding a vulnerable target with something cheap and sacrificial like cultists. Shooting can generally bypass bubble wraps, but that's range dependant, and melee has to fight through it. It's particularly effective against short range derp strike which has to deploy more than 9" from any enemy models.

 

For example consider combi plasma slaaneshi chaos terminators against a pure shooty renegade knight. Deep striking within rapid fire range, shooting teice with endless cacophony, maybe buffed by some character support (abaddon's rerolls, or a sorcerer's prescience, etc), the terminators have a good chance of bringing down the knight the turn the deep strike in.

 

Now imagine the knight is surrounded by a halo of friendly chaos cultists extending out about 4" from it's base. The terminators need to land 9" away from the cultists, putting them outside rapid fire range of the knight, cutting their firepower against it in half before a single shot has been fired by 'wrapping' the knight in a 'bubble' of expendible cultist bodies. The terminators will now have to roll unrealistically well to bring down the knight, and if it survives its oen shooting will likely remove them in the following turn instead.

 

Again, this tactic is less effective against longer range shooting. It's not too hard to keep a terminators from deploying within 12" of a high value target, it's much harder to keep oblits from deploying within 24". And it's much more effective against melee units. Few units are sadder than warp talons stuck killing conscripts while the centurions safely cowering behind them prepare another round of fire.

[Prot]

Considering the character sniping abilities of most armies nowadays I think you have to love the ability of Abaddon to deep strike. That’s something that Calgar lost and allows you to circumvent a lot of the anti character stuff. But with the BoD detachment you do have the Warlord option to have a reroll all to Termies allowing you to use Abaddon as a fire base commander if you like.

 

If you really want to bubble wrap a deep zone abby then put a large squad of Cultists or marines around him and give them MOS and feel no pain. Trust me no one wants to shoot through that. I can tell you first hand.

 

I think the Havoc combo is a real deal. It may bring back Rhinos though as with only 5 models it’s difficult to keep alive. Don’t forget that the +2 to wound on those chain guns is going to be something that is wounding Knights on a 3+ and Renegades can’t do that.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Prot

[Biaz]

Can anyone tell me the colour GW uses to highlight their new BL models to get that blue-black look? I think it's delicious.

[Marshal Loss]

Can anyone tell me the colour GW uses to highlight their new BL models to get that blue-black look? I think it's delicious.

 

Tweet to Max Faleij, he often helps folks out on twitter. If I recall from his VoxCast interview there is some Incubi Darkness in there but that's all I know

[Lord Zharak]

Can anyone tell me the colour GW uses to highlight their new BL models to get that blue-black look? I think it's delicious.

 

In the Haarken video warhammer community put out on youtube they use Thunderhawk Blue and then use Fenrisian Grey to pick out the corners

[Lagrath]

Considering the character sniping abilities of most armies nowadays I think you have to love the ability of Abaddon to deep strike. That’s something that Calgar lost and allows you to circumvent a lot of the anti character stuff. But with the BoD detachment you do have the Warlord option to have a reroll all to Termies allowing you to use Abaddon as a fire base commander if you like.

 

If you really want to bubble wrap a deep zone abby then put a large squad of Cultists or marines around him and give them MOS and feel no pain. Trust me no one wants to shoot through that. I can tell you first hand.

 

I think the Havoc combo is a real deal. It may bring back Rhinos though as with only 5 models it’s difficult to keep alive. Don’t forget that the +2 to wound on those chain guns is going to be something that is wounding Knights on a 3+ and Renegades can’t do that.

VOTLW is +1, where is the other one from? Anyway, I made lots of lists today and spent hours brainstorming (other lists at my Facebook blog, link in sig) and am really tempted to run this version with Abbadon:

 

Black Legion Battalion 5 CP 

-Abbadon the Despoiler [Warlord +2 CP]

-Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, force sword, combi-bolter, mark of tzeentch, relic: Angel's Bane, warlord trait: trusted war-leader (-1 CP), powers: prescience, death hex

-10x Chaos Terminators, chain axes, combi-bolters, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

 

Alpha Legion Spearhead +1 CP (Devastation Battery -1 CP)

-Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, force sword, combi-bolter, mark of slaanesh, powers: prescience, delightful agonies

-Chaos Lord, chainsword, combi-bolter, field commander warlord trait: armor bane (-1 CP)

-3x Obliterators, mark of slaanesh

-5x Havocs, rotator cannons, mark of slaanesh

-5x Havocs, rotator cannons, mark of slaanesh

 

Red Corsairs Battalion (+8 CP)

-Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor, power sword, relic: Maelstrom's Bite (-1 CP)

-Chaos Lord, chainsword, bolt pistol

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

 

15 CP after paying for pregame strats

[Furnace Lord]

How do you plan to use the cultists? I haven't run any and am curious if 10 can do much, or if it's just for cheap CP and obsec, and maybe fearless running near Abaddon?

[Lagrath]

How do you plan to use the cultists? I haven't run any and am curious if 10 can do much, or if it's just for cheap CP and obsec, and maybe fearless running near Abaddon?

 

Sacrifice to push out deep strikes if needed, bubble wrap characters against flyer sniping, or spread out in the back to prevent backfield outflanking and deep striking. 

[Furnace Lord]

Thanks Lagrath. 10 are so cheap I was considering grabbing some as I expand my army.

[Prot]

 

Considering the character sniping abilities of most armies nowadays I think you have to love the ability of Abaddon to deep strike. That’s something that Calgar lost and allows you to circumvent a lot of the anti character stuff. But with the BoD detachment you do have the Warlord option to have a reroll all to Termies allowing you to use Abaddon as a fire base commander if you like.

 

If you really want to bubble wrap a deep zone abby then put a large squad of Cultists or marines around him and give them MOS and feel no pain. Trust me no one wants to shoot through that. I can tell you first hand.

 

I think the Havoc combo is a real deal. It may bring back Rhinos though as with only 5 models it’s difficult to keep alive. Don’t forget that the +2 to wound on those chain guns is going to be something that is wounding Knights on a 3+ and Renegades can’t do that.

VOTLW is +1, where is the other one from? Anyway, I made lots of lists today and spent hours brainstorming (other lists at my Facebook blog, link in sig) and am really tempted to run this version with Abbadon:

 

Black Legion Battalion 5 CP 

-Abbadon the Despoiler [Warlord +2 CP]

-Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, force sword, combi-bolter, mark of tzeentch, relic: Angel's Bane, warlord trait: trusted war-leader (-1 CP), powers: prescience, death hex

-10x Chaos Terminators, chain axes, combi-bolters, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

-10x Cultists, mark of slaanesh

 

Alpha Legion Spearhead +1 CP (Devastation Battery -1 CP)

-Sorcerer in Terminator Armor, force sword, combi-bolter, mark of slaanesh, powers: prescience, delightful agonies

-Chaos Lord, chainsword, combi-bolter, field commander warlord trait: armor bane (-1 CP)

-3x Obliterators, mark of slaanesh

-5x Havocs, rotator cannons, mark of slaanesh

-5x Havocs, rotator cannons, mark of slaanesh

 

Red Corsairs Battalion (+8 CP)

-Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor, power sword, relic: Maelstrom's Bite (-1 CP)

-Chaos Lord, chainsword, bolt pistol

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

-5x Chaos Space Marines, combi-bolter, bolters, mark of slaanesh

 

15 CP after paying for pregame strats

 

 

 

I agree this is what a lot of shooty chaos will kind of look like. But I know personally I would make sure to have DP's in there. They're still one of the strongest units available to Chaos.

 

I think funner lists will gravitate to Daemon engines, but I still want MoP's with my Kytan to test out.

 

Although I'm still not sure about CSM in competitive play. I will use them, but I don't know if they'll break out in any respectable way in tournaments unless the FAQ does something significant. In my games with the new rules they've been pretty easily erased... as easily as cultists.

 

Cultists still rule with Abe. The sad thing is that I think it still pushes those builds towards expensive HQ's, dirt cheap Cultists, and BoD helps that as well. People hate shooting fearless cultists. It's like punching a sack of jello as hard as you can... sure that Jello's dead, but there's always more.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Your point is a good one, but your metaphor needs work - from my experience, there is rarely more jello. :P

[techsoldaten]

 

Although I'm still not sure about CSM in competitive play. I will use them, but I don't know if they'll break out in any respectable way in tournaments unless the FAQ does something significant. In my games with the new rules they've been pretty easily erased... as easily as cultists.

 

Cultists still rule with Abe. The sad thing is that I think it still pushes those builds towards expensive HQ's, dirt cheap Cultists, and BoD helps that as well. People hate shooting fearless cultists. It's like punching a sack of jello as hard as you can... sure that Jello's dead, but there's always more.

 

 

It's going to take a while to sort out what a competitive Chaos list will look like. Right now, I don't think anyone honestly has a vision for what one will look like.

 

I've been approaching the question through deduction. The toughest opponents for me in 8th edition, right now, are Imperial Knights, Dark Eldar and Orks. I spent part of the weekend thinking about what to do against each.

 

- Imperial Knights: Double Termite Assault Drills with 3x Havoc squads and deep-striking Obliterators. I usually face 3 Knights and some Armigers, having my main assault force off the table first turn means I can get a jump on them. There's a lot of ways I could build around this.

 

- Dark Eldar: Bloodletter Bombs to eat Talos' and Mandrakes. Seriously, those units are more of a problem for me than Disintegrator Cannons. The new Shrine means a 4+ invul save to keep troops around longer. The rest of the list needs to be anti-air and there's a number of options for how to do that.

 

- Orks: Double Lord Dischordants surrounded by anything that's resistant to small arms fire. I could go all-in on Daemon Engines, I could go mass-cultists.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Considering the character sniping abilities of most armies nowadays I think you have to love the ability of Abaddon to deep strike. That’s something that Calgar lost and allows you to circumvent a lot of the anti character stuff. But with the BoD detachment you do have the Warlord option to have a reroll all to Termies allowing you to use Abaddon as a fire base commander if you like.

 

If you really want to bubble wrap a deep zone abby then put a large squad of Cultists or marines around him and give them MOS and feel no pain. Trust me no one wants to shoot through that. I can tell you first hand.

 

I think the Havoc combo is a real deal. It may bring back Rhinos though as with only 5 models it’s difficult to keep alive. Don’t forget that the +2 to wound on those chain guns is going to be something that is wounding Knights on a 3+ and Renegades can’t do that.

Double stacking 2x5 Havocs in a Rhino looks pretty strong. Turn 1, hit the Rhino with the -1 to hit Prayer from a Dark Apostle, then advance and pop smoke. Turn 2, deploy where a deep striking Termie or Raptor Lord is conveniently going to arrive, and/or use appropriate strats. After that, well, you've got a bullet with your opponent's name on  and you're going to keep firing until you find out which one it is. :)

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

Although I'm still not sure about CSM in competitive play. I will use them, but I don't know if they'll break out in any respectable way in tournaments unless the FAQ does something significant. In my games with the new rules they've been pretty easily erased... as easily as cultists.

 

Cultists still rule with Abe. The sad thing is that I think it still pushes those builds towards expensive HQ's, dirt cheap Cultists, and BoD helps that as well. People hate shooting fearless cultists. It's like punching a sack of jello as hard as you can... sure that Jello's dead, but there's always more.

 

 

It's going to take a while to sort out what a competitive Chaos list will look like. Right now, I don't think anyone honestly has a vision for what one will look like.

 

I've been approaching the question through deduction. The toughest opponents for me in 8th edition, right now, are Imperial Knights, Dark Eldar and Orks. I spent part of the weekend thinking about what to do against each.

 

- Imperial Knights: Double Termite Assault Drills with 3x Havoc squads and deep-striking Obliterators. I usually face 3 Knights and some Armigers, having my main assault force off the table first turn means I can get a jump on them. There's a lot of ways I could build around this.

 

- Dark Eldar: Bloodletter Bombs to eat Talos' and Mandrakes. Seriously, those units are more of a problem for me than Disintegrator Cannons. The new Shrine means a 4+ invul save to keep troops around longer. The rest of the list needs to be anti-air and there's a number of options for how to do that.

 

- Orks: Double Lord Dischordants surrounded by anything that's resistant to small arms fire. I could go all-in on Daemon Engines, I could go mass-cultists.

 

 

Yeah....double Discordants will devour Orks, especially if you give one of them the mecha serpents, give the other the Spineshiver Blade, and mount Baleflamers on both. Back them with Lasher Fiends and go to town.

 

Red Tide Bloodletters are gonna be pretty gross....when that first Banner of Blood charge hits, everything else turns into an avalanche. For anti-air and also some extra punch, I'd consider going Host Raptoral, dropping in a bunch of Khorne Warp Talons with +2 to charge, rerolling if near your Khorne Daemon HQ's, and no overwatch. Then use a combo of Vets, the Crimson Crown and the Herald strength bonus to just rip flyers out of the sky.

[Sception]

 

Can anyone tell me the colour GW uses to highlight their new BL models to get that blue-black look? I think it's delicious.

 

In the Haarken video warhammer community put out on youtube they use Thunderhawk Blue and then use Fenrisian Grey to pick out the corners

 

 

Abaddon video uses Dark Reaper, then Thunderhawk, then Fenrisian.  Doesn't look as blue as some of the pictures, though.

 

[techsoldaten]

Yeah....double Discordants will devour Orks, especially if you give one of them the mecha serpents, give the other the Spineshiver Blade, and mount Baleflamers on both. Back them with Lasher Fiends and go to town.

 

Red Tide Bloodletters are gonna be pretty gross....when that first Banner of Blood charge hits, everything else turns into an avalanche. For anti-air and also some extra punch, I'd consider going Host Raptoral, dropping in a bunch of Khorne Warp Talons with +2 to charge, rerolling if near your Khorne Daemon HQ's, and no overwatch. Then use a combo of Vets, the Crimson Crown and the Herald strength bonus to just rip flyers out of the sky.

 

 

Yes... and consider the cost.

 

For about 800 points, I can field that Bloodletter Bomb and pretty much know what it's going to do to most armies. There's still 1200 points of support to build around it.

 

For about the same cost, I can field a Soulforged Pack including those Lord Dischordants and a bunch of Daemon Engines. There's ways to go nuts with that.

 

Not sure if it's intentional, but most of the new detachments have a strong offensive build that costs between 750 and 900 points. The Cult of the Damned is an exception, it's cheaper.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

The cost is probably intentional for most of those detachments so that they become a "plug and play"  1000 points or so that new players can stand up fairly quickly and have fun building with a theme. Then when they get one more together and fill any point gaps with Red Corsairs regular CSM, they have a 2000 point army.

[Furnace Lord]

Question: If I give a Lord Discordant the Sightless Helm relic, does it affect all attacks including his mechadendrites and the mount's attacks, or only his chainglaive?

[Closet Skeleton]

I got burned out on my Genestealer Cults after losing 4 games at a tournament last weekend, so I need a break before I use them again and have a tournament mid april.

 

So probably a good time to try the new chaos. I don't have the money to buy a new army though, so any 30 possessed 9 mutilators + master of possession, slaanesh herald, exalted champion, daemon prince and greater possessed death wall ideas will be shelved.

 

I do kind of want to use possessed and slaanesh herald + 3 fiends in a vanguard detachment and might fit my mutilators in there too but I also want to just try a terminator army.

[Prot]

A couple of really good points are made above but I don’t want to litter the thread with quotes.... butjust a few thoughts...

A competitive version of Black Legion is certainly in the air, but a few things I’ve considered going forward;

- is Abaddon going to be a huge competitive option? Yes he’s a beat stick and he’s fine, but the new Warlord trait that essentially allows you to upgrade a Termie Sorc into a chapter master is incredibly efficient.

 

- Daemon engines have been driving me nuts in my last 3-4 games. Ive been using MoPs and Venom Crawlers, where I used to use Maulers and Defilers. I just faced off against DE and Tau yesterday.... so frustrating hitting on 5’s.

 

- Forgeworld unit’s will probably still be upper level competitive ‘go to’ options. I miss my Decimators and I still want to try my Kytan with a MoP or Disco Lord list.

 

- tons of flavour now. I think I just was a little deflated at first reaction because I was so impressed by new Termies and CSM I really thought they’d get better with the new releases, and Vigilus. I still can’t heo but feel it’s a missed opportunity.

 

Otherwise to use CSM it’s really worth testing a Corsairs Detachment with the recycle Strat + the bonus CP.

 

So for now I’m leaning towards a hard, medium range army type. I love that this stuff has kind of brought back Rhinos and Marines/ Havocs as a real option.

[Brother Talarian]

Is it reasonable to expect certain rule changes/updates post adepticon and added in the FAQ?

 

Or is it primarily reserved for points changes.

 

E.g. making all termies T5 or the like.

[Sception]

I wouldnt expect rule changes, especially not f or us so soon. If they were going to make all terminators t5 a month from now they wouldnt be printing ours at t4 this week.

[Brother Talarian]

I see your point, it was more a general question on what type of rule changes to expect.

 

As an aside, they could have printed the book months ago but will realized X needs change as it’s never seen on the tabletop.

[Biaz]

 

 

Can anyone tell me the colour GW uses to highlight their new BL models to get that blue-black look? I think it's delicious.

 

In the Haarken video warhammer community put out on youtube they use Thunderhawk Blue and then use Fenrisian Grey to pick out the corners

 

 

Abaddon video uses Dark Reaper, then Thunderhawk, then Fenrisian.  Doesn't look as blue as some of the pictures, though.

 

Hidden Content

 

Awesome, thanks folks!

 

That vid is a good watch.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Biaz

[Subtle Discord]

I wouldnt expect rule changes, especially not f or us so soon. If they were going to make all terminators t5 a month from now they wouldnt be printing ours at t4 this week.

Remember that the choice of what goes to print happens many months in advance, but an FAQ can respond to a perceived problem very quickly if the timing is right, and typos are not completely unheard of, if rare. Not saying you're wrong by any stretch just that some decisions could have been made 6+ months ago.