Sete Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The warp is not the chaos gods. They inhabit it and are part of it, but there is a lot more to it. Have you read the Path of Heaven? The way the WS escape? There are older things than the chaos gods in the depths of the warp. The Dreamer bit shows that she goes to a realm without emotion, which is a clear contrast of what feeds the warp gods. So no. SoB faith might be fueled by warp but it's not the chaos gods warp. Which takes me to the part that the faith in the Emperor is creating a realm in the warp to where he possibly could ascend to. And like Gork and Mork and the now defunct Eldar gods, he can exist in the warp. So when Abbadon kills the Emperor he will be finnaly be free of his mortal shackles. Things never improve in this setting, but it can go wrong to other factions other than the Imperium. So Abbadon and the chaos gods can also have a bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The Chaos Gods are made by/of what the majority of the usable Warp is. This is the only energy that is usable by the remaining species of the Galaxy. Unless you have a way to show otherwise its a pretty clear line. Emperor is made of Souls, Souls that had been getting eaten by Warp Entities. Emperor is a psyker, and uses the Warp (like every other existing Psyker) 'Faith' power is dependant upon either the God-Emperor OR just the plain old Warp, a type of group based psyker power. Therefore, Faith is based on Warp Power, ironically to the Imperium (not us, we should know this) the same power as Chaos/Orks/Eldar use. They escape via a Webway Path. Now this Dreamer bit is new and interesting, I agree. I can easily see this as being the God-Emperor's (not 30K Emperor here, this is 10000 years of Worship, Suffering, Sacrifice, and soul fuel from the Sanction leading to a new being) realm. A realm in the Warp, as a new Warp God just as the other Warp Powers exist. I think we both agree here, except perhaps on the Warp having a 'safe place' being tapped into. I dont think it works that way, as the Webway was lost to humanity for most purposes. This is just potentially, a step towards the God-Emperor as Star Child fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 And bitter and broken gods of other races dwell in the depths. So when a ship travels trough the warp he travels trough Khorne or Nurgle? No he travels on the environment where those ententies live. Like Gork and Mork. When Magnus traveled to the warp he makes contact with a huge sentient "shadow" or mass. The warp is an ocean and predators live there. At least that's how I see the warp. I don't think they escape trough the Webway. Need to re read that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Actually if one where so silly as to fly/sail directly at the largest warp entity/storm they saw within the warp? Yes, you could 'sail' through Nurgle or Khorne... As to the escape... It was a copy of the Golden throne, the purpose of which is to open/close the gate to the Terra Webway path. They opened a portal to the webway, 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Is this about LotD and Ferrus? It looks like something else now. Although very interesting, could be discussed better in another forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I was under the impression that they were travelling trough the "depths" of the warp. Yes, but Khorne, Nurgle etc, don't cover all the warp. They are a part of it. If humanity ceases they die, but the warp remains. So it's feasible that that place without emotion is really the agglomeration of power that ultimately the faith of the Imperials forms in the warp. It kinda is Bannon. If the LotD are really spectres of vengeance sent by the Emperor, Ferrus could be the one leading them. Not Ferrus himself, but his reflection in the warp? His soul given physical shape? It's cannon now that the Emperor has a "realm" in the warp where Celestine is collected when she dies, and sent into battle. But unlike the LotD that are basically Emperor powered Daemons, she has a physical body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The nature of the Warp and Chaos are superfluous to the discussion - the crux of the discussion is the potential completion of the retcon from the Legion of the Damned being the last survivors of the Fire Hawks to being the spectral embodiment of the Emperor's will in the form of the Adeptus Astartes, a drastic change that was first presented to the public in concrete form (rather than in-universe hyperbole) in Codex: Legion of the Damned. Granted, some hobbyists might dislike the notion because of their views on the Warp and/or the Legion of the Damned, but we don't need to focus on the sideshow that is the Warp.The old lore about the Legion of the Damned being the survivors of the Fire Hawks wasn't ambiguous. It was fairly clearly explained based on evidence left by the Legion of the Damned. The timelines presented through 3rd edition, though often misread, supported the Fire Hawks origin.The part of me that liked that old lore and even developed both Epic Armageddon and Battlefleet Gothic rules for the Legion of the Damned, especially the BFG rules, has issues with such a drastic change to the lore.However, I'm slowly warming to the idea that the Legion of the Damned might be something other than, or perhaps more than, the Fire Hawks. If we look at the slain from Isstvan as the first of the Legion of the Damned, however, we really need to see appropriately armoured miniatures, whether from Games Workshop/Citadel or from Forge World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 The Fire Hawks can still be part of the LotD. Lost in the Warp, they fiercely fought against the atrocities and horrors of the Warp, carrying the unbending belief in the Emperor. As more and more fell beneath the demonically onslaught and with each fallen dying more than a heroes death and being torn to shreds, their souls were saved by a unknown entity which itself was anathema to the demons. Thus, the sacrifices of the Fire Hawks were what allowed them to walk in the entities light, carrying the wrath of the Emperor in their hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliesin Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 So, for those who have the digital Fallof Cadia book or have heard about it, are we shown who the giant warrior in baroque armour is? Does Fall of Cadia make any reference to Ferrus Manus? Or is this all inspired from the whispers Atia spoke of that she heard? I understand there is a suggestion in Master of Mankind but in the 40k universe, anything about this in the new fluff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I like the idea, I'd love to have a ghost marine army lead by Ferrus, it's a shame it's just a line from a book though and there's no rumours for it actually happening. I have some legion of the damned but not painted them, I also have Veteran Sergeant Centurius to it would be nice to put them to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I like the idea, I'd love to have a ghost marine army lead by Ferrus, it's a shame it's just a line from a book though and there's no rumours for it actually happening. I have some legion of the damned but not painted them, I also have Veteran Sergeant Centurius to it would be nice to put them to use. It's actually in more than one book. Remember the Ultramarines novels? The Chapter's Due? Back than we all thought the bit about the LotD there was kind of ... off. I mean, they were lead by a spectre of Ventanus .... That said - again, it's just something that got implied in the latest fluff, and something that would make sense for me, if I would start to design a plastic army for the Legion of the Damned. At the end, a LotD Ferrus would be 10000 times more impressive than any of the other options (clone, robot, dreadnought, chaos-zombie, ....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Also - I think the last codex for LotD already made the "firehawks" fluff questionable, including major battles that date back to a time before the badab war afaik ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 While it is more than likely a "cool thing that they can build on if they wanted" plot hook - the possibilities are awesome. Now, we only see mention of this Ferrus in the Webway/ Warp etc in his Father's presence - so just like a Daemon Price he more than likely needs incredible power to manifest etc. One theory... Each of the Primarchs contained a part of the Emperor's essence... So when Ferrus dies, this part of him goes back to the big E and he uses it to create an avatar to fight for him in the webway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 It was always my opinion that Primarchs could never truly die since they are part warp merged with real matter, this seemed even more likely when you consider that when Ferrus dies you literally see the warp part spill out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I was always my opinion that Primarchs could never true die since they are part warp merged with real matter, this seemed even more like when you consider that when Ferrus dies you literally see the warp part spill out. It's even cooler if you consider that Ferrus' death also gave birth to a certain Keeper of Secrets^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I've heard of it but never fully read it, was in wrath of iron or something? Either way it would be nice if GW actually put an army on the table and allowed you to have a legion of the damned army with Ferrus at it's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Ferrus Manus Once the Primarch of iron and machines Now, the Primarch of Ethereals and souls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Flesh is weak. So no flesh now ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptain24 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I hadn't heard that until now. I like the sound of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Also, from Fall of Cadia, regarding the Legion of the Damned: "Not all forces within the Immaterium bend their knee to the dark designs of Chaos" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I love that concept! Makes you wonder what other sub-factions could be biding their time in the Warp . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 GreetingsI'll stick with the Fire Hawks, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I don't see the issue here. The new implications of LotD being older than Fire Hawks doesn't negate the fact that the FHs also became legionaires. In fact, I'm excited to see Ferrus has become a vengeful ghost. Maybe he'll get rid of that failure of an idea that was the sapphire prince :yuck: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 HiI prefer the Fire Hawks version because their deaths and transformations were specifically linked to being in the warp.I suppose you might be able to say that this version is a way that the Imperium could actually win - it just brings back the ghosts of all its dead space marines (perhaps when the Emperor gets reborn after physical death) and overwhelms their enemies with spectral forces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 I suppose you might be able to say that this version is a way that the Imperium could actually win - it just brings back the ghosts of all its dead space marines (perhaps when the Emperor gets reborn after physical death) and overwhelms their enemies with spectral forces... Oh no, please no "Return of the King" deus ex mechanicus style victory using an army of ghosts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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