Jarkaira Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 So I did some mathhammering and thought I should share these thoughts with you guys too if someone might be interested. At first I made some units with Quartermaster app that would be around 250pts and then calculated the probability for said unit's weapon(s) to shave off a hull point and then multiplied it with amount of shots. Decided that I should also take a note off points spent so I did a simple index for each unit in which a 1.00 means that unit costs 100pts and shaves off one hull point. Here they go: Unit Name HP Loss (FS) Pts Index (FS) LD Rapiers 2,22 1,25 230 0,97 0,54 Graviton Rap 1,88 1,88 225 0,83 0,83 Mortis Lasc 1,48 0,74 310 0,48 0,24 Mortis MM 0,74 0,00 250 0,30 0,00 Javelin AS MM 1,67 1,67 255 0,65 0,65 HS Squad MM 0,67 0,00 225 0,30 0,00 HS Squad Las 1,11 0,56 245 0,45 0,23 Castellax DF 0,89 0,44 230 0,39 0,19 Sicaran Venator 1,11 0,67 230 0,48 0,29 Predator Lasc 0,89 0,44 250 0,36 0,18 Lightning 3,21 2,92 235 1,37 1,24 Land Speeder 2,21 2,21 230 0,96 0,96 In case of Multi-Meltas I have assumed that rapid moving platforms can get to side armor and therefore negate the Flare Shield and in case of Graviton Rapiers I assumed they'll hit 75% of the time. Edit: Here is a pic for better reading. http://kuofi.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IMG_1306.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Interesting. How is the Land Speeders equipped? MM/grav? Other units I'd consider: Laser Destroyer Vindicator Squadron with Command Tank Cyclonic Melta Lance Leviathan MM Sky Slayers Dual-grav Contemptor Cortus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 This seems rad, but I am lost at how to read your data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I was really excited for this until I realized I can't read binary :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The pic really helps. Also, have you ran the numbers for regular landspeeders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamy248 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 So if I'm reading it correctly, the Lightning is the way to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 So if I'm reading it correctly, the Lightning is the way to go? Kraken Penetrator Missiles are flying chainfists that can get BS5 and tank hunters, iirc. Soooo pretty good yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamy248 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Oh dear. Now that you've said that, I've got a sudden urge to model chainfists in the missile positions on the Lightning :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 How do I btw embed a picture in my posts? As it can be seen Lightning is the way to go but I wouldn't understate some others too. Gravitons work well and Land Speeders with MM/Grav are a surprisingly good option. I guess I'll be adding Graviton Rapiers to my own lists since I play Head of the Gorgon and it prevents me from taking more than one Fast Attack and I already have ordered Lightning from FW. Anyhow Land Speeders are cheap and I might just add those too to find out how I can manage to use them. Interesting. How is the Land Speeders equipped? MM/grav? Other units I'd consider: Laser Destroyer Vindicator Squadron with Command Tank Cyclonic Melta Lance Leviathan MM Sky Slayers Dual-grav Contemptor Cortus Land Speeders are MM/Graviton Laser Destryoyer Vindis are a good candidate for more mathhammer since I initially dropped them out as they didn't fit the price range. Might check them later today. Cyclonic Melta Lance Leviathan I dropped out as it IMO works better with single CML and Drill than with two CMLs so it is out of that shooting only option. MM Sky-Slayers underperform in this role as they cost too much and are basically MM Javelins without Cyclones. Dual Graviton Contemptor Cortus is another candidate for mathhammer and it would perform better than MM or Lascannon Mortis Dreads. Might be taking this in any case as it would be a fluffy choice for my Iron Hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I don't get your list, but I heared Lightning is good, so I got that going for me, which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 You rang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Some very cool data dude, thanks for working up. For those not able to read it still, FS = Flare Shield, so it's just the same scenario but assumes a flare shield is in play, except for fast units or Grav where it generally doesn't affect their performance. So basically, "how many HP will I delete for 250pts of this unit against AV14 or AV14 with a Flare Shield" Very interesting that Landspeeders are almost as good as Lightnings when a FS is considered (.7HP difference) but have the advantage of more than one salvo, but are also far squishier and vulnerable. A next step to this would be the likelihood of outright ending the vehicle too, so a 7+ result. Something Grav can't do but some of the others can with multiple AP1/2 pens. For example, with the Lightning removing 3+ HP, at AP1 that is basically a guaranteed statistical explodes result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Binomial probability for Lighning blowing up something outright is 70%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 This is very useful for considering how many hps a unit can strip off a spartan/land raider, but I feel like not considering the chance each weapon has to explode the tank is an important consideration this chart is missing. For example, if the lightning didn't have a high chance of exploding a tank on the turn it shows up, I doubt it would be considered so useful for dealing with spartans. Also out of curiosity did you factor twin linked and tank hunter into your calculations where those rules apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtDan Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Dual grav secutors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 The LD vindicators tend to edge out on the LD rapiers. I think if you did this chart again it would be great if you just did it by weapon rather than unit type. Still a great chart though and thanks for sharing One thing to keep in mind with this chart is that it does not factor in damage potential. For example, while the lightning is a monster when it comes onto the table, once it blows it's load it's one-and-done. A LD rapier will probably get 2-3 turns of shooting in the time that the lighting to get onto the table. For me the more valuable part of this chart are the under performers- MM HS squads, predators, castellax, and mortis dreads. Seems crazy that we're in a world where melta and lascannons are the lower end of damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 what about A deredeo w/ the Arachnus lascannon battery? Clocks in about 235 or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 what about A deredeo w/ the Arachnus lascannon battery? Clocks in about 235 or so Solid suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ironic Warrior Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Forgive me for asking a dumb question, is the index on the right literally a comparison of points-hull point effectiveness or something? The maths wizard in me is curious and it seems a nice addition if that's the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Forgive me for asking a dumb question, is the index on the right literally a comparison of points-hull point effectiveness or something? The maths wizard in me is curious and it seems a nice addition if that's the case! Come on man, it's been explained a couple times already - read the thread! But yes, it is, how many HP 250pts of X will cause against AV14 or AV14 with a flare shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Arachnus Deredeo will be included in the update. My ex got flue and I had to watch my daughter yesterday but will update rest today. Lord Asvaldir, yes Tank Hunters like in Lightning and also Ordnance's roll two pick highest is factored in unless I missed something. Yaaar's Revenge, yes Index is cost effectiveness index as in HP loss divided by points cost then multiplied by 100. Easiest way of comparing something with variable pts costs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-Potato of Mankind Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I plan to eventually run a squadron of Laser Vindis. 9, TL S9 AP1 shots turn 1 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 You must be fun to play against. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ironic Warrior Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Forgive me for asking a dumb question, is the index on the right literally a comparison of points-hull point effectiveness or something? The maths wizard in me is curious and it seems a nice addition if that's the case! Come on man, it's been explained a couple times already - read the thread! But yes, it is, how many HP 250pts of X will cause against AV14 or AV14 with a flare shield. Read it, and it is not explained fully - it is said that a 1.00 is for a 100 point unit doing 1 hull point of damage - what I'm asking is not what it is (I understand that) but something along the lines of; Does a value of 1.5 mean it is 50% more efficient than it should be or am I just getting confused by it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Yes in case of one unit having index of 1.0 and other 1.5 then the one with 1.5 is 50% more effectively points wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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