Under what circumstances the Angel returns?

[LutherMax]

I don't think it's the intention that the Sanguinor is in some way Sanguinius reincarnated, if only for the reason that the Sanguinor is marine-sized. I know that doesn't matter from an existential point of view, but it would be a weird choice aesthetically.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I think we are going to see them all return regardless... (I am happy about it personally)

 

I just hope if he comes back its a good story.

 

Maybe his presence will have stabilising effect on the Black Rage?

[LutherMax]

I do think the Sanguinor's mysterious statement, "There is hope" when speaking to Dante at the end of the Shield of Baal narrative may have been an allusion to his return, but he could have been referring to something else...

[Panzer]

I don't think it's the intention that the Sanguinor is in some way Sanguinius reincarnated, if only for the reason that the Sanguinor is marine-sized. I know that doesn't matter from an existential point of view, but it would be a weird choice aesthetically.

Well for one it's an old model and they are completely free to make it a lot bigger if they want to. Just look at the new and old Lord of Change for example. And the other...yeah I don't think he is Sanguinius reincarnated....yet! If it happens that way it's totally possible that the Sanguinor only possesses part of Sanguinius powers so far and once the reincarnation is completed his true form reveals itself.

 

But seriously, we could argue and theorize for days and wouldn't come to a proper conclusion. So many things are possible in 40k depending on how well it's written. Especially in this time where GW is about to change a bunch of things.

[Tyriks]

I agree it wouldn't cheapen his sacrifice because he wasn't likely knowledgeable about any sort of return.

 

But to me it does sort of cheapen the overall story. Or any story really, if you kill off a key player, have the nads to stick with that idea.

I think it would, in this circumstance, take way more guts to bring him back, since he has been dead from the beginning and it was always intended to be permanent.  That's way different than when a comic book kills a character knowing they'll be back in a year or so.  Also whether he knew or not that he'd come back, he still had to die in agony, which means it was still a huge sacrifice.  

[Arkangilos]

Are we sure it was always permanent, though? While I don't consider Deus Encarmine to be canon, it was at least mentioned there that there were prophecies for his return.

[Tyriks]

That book was also published like 20 years after the setting was created, so it clearly wouldn't reflect the original intention if that's the first instance of it.  

[Arkangilos]

20 years after the setting, sure. Not 20 years after the death of Sanguinius was fleshed out.

 

My point is that we don't know if it was originally a plan or not.

[Tyriks]

20 years after the setting, sure. Not 20 years after the death of Sanguinius was fleshed out.

When was that?  I didn't start playing until well afterwards.  I wish I could find an extensive real world history of the development of 40k as a setting...

[Arkangilos]

... 20 years ago :(

[Tyriks]

Related note, when did the BA even get created?  Were they always there but not fleshed out?  Or were there even separate legions/chapters at first?  

[Arkangilos]

They were in first edition, but not fleshed out other than being one of the first legions.

Back then the flesh tearers and blood drinkers were first founding, too

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Related note, when did the BA even get created?  Were they always there but not fleshed out?  Or were there even separate legions/chapters at first?  

 

The original (1st Edition) Rogue Trader book had Blood Angels, also Flesh Eaters (my first chapter!!), Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkers. It also talks about how the Space Marine chapters consist of 1000 marines but it never goes into why that came about, as the Horus Heresy concept wasn't conceived until a year or two later. It also has the Emperor on a mechanical throne for life support but implies this is only because he has lived so long that his body couldn't maintain life on its own.

 

In the 2nd edition we got more flushed out background and a codex.

[sockwithaticket]

 

 an opportunity for a truly stunning model (just look at Celestine for what could potentially be done).

 

He'll be getting one for 30k anyway and thats enough.

[sockwithaticket]

The dead should stay dead.

X-men (and it's various off-shoots) is one of my favourite collection of comic book characters of all time, however, the convoluted or down right lame ways in which they routinely bring characters back from the dead routinely is a massive black mark against them.

I struggle to think of a way Sanguinius could be resurrected that wouldn't be: ' Hey how can we get Sanguinius back in the setting?' "Insert an unheard of plot Maguffin?" 'Done and done'.

Psychic entity/warp entity? What's wrong with leaving Sanguinius only presence in 40k as a legendary memory?

I'll conced, though, that I come at all this Primarchs in 40k malarky from a negative place. I'm of the opinion that their absence is part of the setting and that it's an element not in need change. You want Primarchs, then go back 10,000 years.

[Blindhamster]

Stuff changes. Lots of us are apparently curmudgeons and the thought of change makes us extra curmudgeonly.

 

I'm looking forward to sanguinius in 30k. I think we will see him long before a 40k version appears.

 

If a 40k one does appear, I've no idea how it'll happen, but there are in lore prophecies of his return and there are hints in novels and whatever that it could happen too (not least of which being the lone heartbeat that Corbulo heard). If it happens, I'll take it for what it is. But then I fall into the crowd that is happy to see things change for once... and I have been playing since 2nd ed so it's not because I'm a whipersnapper lol.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not completely against change, but I like things that define a setting to remain in place and part of what I like about Space Marines and the 40k setting is the absence of these almost God-like figures whose deeds are only memories that their children revere. By all means have Abaddon raid and destroy a planet, some storyline progression is a good thing, I just want it to happen in the 40k universe as I see it (as does everyone else and we'll all have slightly different interpretations as to what that means).

I'm also a fan of the little guy, the bog standard infantry. The introduction of ever bigger threats (new Tyranid gribblies, wraith knights, Tau Supremacy suits etc.) makes it feel like they matter less and less both fluffwise and on the table.

[Panzer]

Yeah their absence is part of the setting. Like a lot of other things (Cadia holding back the Eye of Terror for example). However in case you didn't notice GW is about to shake things up and advance the story in a rather big way which obviously changes the setting as well. We are stuck with the same setting frozen in time for WAY too long already.

You can always play narrative games without primarchs from a time before they came back with your group tho. It's all about communication with your opponents.

 

Edit: typos >_>

[Teetengee]

To me, the primarchs returning at the end time has always been part of the setting. Now, that hasn't always extended to folks like sang and manus, but it seems reasonable that everyone should get toys if possible, and warp ghosts/embodiments of the belief of countless human hordes coming back in the forms of those primarchs is totally within setting, no (new) macguffin needed. However, somewhere they need to point out that these beings (daemons, in actuality, although they might behave somewhat differently) are not actually the dead primarchs, but new things created in their image by the consequences of the imperial creed.

[Poppaby]

I have it on fairly good authority that Sanguinius will return this year. His body is in the golden coffin, regenerating. He will burst out of it as a sort of DC Sanguinius.

 

IE mad as a brush. And probably with black hair

[Paikis]

I have it on fairly good authority ... <snip>

 

The Codex Astartes does not recognize your authority.

 

Seriously though, where did you hear this rumour and why do you tihnk its a good one?

[Poppaby]

At the risk of a clichéd response -

 

A guy I know who has never once been wrong. But it should still be taken with a pinch of salt.

I believe him, and Ill still be surprised if it happens. Id take a new Dante model over the angel

[Panzer]

I heard such kind of rumours way too often in the past to actually believe it before one of the usual reliable sources say something similar.

Looking at you, Atia! ಠ_ಠ

[Arkaniss]

Welcome to the B&C Poppaby! It's quite an entrance but we can't put any stock in this rumour and personally I don't see it being true. No offence of course, but I don't think that it fits the fluff of the sarcophagus to reanimate the dead.

[Poppaby]

Ive screen shotted your response Arkaniss for later use in an "I told you so" capacity :)