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Playing SW without TWC or Wulfen - viability?


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#51
krrenalor

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It is not possible to play against a COMPETITIVE list without TWC and Wulfen, I am a tournament player and will meet 4 Wraightknight lists with Jet Bikes and you will get tabled.

 

Now if someone has some secret SW list without TWC and Wulfen that can win post it. I had Ork players insist the codex can win, they have one win at a major tournament in 2 years! Then I pulled the Eldar list of top 5 finishes and it was two pages, ONE WIN FOR ORKS. Not competitive at all is a SW wolf list without TWC and Wulfen, you need a two turn close assault MAX to beat Tau and Eldar. You can literally be on them turn 1 with some builds, TURN ONE!

 

Now of course you can build a fun list, that's what I field against Orks. But Eldar and Tau will bring sick firepower or psychic support and table you in three turns.

 

The Helm of Durfast on a Rune Priest with a bunch of back up Rune Priests on bikes might work attached to a Wolf guard bike unit, I haven't given it a shot and neither has anyone else at a tournament and won that I know of.


Edited by krrenalor, 20 March 2017 - 07:11 PM.

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#52
TheWolfLord

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It is not possible to play against a COMPETITIVE list without TWC and Wulfen, I am a tournament player and will meet 4 Wraightknight lists with Jet Bikes and you will get tabled.
 
Now if someone has some secret SW list without TWC and Wulfen that can win post it. I had Ork players insist the codex can win, they have one win at a major tournament in 2 years! Then I pulled the Eldar list of top 5 finishes and it was two pages, ONE WIN FOR ORKS. Not competitive at all is a SW wolf list without TWC and Wulfen, you need a two turn close assault MAX to beat Tau and Eldar. You can literally be on them turn 1 with some builds, TURN ONE!
 
Now of course you can build a fun list, that's what I field against Orks. But Eldar and Tau will bring sick firepower or psychic support and table you in three turns.
 
The Helm of Durfast on a Rune Priest with a bunch of back up Rune Priests on bikes might work attached to a Wolf guard bike unit, I haven't given it a shot and neither has anyone else at a tournament and won that I know of.


Do you know anyone who has won a tournament with a SW list in the last 2 years regardless of build?

#53
Nrthstar

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Here you go Thewolflord http://bloodofkitten...ist-compendium/ Blood of Kittens keeps it updated.  The win GT win Space Wolf list in 7th edition is a Wolf star.  Disheartening, that the best of the best in the nation can't.  Maverk and I have agreed on a lot over the years, but land raiders and our bikes are definitely not winning us tournaments.  Last time I ran a land raider, I keep in 6th out of 24 in a tourney.  (Arjac and shield bros, small Thunderwolf squad (not a star/bs) and dreadnoughts)

 

I have been looking for new lists.  As I said on page one, I'm trying to work out an all dreadnought army, I just need more dreads.  But Iron hands and blood angels seem to do it better.  I ran Wyrdstorm in a small 750 point tourney, and it didn't go too well, except ironically against a barebones thunderwolf list.  750 is too small on points to support twc, so the poor fella didn't stand a chance.


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QUOTE (hendrik @ Aug 16 2011, 05:43 PM)
so not only do you dare to call an elder wolf a whelp, but now your also reglecting the sacred rule of dibs and shotgun??!!! :blink:

#54
krrenalor

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I used the Blood of Kittens list also, look at Orks and then Eldar, it is really disheartening.



#55
Cessna

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I've never played in a tournament, and never will.

 

I like to play a good game and give my opponent a challenge, but to me the game is an excuse to stand around a table with friends while drinking beer and swapping stories.

 

I don't like the aesthetics of TWC or Wulfen. I far prefer regular units like Grey Hunters, or, better yet, Champions of Fenris.

 

I like to think I am not the only person who prefers this style of play.


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#56
TheWolfLord

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I've never played in a tournament, and never will.
 
I like to play a good game and give my opponent a challenge, but to me the game is an excuse to stand around a table with friends while drinking beer and swapping stories.
 
I don't like the aesthetics of TWC or Wulfen. I far prefer regular units like Grey Hunters, or, better yet, Champions of Fenris.
 
I like to think I am not the only person who prefers this style of play.


Why do you think tournaments aren't how you describe? While my regional tournaments aren't massive examples we all get to know each other and have a good laugh while challenging ourselves against the best from other codices.

The last 2 tournaments I attended I ran lists without TWC and in a doubles tournament only my partner had Wulfen. I always finish high but do get outclassed by the top lists.

I sit around, drink beer, have a laugh with my opponents and get some new stories to tell future opponents.

When I visit my club on Saturday I'll just pick a fairly eclectic list of what I fancy running that day and I won't be considering unit power but fun. When I play in tournaments I like a different challenge but I still have fun.

There are people who take tournaments way too seriously and spoil it for others but it's not as common as some people make out

#57
TheDuck

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My belief, with the limited experience that I have, is that while SWs can technically be viable against some, if not most lists without TWCs and Wulfen, it is a definite fact that they are our most useful units as of now. For example, I've used Arjac and his Shield Bros against my friend who plays Tzeentch daemons, and to call it total annihilation would be putting it mildly. We had reinforcement limits, so he was only able to double his army, but he had literally nothing that could stand up to the Shield Bros. The moment his stuff fell out of the sky it was stone dead. So, while Wulfen and TWC are certainly our most widely effective units, that isn't to say that certain other types of SW builds aren't non viable against some other armies.

#58
jbickb

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I think in some ways Thunder cav and wulfen are our grav weapons. Space marine players bring so much grav because that is their only answer to the crazy top level stuff of other armies. Space marines have plenty of other strategies that would be fine against most mid tier armies but against the top grav spam is their best answer. For us that thing is wulfen and Thunder cave. We can use most balanced builds successfully a giant Non top tier builds, but against top tier insanity the only thing that comes close is Thunder cave and wulfen.

Here's hoping 8th edition cleans this up a bit.
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#59
Nrthstar

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I've never played in a tournament, and never will.
 
I like to play a good game and give my opponent a challenge, but to me the game is an excuse to stand around a table with friends while drinking beer and swapping stories.
 
I don't like the aesthetics of TWC or Wulfen. I far prefer regular units like Grey Hunters, or, better yet, Champions of Fenris.
 
I like to think I am not the only person who prefers this style of play.


Why do you think tournaments aren't how you describe? While my regional tournaments aren't massive examples we all get to know each other and have a good laugh while challenging ourselves against the best from other codices.

The last 2 tournaments I attended I ran lists without TWC and in a doubles tournament only my partner had Wulfen. I always finish high but do get outclassed by the top lists.

I sit around, drink beer, have a laugh with my opponents and get some new stories to tell future opponents.

When I visit my club on Saturday I'll just pick a fairly eclectic list of what I fancy running that day and I won't be considering unit power but fun. When I play in tournaments I like a different challenge but I still have fun.

There are people who take tournaments way too seriously and spoil it for others but it's not as common as some people make out

 

 

 

This.  WolfLord is dead on.  Cessna, I started out with the exact same mentality as you though, because I had stopped by to watch some tournaments before, and it just seemed like a cluster fudge of overly tense people and I didn't have the models nor the confidence in my tactics to even want to try (this was the Long Fang/Razor Spam days, where we didn't assault, we just fired 48" death all over the board).  Over the years, I built up 10k points of space wolves, I tried other armies, but the real key to want to get out and try my hand at tourney's was the desire to push myself, and because I wanted to see a much wider variety of armies and lists.

 

I had played against my friends over, and over again.  Sure sometimes we tried a new list, but I wanted more.  I wanted to see every Xenos, every Chaos list.  I figured I'd try it out and see what happened.  I was in for a treat, one of my first tourney's was a 24 person store tourney.  People from all over came out with all sorts of craziness (sadly this store only gets 8-12 now, but they are making effort to get back up to full strength).  I played an Arjac Shieldbrothers death star, supported by a small squad of Twolves, and dreadnoughts, and a small squad of blood claws in our flyer.  I came in 6th out of 24th, but far more important, I made a ton of friends within a 2 hour radius.  I'll add, I'm a outgoing introvert, making friends isn't easy for me, unless we are united by a game, sport, music, etc.

 

I had a blast at almost every tourney after that, every time picking up new friends.  I met my now go to team tourney partner, we've won 2 out of 3 of the teams tourney's we've played.  Now I have seen some absolutely crazy BS on the table.  But I got what I wanted out of it, War in whole new ways.  I've only had two games in 3 years of tourneys where I just looked my opponent in the eye, moved my stuff to the middle of the board, and told them to have at it.  It happens, and it was more because I brought a list with a specific weakness that they knew how to beat, than they brought something broken.  But every time it was a lesson, and I'm thankful.  My lists almost always include a wyrdstorm now, just because you have twolves on the table, doesn't mean you leave your psycher phase empty.  

 

I haven't tried Iron Wolves out yet, with 8th looming, I'll wait and see what happens.  I don't want to invest in a bunch of rhino's yet (I only have three).  Next month I am putting a totally different deathstar down, I found it an old thread somewhere on here.  There are thunderwolves, but only three.  No Wulfen.  It'll feature Heralds of the greatwolf on bikes/Twolf, a wolf lord on Twolf, an additional IP on Twolf, and Celestine/gemini.  It's going to be the most broken thing I've ever played, and it doesn't rely on the Twolves, their just there as the best upgrade for their slots.  On top of that, I'll have 3 in a wyrdstorm joining a squad of GH and two with Blood claws.  I'll play test it this upcoming week I hope.


I've never played in a tournament, and never will.

 

I like to play a good game and give my opponent a challenge, but to me the game is an excuse to stand around a table with friends while drinking beer and swapping stories.

 

I don't like the aesthetics of TWC or Wulfen. I far prefer regular units like Grey Hunters, or, better yet, Champions of Fenris.

 

I like to think I am not the only person who prefers this style of play.

Oh and to add, go back to the past two pages, you're not unique in your preference at all, it's full of people playing Iron wolves, which is tanks and power armor.


gallery_29004_6198_41491.jpg


QUOTE (hendrik @ Aug 16 2011, 05:43 PM)
so not only do you dare to call an elder wolf a whelp, but now your also reglecting the sacred rule of dibs and shotgun??!!! :blink:

#60
TheWolfLord

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Heralds of the Great Wolf has a huge amount of potential especially as a basis of a Company of the Great Wolf Deathstar.

-1bs is huge but the Look Out, Sir! FAQ hurt it as you now must continue to put wounds on the same model until it's dead.

#61
Wispy

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 you now must continue to put wounds on the same model until it's dead.

 

MENDOZA! 



#62
Cessna

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There are people who take tournaments way too seriously and spoil it for others but it's not as common as some people make out

 

 

That's good to hear.

 

This also applies to NrthStar's excellent post.

 

Maybe I will give it a shot at some point. I'll admit I've been turned off by what I've seen in the past - as has been said, people taking it WAY too seriously - but maybe I should give it another look.


Edited by Cessna, 25 March 2017 - 11:57 PM.





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