Master Ciaphas Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I have listened to the two first audio dramas, and then realized that Bl was releasing them in book form at some later point, so beyond that, I have not kept up with the Garro storyline...also, since books are only released in the original mass market paperback months and months after the hardback-trade paperback editions, I am some 6-7 novels/anthologies/fix-ups behind the storyline. Annoying that, really, as I would like to get my HH fix done. James Swallow´s works usually go down well with me, so I will be buying the Garro novel/anthology/fix-up when it comes out in mass market paperback...some, what, 16 months from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just getting round to starting this. Am I correct in thinking that most people who were critical of this had previously listened to the audios? Yes and partly half of the critic is based on the point - that's it's an old stories without any 'solid' new stuff - except for some dreamish ligament between them to sale as a 'novel' - which is anthology of shorts/audios/novellas. At least in case of 'Primarchs' series - it has really 'new' stories for their 'novella sized' stories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganders Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm really enjoying this book. I generally cant stand audios so this is brand new for me (although I knew the general activities that Garro has been up to). I always think that Swallow isn't one of my preferred writers as I tend to think of his dreadful 40K Blood Angels books. But then I realise he also did the excellent Flight of the Eisenstien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 What do you like about it? Most of the criticism I'd heard was "it's all 'faith' this and faith that". I consider FotE to be ok, good in parts, for what that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm really enjoying this book. I generally cant stand audios so this is brand new for me (although I knew the general activities that Garro has been up to). I always think that Swallow isn't one of my preferred writers as I tend to think of his dreadful 40K Blood Angels books. But then I realise he also did the excellent Flight of the Eisenstien. FotE was really good. Garro stuff on the other hand is so boring... What do you like about it? Most of the criticism I'd heard was "it's all 'faith' this and faith that". I consider FotE to be ok, good in parts, for what that's worth. That' exactly what 'Garro' is "it's all 'faith' this and faith that", plus imperium society plotholes being patched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganders Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @bluntblade, I'm not sure why I'm enjoying it so much. I think maybe its that its not just bolter porn and theres a lot of well written background stuff. All I know it I'm finding it hard to put down at night whereas the last book I read was Cybernetica which I could barely read a couple pages before I was falling asleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @bluntblade, I'm not sure why I'm enjoying it so much. I think maybe its that its not just bolter porn and theres a lot of well written background stuff. I think this is a good point, and one I might've glossed over in my own assessment of the book. There's plenty of action, but it is nice to have something more focused on characters and their journey. There is plenty of talk about faith, but I never felt like I was being beaten over the head with it, just that it's an important part of Garro's character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_F_D Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm only 150 pages in and I am enjoying it for similar reasons to Ganders. I like the majority of Swallow's HH work although Gunsight had me scratching my head at times trying to keep up but I think that may have been the intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 @bluntblade, I'm not sure why I'm enjoying it so much. I think maybe its that its not just bolter porn and theres a lot of well written background stuff. All I know it I'm finding it hard to put down at night whereas the last book I read was Cybernetica which I could barely read a couple pages before I was falling asleep. "I think maybe its that its not just bolter porn and theres a lot of well written background stuff." - well written background stuff? well - it is horribly written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tymell Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm only 150 pages in and I am enjoying it for similar reasons to Ganders. I like the majority of Swallow's HH work although Gunsight had me scratching my head at times trying to keep up but I think that may have been the intention. If it's any consolation, I totally got that too for a good chunk of the story, and I also think that was the idea, showing the effects of the toxins and the influence of Chaos. I ended up loving Gunsight, it really immersed me in the main character and his transformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm only 150 pages in and I am enjoying it for similar reasons to Ganders. I like the majority of Swallow's HH work although Gunsight had me scratching my head at times trying to keep up but I think that may have been the intention. If it's any consolation, I totally got that too for a good chunk of the story, and I also think that was the idea, showing the effects of the toxins and the influence of Chaos. I ended up loving Gunsight, it really immersed me in the main character and his transformation. Chaos stimmed assassin - right. Sent versus Saint - by Horus who said himself that he will kill Killer and Emperor personally? Sure - that shows us a big abyss in authors communication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Or maybe Horus is just not foolish enough to throw away a useful tool that will wreak havoc regardless of mission success? He can let the assassin loose to weaken resolve and take a stabbing at vital points in the defense, even if he never believed that it'd ever reach the Emperor. We are not privy to Horus's thought processes. We know that he's a showman, and skillfully maneuvers his pawns into position. That's apparent as far back as Horus Rising where he subtly manipulated Loken into doing exactly what he wanted without ever giving him instructions. What better way to convince an assassin to turn to his side than to offer him a lucrative target and acting almighty? I mean, the desire of the assassin was literally to have clarity again, a purpose. I don't even remember Gunsight putting Kell onto the Emperor in the first place, and Horus wanting to exterminate Keeler makes perfect sense, because Keeler was there. She even took photos of pre-Chaos Horus. Power-up'd Horus is a different beast, and he's probably very unhappy with a potential Saint preaching about Horus being just a mortal man on steroids. I wasn't much of a fan of Gunsight myself, but I can't help but think that your assessment is rather uncharitable and, at least in part, missing a few of the subtler beats of the story and the context in which it was told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Or maybe Horus is just not foolish enough to throw away a useful tool that will wreak havoc regardless of mission success? He can let the assassin loose to weaken resolve and take a stabbing at vital points in the defense, even if he never believed that it'd ever reach the Emperor. We are not privy to Horus's thought processes. We know that he's a showman, and skillfully maneuvers his pawns into position. That's apparent as far back as Horus Rising where he subtly manipulated Loken into doing exactly what he wanted without ever giving him instructions. What better way to convince an assassin to turn to his side than to offer him a lucrative target and acting almighty? I mean, the desire of the assassin was literally to have clarity again, a purpose. I don't even remember Gunsight putting Kell onto the Emperor in the first place, and Horus wanting to exterminate Keeler makes perfect sense, because Keeler was there. She even took photos of pre-Chaos Horus. Power-up'd Horus is a different beast, and he's probably very unhappy with a potential Saint preaching about Horus being just a mortal man on steroids. I wasn't much of a fan of Gunsight myself, but I can't help but think that your assessment is rather uncharitable and, at least in part, missing a few of the subtler beats of the story and the context in which it was told. It's strange that he lost that Clarity. As an assassin he has a mission - that's the biggest clarity of purpose you will ever have! Ok you wasn't successful on the first attempt - it's Imperial ass. clades - they retreat, hide, regroup and try again. Instead he went whimpering like a small kid with the crisis of perturbity and faith... Garro story in the ark of faith that started with 'Shield of Lies' amd continued in Ashes of Fealty is a really blank and childish one. In general it shows how a SM relive crisis of faith and belief. And it's too much a crisis. Garro story became boring a long time ago and it's simply continues cause it was made so by Laurie for additional profit. I do hope that at last at the Siege of Terra his misery would end with the bolt to the head (sadly that wouldn't happen to Vulkan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_F_D Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 So I've only made it a hundred pages further in for one reason or another. I'm at the section that would have been released as Shield of Lies, and I am really enjoying this. I note people's criticisms but it doesn't feel that disjointed to me. Maybe the inclusion of section breaks, 6 months later etc etc could alleviate this? However, my question here is; at what point does Garro become a firm believer in the God-Emperor? Is it in Flight of the Einstein? It's been several years since I've read it for my memory is hazy on the finer details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 FotE really manifests the idea within him, and it grows further from then on. Blame Keeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 So I've only made it a hundred pages further in for one reason or another. I'm at the section that would have been released as Shield of Lies, and I am really enjoying this. I note people's criticisms but it doesn't feel that disjointed to me. Maybe the inclusion of section breaks, 6 months later etc etc could alleviate this? However, my question here is; at what point does Garro become a firm believer in the God-Emperor? Is it in Flight of the Einstein? It's been several years since I've read it for my memory is hazy on the finer details. Before Vow of Faith he is already a zealot. That road took that turn between FotE and Shield of Lies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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