Airbrush & Compressor Recommendations - Lower High-end

[Subtle Discord]

I've been mulling over the idea of getting an Airbrush for quite awhile, and I think I'm finally up for it; with the mix of a high quality thesis model coming up, a soon-to-be-active studio that will make good use of it, and of course my own hobby uses, it seems like a good time to make the investment. And that's the key word, I need this to be a long term investment.

 

I've tried to do some wider research over the years and more recently, and it can turn into cognitive overload quite quickly. Soooo many brands, tiers, and acronyms to choose from, it gets a bit daunting. I'll continue my research, but I'm all but positive there's a few here who can get me pointed in the right direction in a shorter time. Time is a bit of a factor, if this will be used in my thesis, so I'm posting here for some quick feedback.

 

I've read what's already been said here at B&C, and the advice has been good for someone looking for a good workhorse mid-level Airbrush that's reasonably versatile. In my case I'm interested in a little more so that I know I've got what I need to get started, and something that I can take really advantage of as I get more skill and confidence. I know I don't need absolute top-of-the-line, but I am willing to invest a few hundred more for improved performance, versatility, and durability/maintenance; versatility is a big factor for me, I know I'll be doing large and small projects and would prefer something that can handle that. Unless two different brushes really is the best solution for my needs, then I'm fine with that too.

 

See? Too many options/considerations. Need input!

 

Treating this as a long term investment I want to avoid an 'upgrade cycle' and try to get what I need today. I've dabbled with airbrushing in the past, so I do have a grasp of the basics, but it was quite a long time ago. I'm sure there's going to be a learning curve, but this is the kind of tool that I feel confident I'll progress quickly with, so I'm ok with a bit of a challenge at first, and even look forward to it. There's something about learning with hands-on tools that I just enjoy and tend to excel at.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can give me some input and a bit of direction on this decision.

[depthcharge12]

I was in your shoes, I bought Athrawes his Iwata HP-CS and that thing is a beast. However, you'll need to define expensive as the brush alone was $150 not counting the air compressor, cords, etc.

 

I bought myself a Paasche Talon (always always always go for gravity fed, double action, everything else is bells and whistles) for roughly $100 and it's done quite well so far, but has been temperamental at times, though that might be user error rather than brush error.

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks for the input. Yup, I've got the general information down, with gravity fed and double action being key. It's my understanding that $100-200 can get a good general purpose airbrush, and that's fine if it's going to give me the range I'm wanting; basically I know I'll want to make use of it on very small/fine work (single model), but also for larger jobs (vehicles, terrain). Since this is a bit more than a hobby investment and something for the studio I'm willing to consider $300-400 if the investment will provide really tangible improvements in ease-of-use/maintenance and/or the type of range I'm looking for. I understand that I'll need to swap needles and have no problem with that, but would like something that won't be a headache. Or it may make more sense to get two, one for each role, but that's the kind of insight I was hoping to get. I'd prefer an all-in-one solution, even if it's a bit more, but I'm also open to suggestion I can consider.

 

The same can be said for the compressor; I know I can get an ok one for $150, but I'm willing to spend some more for something if it's worth the investment. They're less daunting to do some research on, as there's not nearly as many as the selection of airbrushes. But insight from anyone with firsthand experience is always good. I also know I'll need some other odds-and-ends, with lines, some spare parts, a moisture trap, etc.. So I've got an ok handle on all that, just looking for 'user experience' feedback on the main hardware, as it were.

[depthcharge12]

Yeah, don't forget that you can get carried away with how much the airbrush costs and then forget there's a million and one accessories that, while not needed, are worth their weight in gold.

 

With regards to the Iwata, I've had better results with finer lines from it, however, I've also used it to paint some knight Titans:

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/81257ABE-C438-4727-9557-C0CE180E5EAE_zpslqkkezuw.jpg

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/6024E785-2E23-47E1-AE46-D230251A754C_zpszxvikebd.jpg

 

I would not hesitate to lay your hands on the HP-CS.

 

The reason why I got my Talon, besides price/value, is that it comes with three different needles and tips to perform different work. The largest tip, .66, has been a treat to prime and base coat my tanks. The middle sized, .3, has done really well with layering models. The .25, for some reason, has been giving me issues, but I think you need your paints to be super thin in order to utilize it.

 

While I tend to say "Buy the best airbrush you can AFFORD," I believe there is merit to using a mid-tier airbrush to learn everything before dropping $200+ on a Hardier & Stienbeck (sp).

 

You mention having a $300 budget if it makes it easier and useful, and to that I would say, buy a Paasche Talon TG-3 or Iwata Neo to learn on and find what exactly it is you are lacking in the airbrush. Then, you have another $200 or so to buy what you need in a high end airbrush, and won't have buyers remorse. That being said, you'll still have an extra quality value airbrush to do gunky work like priming, varnishing, and base coating that you would crap your pants to put through a high end brush.

 

As proof that I'm not speaking out of my posterior, here's some stuff I've done recently with a $100 airbrush:

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/2C4AF158-5E65-4DBB-9B93-5240BB269DE5_zpsnjxu3mka.jpg

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/2112E5A0-617F-4B9B-8E8C-6A667B1E8E48_zpsxi60npue.jpg

 

And yes I did the black AND the white on these guys with my airbrush:

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac316/treacyjohn2/C73A3C93-499F-40E8-9853-AC14AD899D68_zpsmd3ro6bp.jpg

[depthcharge12]

In addition, I think the most useful features I look for in an airbrush are:

 

•gravity fed

•large bowl (I'm a bowl mixer)

•dual action

•adjustable trigger control

 

I wouldn't hesitate to go to an Iwata HP-CS again (ask Athrawes how he's been with it since it was his gift), but I like the utility of the Talon.

 

I think education is key to skill with an airbrush in all honesty. Watch Kenny Boucher's airbrush hacks on YT and anything else you can get your hands on.

 

Edit: with air compressors...I don't want to sound pretentious, but a compressor is a compressor lol. I've bought 100-150 ones for me and Athrawes off of Amazon, and I've had zero issues. I think they are called Zeny and come from Eastern Europe. Just make sure it has a moisture trap, adjustable psi setting, and tank. Make sure to pick up some Teflon tape to cover the threads to prevent any leaks.

[KBA]

I'm with depth charge all the way on that Iwata model EXCEPT when it comes to air compressors. A piece of crap compressor will ruin your day, and constantly jam your brush with paint if you're getting any inconsistencies with spurts of pressure (my old one was a zeny, my new one is an iwata ninja jet). Mine tended to overheat constantly requiring you take annoying breaks between painting, and was also loud as hell. Lastly, you want a high quality hose that's not going to degrade on you. Breaks or holes in your hose are just as bad as your adjustable psi nob being knackered.

 

Hope this helps :)

[Subtle Discord]

All input helps, thanks. Yes, any really major points or tips-and-tricks so I can avoid certain headaches are also welcome. You can research with reading and watching the many excellent sources (Naturally, I've been doing that) but it's passive and may overlook something that I have no idea is useful to know. I want to supplement my own research with some input from people who are working hands-on today with exactly the subject matter I'll be looking to use it for (mostly), and be able to get direct clarification on anything if necessary.

 

I've simply seen enough stories of, "I started with "A", it was ok/crap. So I moved to "B", and it was much better. But then I got "C" and wish I had just invested in it to begin with." But when I look at the models that are listed, they're usually one of a family of models, and I just wonder if I'm missing something. I have no problem with a bit of an intentional upgrade path of invest in something good, then get something really nice later, and keep the good one for workhorse stuff; but I'd still like to get as high up the curve to start, without going really overboard.

 

Given what I can already do with all sorts of media, materials, and tools, I'm positive that I don't need to worry about a learning curve as much, so I don't want to make this purchased based on ease-of-use for a first timer. This is exactly the kind of tool that I'm very confident that I'll get the hang of reasonably quickly, so I just want something from day one that can grow with me as I gain skill, even if it's a little more challenging to start with. I've learned over the years that I tend to very quickly outgrow 'starter' sets and equipment, and usually wish I had just purchased a better solution from day one.

 

That doesn't mean cost goes out the window, it's still a major factor that I must balance and try to get the best bang-for-buck; but many times when I've worried too much about the price, I've ended up wishing I had just spent the extra in the first place, despite the (sometimes significant) increased cost. I've had to spend $300-500 to simply make models and projects for the college program I'm in with little or no return on my investment, and I've had to get over the fear of investing in costly equipment and materials for my small studio (an order of mould rubber can cost $400, for example). I've learned that sometimes spending a few hundred (or even more) extra to do it right the first time is worth it over the long haul. Since this is ultimately a studio tool, I know it will eventually make a roundabout return on the investment as long as I put it to regular use, so I want to get something that really fits my current and future needs If I can.

 

Thanks again for the input, and in advance for any other information that others might provide. Good food for thought.

[depthcharge12]

I'd definitely take the Iwata HP-CS then. It has everything you could want or need, and nothing you don't. Airbrushing I feel, is easy to learn, but hard to master.

 

I completely understand what you mean by investing in a long term thing, but there is such a thing as overpaying for stuff you don't need lol. You don't need to buy a Mercedes G-wagon to go 4 wheeling lol, a Jeep Rubicon would do just as well at 1/4th the cost.

 

But I conpletely get where you're coming from, invest in an Iwata Hp-CS, there's literally nothing bad I can say about it and the brush is only limited by your skill.

 

Honestly, I think there may be only one or two better airbrushes produced by Iwata that are better, but those are $$$ as they are crafted from metiorite iridium and forged by Haephastus himself.

[madscuzzy]

I'm from Singapore (along the equator), so humidity is a big issue here.  A compressor with an air tank is essential, not just for a smooth airflow (as most people would say), but it also helps to trap air and cool it down a bit before letting it back in the pipes.  This is not something most people realise, but it is essential.  I've run through a couple of compressors, from the portables, to a badger (my first), tankless and tank ones.  Go with tank.  Besides, not having the motor running all the time can be quite nice.  Suprisingly the size of the tank does not really matter too much, as the cut-offs will still kick in when the PSI drops to the cut off.  Big ones allow for long timing between the compressor kicking in, but not by too much.

 

Sparmax is a decent brand, if you are looking for a simple hobby compressor.

 

BUT if you are really thinking of investing in an excellent compressor, you might want to think of an 'OILED' compressor.  Most compressors are oil-less, which takes out the maintenance.  They will last a few years depending on the usage, but if you want silence, oiled compressors may be something you  want to think of.  I've got a sil-air one and I can barely hear it when the compressor kicks in (my comp fan is probably louder) but it requires oil changes every few months of usage.

 

Now to the airbrushes... The HP-CS is a good airbrush (friend has it).

 

I'll be frank.  Depending on what you want to do with it, it doesn't matter too much.  There is no one 'best airbrush'.  If what you want is to spray a base coat or general gradient, most airbrushes will perform the same.  A cheap airbrush (($50) will serve the same purpose BUT the feel of the airbrush and the build quality will suffer, but not by much.  A LOT of airbrushes are made in china/taiwan from the same factories, using the same molds, which is why there are so many clones out there.    Of course, QC can be an issue.  I've had friends whose airbrush fractured along the T joint.  But it was cheap.  Cheap enough to give away for free along with compressors.

 

A lot of airbrushes feel similar, but some are smoother than others, while some allow more tolerance when pulling back the trigger (the shape of the needle determines the flow rate of the air-paint mixture).  The size of the airbrush needle will also determine how fine the spray can go.

 

The smalest I have is 0.15 (H&S Infinity).  A 0.18 (Iwata CM B - Hephaestus yay!)  and a 0.2 (Badger Sotar, Wave Super Advanced 0.2) does not make a too much of a difference, cept in the ease of use of maintaining the fine line and how consistent the paint flows.  0.3 (Iwata Revolution BR, Wave Super Airbrush Trigger Type) is a good general purpose, and will do well for most things.  0.3 is nice as it doesn't clog as much as 0.2, especially when using acrylic paint.  0.5 (Iwata Revolution CR) are good if you want to cover large areas or if you want to run thicker paints, like some varnishes through the brush.  You probably won't use anything larger, unless you have really thick paint or want to paint large real life stuff like bike helmets etc.

 

All these are pretty straightforward brushes.  Some others have very nice features.  I was trained with the Aztek in school and it had a cartridge head that was super easy to clean.  Most folks seem to hate it but it is easy to clean and performs well enough, if you know what you are doing.  Besides it is cheap and easy to get ( I got a simple one at Walmart for $80 with paints and a turntable) and it worked just as well as their professional grade.

 

GW one sucks (to me generally)... but it is a re-skinned Badger 350 so it worked.  Adam Savage likes his single action (from tested).  I can't really agree.  BUT it is less tiring... and more forgiving for thinner-based paint that can mess up the internals of a double action.  Oh by the way, becareful when running thinners through the brushes.  Lower end brushes keep costs down by using O-rings instead of teflon seals.  O-rings will expand when in contact with thinners making them unusable (especially in the in trigger section).

 

The most interesting airbrush I have used yet is the Harder and Steinbach Infinity.  It has the softest gradient of any airbrush I have tried.  Most airbrushes (iwatas, badgers etc.) will soften the spray as you pull away, but you can get minimal feathering if you go up close.  The Sotar 2020, Iwata Custom Micron, Wave etc. can spray very fine lines... they can spray the trim of the shoulder pad, without masking but you need a lot of control.  Even at 0.15, the H&S can't.  BUT the gradients are so soft and smooth......

 

Uh yes... I have a tools fetish ( I think Subtle Discord is the same)........ If you do have questions, feel free to ask for specifics.

 

BTW, the ones I use the most are the Iwata BR then the Sotar 2020.... then the rest when I feel like taking them out.

 

Oh yeah, and don't forget the connectors!  1/8" is the most common.... the Iwata compatible type (H&S uses this too)  Badger is proprietary as is paasche.  A quick connect usually solves the problem and should be a must as it helps to release the brush quickly for washing or swapping.

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks for taking the time for writing up this thoughtful input. So much food for thought.

 

Yep, I have something for quality tools, but I don't know if I would use the word fetish. I just recognize when a good tool can perform how it should, and it can be worth the investment as long as you're making an informed decision... and yeah... ok... it's a fetish. :) I was a bit worried I might open a can of worms with this endeavor, and I can see now it's all but inevitable. I completely agree/understand that there is no 'best' brush and that's not what I'm looking for. I just want to make informed and strategic considerations so I can try to make the best choice I can starting out. I don't need an airbrush collection until I can better afford it. :)

 

There's a few names that I see come up quite often (HP-CS being a big one) and it's easy to zero in one one of those, but they tend to be more super solid middle-ground workhorse brushes. That's not to say that's a bad thing, but from what I'm absorbing from all of the research is that while many of those brushes are really good, they are better for solid versatility; they'll struggle a bit when you start to push them to more challenging finer work. Many/most would likely not miss it, but I suspect for my... 'nature'... I'll eventually want something that can give me the option of really fine/sharp/precise work. I may not even push it that hard all that often, but I'd rather it's up to the task when I do want really fine/subtle touches.

[madscuzzy]

The hp cs is a good brush. The iwatas have served me well. It's a 0.35 tho, so it works very well as a general purpose brush. It may not get the really fine lines you may want but unless you are really wanting to try fine it won't matter so much. Folks i know who can afford it usually go for 2 airbrushes. A 0.2 and 0.3. The 0.2 are indispensable if you are planning for really fine details for eg faces, flames of war, epic etc. But the smaller the tip, the easier to clog. Trade-offs i guess.

 

Having 2 brushes allows u to colour swap quickly too, or continue working if one gets clogged and you need to wotk fast.

 

Id still recommend the h&s infinity for effects... Haaa.

[Subtle Discord]

Thanks again to everyone for the input, it's all helped me look at all of the factors that I think make sense to me, when considering this investment.

 

I guess on a certain level that's the question I was asking without knowing it, and now I have a better understanding. A ~0.3mm needle is quite common and very general purpose; in a good quality brush it will perform very well and likely be good for a majority of the applications needed. But I wasn't sure if a ~0.2mm needle is really going to have that much of a impact, or would a 0.3mm be enough. I can see now that I would prefer having the versatility of a 0.2mm needle from the start.

 

After the dialogue here I started looking a little more at the specific strengths of some of the brushes while I was researching; specs are one thing and can all look very similar, but what are reviewers saying about the actual performance/characteristics of the results? For me personally, while the quality of the gradient matters, since I'm starting out I suspect almost any 'good' airbrush will perform well enough that I'm going to be amazed. I'm confident that I'm more interested in the precision so I'm taking a good look at the Sotar 2020 based on lots of factors.

 

In fact, here's a little lesson on the seduction of Amazon and the benefits of shopping around. Naturally, during any search you're going to be inundated with sponsored Amazon ads for the researched products and it can be quite easy to take the path of least resistance. I was actually surprised at the reasonable prices I was seeing for most of the brands I was first looking into; $125-150 CAD can get a great airbrush that I was expecting to be over $200. I'm willing to give my budget a bit more room, so that gives me some options I did consider at first. Now, when I priced the Sotar 2020 on Amazon it was about $100 more ($230-250) and that seemed reasonable in a vacuum.

 

Now, I've got a thing about shopping locally and supporting a local economy; the internet marketplace is amazing and can provide access to virtually anything, but money spent locally really does stay local. That's a good thing. Since I get most of my hobby supplies and paints from a local online shop, I had a look to see what they stock. To my pleasant surprise they have the Sotar 2020 for $160 CAD; even with with most of the other odds-and-ends I'll need/want to get started (minus only the compressor) it's about the price I was getting from Amazon for just the airbrush alone. Nothing wrong with that, and it just reinforces what I've learned; be careful of the impulse buy and shop around some, and take the time to look locally if you can.

[SW1]

I'm at the point where my cheap free with the compressor/tank brush is probably holding me back from developing my airbrushing skills.

 

So this thread came at a really good time.

 

Thanks to everyone who's given input!!!

 

:tu:

[madscuzzy]

The Sotar is an excellent brush.  Amazon is evil.  There are times when they over-order and stuff goes for real cheap.  The Sotar was one of those off chances.

 

Just to note.  A common technique is declog an airbrush is to cover the nozzle and release the spray.  As the nozzle is covered, the air will flow back into the cup.  This helps to declog the paint within the chamber. 

 

Airbrushes like the Sotar has a prong head.  It allows for the user to see the airspray and get a lil bit more precision.  The prong guards keep it safe when you drop it.  However, this design  (which is common in a lot of the higher end brushes, go figure) prevents you from blowing back.

 

This came with my H&S (which has the same problem) but they sell it separately.  It is essentially a plastic cap and it fits onto the Sotar.  It is supposed to not react with thinners and stuff hence they sell it for a bit.  You can use any kind of cap (you can probably build it out of plastic card too, just make sure the seal is strong).

 

https://www.amazon.com/Harder-Steenbeck-blowback-cleaning-SprayGunner/dp/B01GSFK2H6/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1486112839&sr=8-11&keywords=harder+and+steenbeck+cap

 

As for paints, you can use a variety of thinners/alcohols to thin your paint.  I highly recommend the Vallejo airbrush thinner.  Thus far it has worked wonders for all brands of paint.  it doesn't separate the pigments like some others do.  You can even revive some caked up paint..... yum.

[SW1]

I was just using the thinner and having all sorts of clogging issues even with overly thinned paint. I then started adding a few drops of the Vallejo flow improver and my airbrush suddenly is doing what I was expecting it to do.

 

I also think you might want to watch this ...

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6NxHXwOWn94

 

It's put into context a lot of the which airbrush is best arguments.

[Brother-serpent Tylydox]

If you are looking to save money, check out Kijiji or the Craigslist.  It shouldn't be too hard to fund a good deal on a used air compressor in the GTA.