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++ The Bringers of Despair - A Black Legion Community ++

Luna Wolves Legion Lunar Wolves Legion Sons of Horus Legion Black Legion XVI Legion Legio XVI Chaos Space Marines Heretic Astartes

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#801
Furnace Lord

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I'm considering giving Council of Traitors a try. What traits have worked best for everyone? I was thinking of using Trusted Warleader and Reader of Fate (Daemonkin traits are legal to use on sorcerers I hope). Also, if Abaddon is my Warlord and I use this does he just automatically get First Among Traitors?

#802
Closet Skeleton

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Abaddon of course gets First Among Traitors but you have to make him/a lord/a prince the warlord before you use the stratagem so that's actually irrelevant.

 

I used Warp Lord or Arch Sorcerer depending on whether or not I thought I needed 3 powers since the tournament I was at didn't force me to use the stratagem on my army list. Then I used Trusted Warleader on the Dark Apostle. No point on having Reader of Fate and Trusted Warleader and Warp Lord is way better than Reader of Fate.


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#803
Sception

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As of the new faq, you can only gain a single cp per turn regardless of source, so yeah, reader of fate and trusted war leader are likely to step on each others toes.
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#804
Prot

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I like to do this experiment.... where I blow a CP to give my Sorc a Warlord trait (I don't really like the Dark Apostles), and I always give him War Leader and see if I can make it work. If I keep the sorc in reserve, I find I usually end up getting only 1 CP back typically making it a wash. Last night is one of the first games since the new 'dex that I reclaimed a CP once every battle round for 5 battle rounds. Which of course would indicate my Sorc lived 5 turns which in itself is minor miracle.

 

I had a phenomenal game vs a very competitive GSC army. Literally came down to the last turn and it was something where I was trying to be competiive with a 'codex' Black Legion list... what a brawl. So... much.. .death. :)


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#805
Balthamal

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I'm considering giving Council of Traitors a try. What traits have worked best for everyone? I was thinking of using Trusted Warleader and Reader of Fate (Daemonkin traits are legal to use on sorcerers I hope). Also, if Abaddon is my Warlord and I use this does he just automatically get First Among Traitors?

 

I'm going to try running a comp list involving a chainlord so current plan is to have first among traitors on the apostle and warp lord on the sorc to ensure prescience gets off for hilarious DttFE rolls. That's more or less the mandatory build for full chainlord anyway tbh so we'll see how it goes.

 

Second list idea is to have a Red Corsair spearhead with 3 rapiers to cheese the bonus CPS, have Abaddon as the Warlord and half a chainlord with jump pack and a terminator sorc on hand for prescience. Undecided on the delivery mechanism for them as yet though since the apostle can't deep strike. Don't particularly want to run the Big Black Fun Bus since that's going to eat a mountain out of the points. Shall report back again with performance but I expect the chainlord to wreck everything he touches if he survives the commute to market


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#806
Furnace Lord

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As of the new faq, you can only gain a single cp per turn regardless of source, so yeah, reader of fate and trusted war leader are likely to step on each others toes.

Good catch, I had completely missed that.



#807
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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I'm considering giving Council of Traitors a try. What traits have worked best for everyone? I was thinking of using Trusted Warleader and Reader of Fate (Daemonkin traits are legal to use on sorcerers I hope). Also, if Abaddon is my Warlord and I use this does he just automatically get First Among Traitors?

 

I'm going to try running a comp list involving a chainlord so current plan is to have first among traitors on the apostle and warp lord on the sorc to ensure prescience gets off for hilarious DttFE rolls. That's more or less the mandatory build for full chainlord anyway tbh so we'll see how it goes.

 

Second list idea is to have a Red Corsair spearhead with 3 rapiers to cheese the bonus CPS, have Abaddon as the Warlord and half a chainlord with jump pack and a terminator sorc on hand for prescience. Undecided on the delivery mechanism for them as yet though since the apostle can't deep strike. Don't particularly want to run the Big Black Fun Bus since that's going to eat a mountain out of the points. Shall report back again with performance but I expect the chainlord to wreck everything he touches if he survives the commute to market

 

Cant' do the Rapier Cheese anymore. The FAQ for that Index removed "CHAOS SPACE MARINES" from the crew.


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#808
Balthamal

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Good catch. That's disappointing to say the least. Was looking forward to a 20 CP army



#809
techsoldaten

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I'm considering giving Council of Traitors a try. What traits have worked best for everyone? I was thinking of using Trusted Warleader and Reader of Fate (Daemonkin traits are legal to use on sorcerers I hope). Also, if Abaddon is my Warlord and I use this does he just automatically get First Among Traitors?

 

I'm going to try running a comp list involving a chainlord so current plan is to have first among traitors on the apostle and warp lord on the sorc to ensure prescience gets off for hilarious DttFE rolls. That's more or less the mandatory build for full chainlord anyway tbh so we'll see how it goes.

 

Second list idea is to have a Red Corsair spearhead with 3 rapiers to cheese the bonus CPS, have Abaddon as the Warlord and half a chainlord with jump pack and a terminator sorc on hand for prescience. Undecided on the delivery mechanism for them as yet though since the apostle can't deep strike. Don't particularly want to run the Big Black Fun Bus since that's going to eat a mountain out of the points. Shall report back again with performance but I expect the chainlord to wreck everything he touches if he survives the commute to market

 

Cant' do the Rapier Cheese anymore. The FAQ for that Index removed "CHAOS SPACE MARINES" from the crew.

 

 

Huh?

 

The faction keywords still say Heretic Astartes and <LEGION>. 

 

I think I am missing the point. They can certainly be included in a detachment, what is it you can't do with them?



#810
radionausea

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The cheese was using them as Red Corsairs and because they had the CHAOS SPACE MARINE keyword you got an extra 3CP for having three of them.

#811
Balthamal

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So caved and chucked a Red Corsair battalion in for the extra 8 CPs. 20 man squad with a couple of chaincannons buffed with -1 to hit (apostle) and delightful agonies took a massive beating and still kept coming - ironically they lost 14/15 to a chain lord and that 1 5+++ meant they rebooted the following turn. 

 

Torn on running Abaddon in future, Chainlord killed him in 1 round with mortal wounds alone who is now auto-include in any competitive build even if it's a supreme command detachment to benefit from council of traitors which actually performed quite well, the rerolling 1s on psychic tests is pretty good and managed to get a CP back every turn through trusted war leader on the apostle. Main problem with a body heavy list of cultists was the lack of shooting to get through a plague wall so next time going to run 3 quad heavy bolters to shred the screens.

 

Oblits not really worth the points now imo - for the extra points can give the terminators combi-plasmas and bulk them out to 10 to run with Abaddon and the sorcerer. Also worth noting the Bringers of Despair detachment is rock solid, cheap auto pass morale strat and the double wounds in combat is savage, with a bit of clever play stacking that with merciless fighters and Votlw will blow most things off the board


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#812
Dallas Drake

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Hey guys, I need a bit of advice from Black Legion players. I sold my BL a few years back and with the new release I've decided to redo them. I'm really into the idea of running Berzerkers and Possessed and playing a Hounds of Abaddon style melee list as my Death Guard play very differently. I'm going to convert all the models using various bits (Berzerkers using Blood Warriors and new CSM models / Possessed using the better parts of the old kit and Primaris as well as many, many other bits from GSC and greenstuff).

 

I know I want a MoP in a Dreadclaw with the Possessed and a ChainLord for the horde clearing, but beyond that I have a free reign what to add.

 

So... if you guys were running a 1500 point Black Legion assault list what would you include and why?



#813
MegaVolt87

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Hey guys, I need a bit of advice from Black Legion players. I sold my BL a few years back and with the new release I've decided to redo them. I'm really into the idea of running Berzerkers and Possessed and playing a Hounds of Abaddon style melee list as my Death Guard play very differently. I'm going to convert all the models using various bits (Berzerkers using Blood Warriors and new CSM models / Possessed using the better parts of the old kit and Primaris as well as many, many other bits from GSC and greenstuff).

 

I know I want a MoP in a Dreadclaw with the Possessed and a ChainLord for the horde clearing, but beyond that I have a free reign what to add.

 

So... if you guys were running a 1500 point Black Legion assault list what would you include and why?

 

Just theory hammered this the other day, as a start to a 2K BL list, BUT I think this would be better at 1500pts than 2000 pts. Idea its 30K reavers in 40k. At 2k, I would probably add termi's as Justarian. I figure these to be Abaddon's buddies from back in the day- 

 

CSM BLACK LEGION        Vanguard detachment                                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                               

HQ- Chas Lord  

Chaos Lord with jump pack                                                         

WARLORD, TRAIT- VETERAN RAIDER                                                                                      

RELIC- GHORISVEX'S TEETH                                         

Chainsword                                                       

Plasma Pistol                                                     

Total Points                                                                        98

                                                                                               

HQ- Dark Apostle                                                                                            

Dark Apostle                                                     

Accursed crozius                                                                             

bolt pistol                                                           

PRAYERS                                                                                             

DARK ZELOTRY                                                                                 

ILLUSORY SUPPLICATION                                                                                            

Total points                                                                        100

                                                                                               

Elite- Chosen                                                                                    

                                                                                               

10 Chosen                                                                          

4 Plasma Pistol                                                                 

9 chain axe                                                         

Champion, Power axe + Plasma pistol                                                                   

Total Points                                                                        179        

                                                                                              

Elite- Chosen                                                                                    

                                                                                               

10 Chosen                                                          

4 Plasma Pistol                                                                 

9 chain axe                                                                         

Champion, Power axe + Plasma pistol                                                                   

Total Points                                                                        179        

                                                                                               

Elite- Chosen                                                                                    

                                                                                               

10 Chosen                                                                          

4 Plasma Pistol                                                                 

9 chain axe                                                                         

Champion, Power axe + Plasma pistol                                                   

Total Points                                                                                        179

                                                                                               

Heavy Support- Hellforged Land Raider Proteus                                                                               

                                                                                               

Hellforged Land Raider Proteus                                                                                

Twin lascannon                                                                                

Twin lascannon                                                                                

Twin lascannon                                                                

Total Points                                                                        345

                                                                                               

Lord of war detachment                                                                              

Lord of War- Hellforged Spartan Assault Tank                                                                                    

                                                                                               

Hellforges Spartan Assauult tank                                                                             

Laser Destroyer                                                               

Laser Destroyer                                                                                               

Twin Heavy bolter                                                                          

Total Points                                                                                        437

                                                                                                                               

ARMY TOTAL POINTS                                                                                     1,517


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#814
Prot

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@Balthamal, those are some interesting findings. Do you think BoD and Termies are something you’d take in competitive play?

I’ve had such bad luck I’ve pulled them for a while. I eventually just went down to basic axes and Combi-Bolters. The last few times I played them vs Genestealer Cult they get wrecked so easily. That was kind of my final straw but I do miss them.

Abaddon is a tough call as I love the model but I will say in his defence that a chainlord or smash Captain is going to wreck a lot of stuff... and them die. For me it’s one thing to prepare for that but I’m finding all the anti character stuff is almost getting ridiculous. A big model like Abe attracts a lot of snipe mechanisms now.

@Megavolt, I’m nit that familiar with those Forgeworld units but it looks like a fun, thematic list! Very different. I miss the old days when Landraiders felt imposing and were so symbolic.

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#815
MegaVolt87

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Well I think at 1500pts you won't be making friends with that list. At 2K I think most people would be able to deal with it much better and would not care if they played against it. 8th ed feels way more unbalanced below 2000pts, IMO seems the game was balanced at 2K+ points. I also built the list on the basis of thematic/ narrative, not OP, just ends up that way hitting the narrative I was going for below 2K points. 


Edited by MegaVolt87, 08 May 2019 - 03:08 AM.

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#816
Balthamal

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@Balthamal, those are some interesting findings. Do you think BoD and Termies are something you’d take in competitive play?

I’ve had such bad luck I’ve pulled them for a while. I eventually just went down to basic axes and Combi-Bolters. The last few times I played them vs Genestealer Cult they get wrecked so easily. That was kind of my final straw but I do miss them.

Abaddon is a tough call as I love the model but I will say in his defence that a chainlord or smash Captain is going to wreck a lot of stuff... and them die. For me it’s one thing to prepare for that but I’m finding all the anti character stuff is almost getting ridiculous. A big model like Abe attracts a lot of snipe mechanisms now.

@Megavolt, I’m nit that familiar with those Forgeworld units but it looks like a fun, thematic list! Very different. I miss the old days when Landraiders felt imposing and were so symbolic.

 

My club is running a league over the next few months and though I'm in 1 of the lower divisions the standard of player is actually fairly high so running them will be a good test. I think with the list I'm including them in (inc a RC battalion for the CP windfall) they can work very well. Obviously that will vary depending on whatever armies I'm going toe to toe with but in isolation, they're incredible screen killers - and with the plasma can lay down pain against more tasty targets. The main issue with them, and always will be really is that they need a turn of setting up in one form or another. From deep strike they may bomb a charge and out of a transport they can't be buffed with apostle powers/chosen of the pantheon leaving the choice to mark them from the off but choosing between having them all fight twice and a 5+++ is rough. Obliterators will obviously do more damage against high T/high W targets but the terminators have wider applications for what are essentially the same points and if you've got Abaddon leading them it's just tilted further in their favor - re-rolling all misses brings Plasma Overcharge into play with a relatively small chance of failure in comparison to a regular lord.

 

For the BoD detachment as a whole, the warlord trait isn't amazing and at best it's 3rd choice behind Flames of Spite on the chainlord and having someone rocking First Among Traitors for any Imperials whilst it's completely redundant with Abaddon in the army anyway. The strats are quite interesting - the 1 is again worthless with Abaddon because of his fearless bubble but without him, having a 1CP auto pass morale can be mighty handy. The other, combat wounds counting as double for morale just add to the terminators ability to mince screening units, even tough ones like plaguebearers forcing a tough choice between losing potentially the whole unit or eating 3 CPs to keep them in play. A note on the relic - in practice you'd only really want it on a lord but I had 1 tuned up with Diabolic Strength attacking imperials and he murderised them very, VERY hard. The +1 to hit to tag DttFE is tasty to say the least and him chipping away at S9, well he'd have been wounding knights on 2s.

 

My list as a whole will be

 

BoD Batt

Abaddon

Term Sorc

Apostle

10 Terms - Chainaxe/Power Axe Combi plas

10 cultists x3

 

Red Corsair Batt

Jump Lord w/ Hammer

Jump Sorc

5 CSM w/autocannon

5 CSM w/autocannon

20 CSM w/ 2 Chaincannons

 

BL Spearhead

Half-Chainlord (no warlord trait)

3 C-beam Rapiers

 

That's rocking 19 CPs to start though the BoD and Council of Traitors will knock that down but then the apostle will get the refund on 5+ trait so should get some back. Sorcerer is a toss up between Prescience (for the terminators to split fire their combi weapons effectively or against Imperials for the chainlord to get his bonus attacks off) Diabolic strength (Abaddon or the chainlord with this become even more brutal) or Delightful agonies for the 5+++. Weaver of fates is good but personally I favour a FNP over improved invuln when mortal wounds are a thing and him having the trait to re-roll 1s for tests (both cast and deny) has already proved it's worth. Rapiers can hit screens or big creatures depending on what presents itself. Cultists will screen, CSM will hold backfield, big blob will wander around as and when it's needed with the jump duo providing support and if they look like dying, well up they pop at full strength elsewhere. I'll likely run the chainlord behind them, from playing him he needs to be on the board rather than deep striking really unless it's Imperials then I'll run him with Abaddon to get the bonus attacks ticking over easier. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how it does. 

 

 

Also Jesus Christ Volt, a Spartan at 1500? Definitely be off the Christmas card list hitting someone with that. Having said that, if you're taking the Spartan just give the Chainlord his full load out with Flames of Spite as well.



#817
Brother Talarian

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Would benediction of darkness and miasma of pestilence stack?

I’m thinking of footslogging a blob of termies and feel like -2 would greatly add to their survivability.

Use CoP for potential 5+++ and 4++ as well... could be fun :)

As a side note I’ve played several games with 10 combi plas termies and they’re mean as hell. If your spells fail to go off though they lack survivability.

They’re also fantastic I’m CC with chainaxes (depending on what they’re swinging at) next to Abby, and prescience and merciless killers they can pump a solid amount of attacks against any Imperium unit. With Vets at str 5 they’re munching through most things :)

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#818
Daemon Prince Marbas

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Have you had any success with close combat Black Legion armies?

#819
Charlo

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So with Abaddon and other easy Ld buffs the Black Legion benefit from... Are blobs of CSM viable for them?

Red Corsairs seem the obvious ones to blob up with but just thinking of the options...

#820
Syrakul

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My Black legion is all 30k SoH style (just rolling with it at this point) and just got the parts to do this finally; Lascannon Havocs, matching the new statline.

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#821
Scourged

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Thanks for posting that, Syrakul. I'm in the same boat with my alpha legion, and had the same idea for a conversion. Now I can see that yes the idea does work. Awesome.

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#822
Syrakul

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No problem! They are almost totally built now:
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I had to splash out for a whole justaerin kit of course but ill use the torso/shoulderpads to redo an old squad of cataphractii Ive got half done.
They are a full head over the size of old SM.
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#823
Prot

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Nice work. I like those bases too.

 

Look at those old chaps. It was a simpler time. No one had horns yet, or a wandering third eye. It was hopes and dreams. lol

 

I look at those HH sculpts and to me it cements what they did with the new line. The new models really do fit the story surrounding the novel Black Legion. I do appreciate the look you've achieved though. They're great models too. 

 

Here's my traditional guys with some bits from the Oblits. 

havoc-chaincannons-1.jpg?w=860


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#824
Syrakul

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Thanks! Bases were custom built and resin cast back when i had free time to mix noxious chemicals. Looking for 3rd party bases that look close enough for when i run out of these.

The reavers/custom SoH really have that pre-chaos look where you can see where the mutated armor progressed from. Best part of 30k IMO is that foreshadow casting on everything. Between this or the last gen. CSM I chose this.

Good job putting together a full chaincannon squad! That is some really nice blending on the black you have there. The purple cables come off as clown hair on that lead model though, i would say pop a csm helmet on him, seems less need for all that techno stuff with his standard equipment. Could just be the angle.

Anyone feel the equipment choices in the new CSM is some level of trolling or challenge to CSM players? The faction most famous for conversions is forced out of the gate into converting all our best gear once again.

Edited by Syrakul, 28 May 2019 - 02:18 PM.


#825
MegaVolt87

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Look at it this way, converting our best gear is gatekeeping the band wagoners out. Only the dedicated will persist with actually modeling and painting the good units properly. The net list people can move on and stay out with their hack job armies that disrespect the faction and opponent, just to be on the bleeding edge of the meta at a point in time. Look at Prot's havocs, the guy loves chaos, he put in the effort for the power. 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Luna Wolves Legion, Lunar Wolves Legion, Sons of Horus Legion, Black Legion, XVI Legion, Legio XVI, Chaos Space Marines, Heretic Astartes

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