Brother Sefiel Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 GreetingsI do like a space monkey or six. I like them to work their magic on the wargear of my gigantic henchmen formation. I like that a lot.However, I'm not sure about something - do the effects that they grant the unit's weapons affect their own?Because I _really_ like the idea of 6 rending heavy flamers...Can anyone link any kind of definitive answer for me, please?Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 All the weapon and armour buffs apply to 'the unit'. The Jokaero is part of the unit, and his digital weapon fires as a standard ranged weapon. It's never specified that his weapon must fire using the unmodified stats, and that the buff does not apply to him, so I think it's definitive it affects him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 HiI like that interpretation, and I look forward to the complaints it will engender! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Hi  I like that interpretation, and I look forward to the complaints it will engender! I think it's far more ambiguous if he's allowed to change what his digital weapon is each turn or not:  'A Jokaero can have his digital weapons fire as one of the following weapons: lascannon, multi-melta or heavy flamer. Choose which when the weapon is fired.  All Jokaero in the same unit must choose the same weapon.'  The first sentence suggests you can choose each turn/ time it is fired, as it does not specify THE FIRST TIME the weapon is fired. I can't see any reason for the second restriction unless their intent was to stop you being confused which Jokaero model has what, and that would not be a problem if you could pick a new one each turn. It could be just to simplify things, and given you will be shooting the same enemy you probably want the same weapon anyway.  I absolutely hate the monkey models / concept but luckily forge world come to the rescue with a perfect proxy: You even get a tech priest to use with the new IA formation, and at £45.00 it compares reasonably to the price of 4 new monkeys and a tech priest.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isolia Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 As i read it seems straightforward indeed: choose the same weapon for each monkey in the same unit, before firing. Which means you can switch weapons each turn. Â At 35 pts for a 1wd model, even with 5++, I don't think that's too much of a conflict :) Â That's a great proxy idea by the way :) looks much more steampunky in harmony with the rest of the band ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epimetheus13 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Remember, the more Monkeys in the unit, the more likely the chance of getting no bonus at all. Â You add +1 on the Ingenuity roll for every monkey after the first. So 6 monkeys gives you +5 to the roll, meaning you will always get a result of 6...which allows you to roll again, but both of those rolls will also have a +5 bonus and further results of 6 do nothing. To maximize the chance of getting two rolls and minimizing chance of getting no bonus at all, 2-3 Monkeys are best. Â Of course, 6 heavy flamers are still wicked in their own right! They just can't have rending...but sit them in front of a promethium pipe that's bought a defensive barricade as cover, and burn baby burn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 Hello  I absolutely hate the monkey models / concept  Then we shall agree to differ!I only have one of the actual, current models. I don't have any of the originals - but I do have some things that will do. Captain Ook, one of the powder monkeys from the Empire gunners box, a cousin It-style chaos familiar, a Gronk from the old 2000AD range, plus the humonculus from the AdMech Skullz set and the C.A.T. machine from Space Hulk. Of course, 6 heavy flamers are still wicked in their own right! They just can't have rending...but sit them in front of a promethium pipe that's bought a defensive barricade as cover, and burn baby burn... Indeed, that's why I chose them. Is there some exception to the upgrade for flamers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epimetheus13 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Umm...Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your question! Flamers aren't an upgrade, and there's aren't any exceptions to the Monkeys' ingenuity roll. Â The promethium pipes just gives them Torrent, and 6 torrent heavy flamers have the Inquisitorial Seal of Approval. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 Why can't they have rending?Torrent would just be ridiculous. Humorously ridiculous, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Because Rending is one of the results on the Jokaro Ingenuity chart. If you have Six Jokaro, then you will have a +5 to your roll on the chart. Therefore, you cannot roll the result that grants Rending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I thought Gw might be a bit rules blind, but perhaps it's just a comment on 'how many monkeys' it takes to upgrade a gun. BTW am I the only one who reads 'inconceivable' like the character from the princess bride? Â Perhaps I was a little harsh on the apes, but all I can think of is an inqusitor's judgment being interupted by bannana peel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Hey guys Because Rending is one of the results on the Jokaro Ingenuity chart. If you have Six Jokaro, then you will have a +5 to your roll on the chart. Therefore, you cannot roll the result that grants Rending.  Remember, the more Monkeys in the unit, the more likely the chance of getting no bonus at all.You add +1 on the Ingenuity roll for every monkey after the first. So 6 monkeys gives you +5 to the roll, meaning you will always get a result of 6...which allows you to roll again, but both of those rolls will also have a +5 bonus and further results of 6 do nothing. To maximize the chance of getting two rolls and minimizing chance of getting no bonus at all, 2-3 Monkeys are best.Of course, 6 heavy flamers are still wicked in their own right! They just can't have rending...but sit them in front of a promethium pipe that's bought a defensive barricade as cover, and burn baby burn... Sorry, just re-read your posts.It turns out that the rules in C:IA are slightly different.6 monkeys gets the _choice_ of two results from the table.Hence auto-Rending.Monkeys ho!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epimetheus13 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 ...well, then! Â Just...wow! This opens up ALOT of opportunities with acolytes in the squad too...imagine a full squad of power (or even carapace) armoured acolytes with storm bolters with monkeys, PICKING a +1 armour save bonus and Rending storm bolters... Â My local game store sold out if C:IA. I need to grab that book and really spend some time going through it. How many more little upgrades are in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Brigade Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 ...well, then! Â Just...wow! This opens up ALOT of opportunities with acolytes in the squad too...imagine a full squad of power (or even carapace) armoured acolytes with storm bolters with monkeys, PICKING a +1 armour save bonus and Rending storm bolters... Â My local game store sold out if C:IA. I need to grab that book and really spend some time going through it. How many more little upgrades are in there? You can only take Monkeys in a squad as part of the new formation in IA. The Henchmen squad has been replaced with Acolytes and you can only take Acolytes and Mystics in that if you want to go for the 1 HQ 3 Elites option. Monkeys can also be taken as solo elites choices. Â The formation could be a real death star though, 12 acolytes with power armour and Stormbolter or hotshots, 1 priest, 10 crusaders 6 Daemonhosts 10 Arco-flagellants 10 death cult 1 tech priest and 6 Jokaero and an astropath, all forming one squad. (minimum for formation is 1 inquisitor and 3 acolytes) Â Then give everyone the rending shots and improved armour save through the Jokaero. It's debatable if invulnerable save would be better as a lot of the formation already has one. Â Power armour is a bit cheaper now as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Antaeus Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 If you're going to do a wall of doom with flamers, why not add 3 acolytes with standard flamers? At 30 points, for the cost of a single laser monkey, you can add 3 more torrent templates AND make it even more unpleasant when people (genestealer cults) charge the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016  The formation could be a real death star though, 12 acolytes with power armour and Stormbolter or hotshots, 1 priest, 10 crusaders 6 Daemonhosts 10 Arco-flagellants 10 death cult 1 tech priest and 6 Jokaero and an astropath, all forming one squad. (minimum for formation is 1 inquisitor and 3 acolytes)  Then give everyone the rending shots and improved armour save through the Jokaero. It's debatable if invulnerable save would be better as a lot of the formation already has one.  Power armour is a bit cheaper now as well.  Hi  I did this this evening - I only have two crusaders, 5 DCAs and three arco-flagellants, and I haven't painted enough sisters as acolytes yet, so used some stormtrooper-types to fill the gaps.  Unfortunately the mission was the Relic, and was on diagonals, so was difficult to move my unwieldy force to where it needed to be - sometimes deathstars can be disadvantageous!  Didn't roll Invisibility for uber-cheese, but I had Cypher with a single inquisitor from C:I to provide Shrouded, and Coteaz was on hand, but the pesky opposition didn't Deep Strike anything close to him. Lased a Vindicaire assassin out of his hiding place on turn one. Go space monkeys!  Then, through poor rolls, poor positioning, and unfortunate mission type, ended up losing much of the force to shooting. Some of my rolls were atrocious!  However, after muchos dakka (turn 4) the 2+/3++/5+++ Blood Angels captain charged in with his command squad - the five remaining monkeys were not impressed, and he was duly toasted.  Will definitely work better in other missions, and the book-keeping of running the force (it was 1500 points and I had a total of five psychic units) was a bit irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasEll Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 That change is actually a pretty serious buff then. Take six monkeys and then pile in a bunch of acolytes with storm bolters and special weapons, Rending and +12" Range will make this a pretty scary shooty squad.   Shame you can't stick them in the old Inquisition chimera with the 5 firepoints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 22, 2016 Author Share Posted December 22, 2016 Hi That change is actually a pretty serious buff then. Take six monkeys and then pile in a bunch of acolytes with storm bolters and special weapons, Rending and +12" Range will make this a pretty scary shooty squad.   Shame you can't stick them in the old Inquisition chimera with the 5 firepoints You do need an inquisitor to go with them, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasEll Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Hi  That change is actually a pretty serious buff then. Take six monkeys and then pile in a bunch of acolytes with storm bolters and special weapons, Rending and +12" Range will make this a pretty scary shooty squad.   Shame you can't stick them in the old Inquisition chimera with the 5 firepoints You do need an inquisitor to go with them, though.  Well the Inquisitor doesn't need to go in the unit.  I think a pretty strong combo for the Henchman formation could be a Jokaero Heavy Weapons Squad and then an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon, and then stick him into the Squad of GK termies with an extra psycannon.     EDIT: Question someone just raised on a facebook group, does the +12" range modification affect flamers (turning them into torrents)?  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016  Well the Inquisitor doesn't need to go in the unit.  I think a pretty strong combo for the Henchman formation could be a Jokaero Heavy Weapons Squad and then an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA with a Psycannon, and then stick him into the Squad of GK termies with an extra psycannon.  EDIT: Question someone just raised on a facebook group, does the +12" range modification affect flamers (turning them into torrents)? The inquisitor does need to go in the unit, it's a formation that acts as a single squad (so his gear is upgraded too, of course).  Nope. Non-template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I wouldn't think it does. Torrent is a special rule that would need to be specifically added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epimetheus13 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The Inquisitor does not need to deploy with the Henchmen formation - the only restriction is that units with the footnote '1' must deploy with the formation's Acolytes. The Inquisitor doesn't have that footnote, nor do any of the Chambers Militant. Â So Inquisitor can join with the Chamber Militant squad, or any other unit in the army. He can't however embark on the transport of the Chambers Militant, because its of a different faction. Â He CAN ride separately in one of the dedicated transports purchased by the Acolyte blob unit in this formation, because even though the transport's Dataslate is of a different faction, the 40K Rulebook states that any dedicated transport counts as the same faction as the unit that purchased it. The unit is an Inquisitorial Acolyte unit, so all dedicated transports bought by that unit become Inquisition faction, so the Inquisitor can ride in any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hi The Inquisitor does not need to deploy with the Henchmen formation - the only restriction is that units with the footnote '1' must deploy with the formation's Acolytes. The Inquisitor doesn't have that footnote, nor do any of the Chambers Militant.So Inquisitor can join with the Chamber Militant squad, or any other unit in the army. He can't however embark on the transport of the Chambers Militant, because its of a different faction.He CAN ride separately in one of the dedicated transports purchased by the Acolyte blob unit in this formation, because even though the transport's Dataslate is of a different faction, the 40K Rulebook states that any dedicated transport counts as the same faction as the unit that purchased it. The unit is an Inquisitorial Acolyte unit, so all dedicated transports bought by that unit become Inquisition faction, so the Inquisitor can ride in any of them. Oh, now that's interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teetengee Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The best part about an inquistorial deathstar is that it laughs at grav, more or less. (the dominant save is not going to be anywhere close to the save any suited up acolytes are taking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hello againI've now managed to pare it down to 1k Codex: Just as Planned. One unit plus characters. Such lunacy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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