Black Cohort Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 And then there's that pair of Army regiments that just happened to be refueling at Prospero at the worst possible moment... You mean the ones that were redirected there by order of the warmaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I like the idea of two legions basically fighting on even ground, kind of. The Wolves have their primarch in the fight the whole time, the Tsons have Tzeentch boosting their powers plus homefield advantage. 1. Magnus wasted much of the TSons' homefield advantage 2. The TSons are psykers (some of them)...they don't have the god Tzeentch in their corner. In fact, you could argue that Tzeentch works against them by flesh changing them 3. A 25K to 60K plus trade can't be the result of two legions fighting on "even ground". Clearly, the Imperial side has the advantages of surprise/lowered defenses, an anti-psyker primarch on the field...and later Valdor (a mini-primarch) on the field along with custodians and anti-psyker SoS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Yeah, reiterating, it's mostly the Sisters that cause the fall of the Sons. Valdor's authority brings them down so I said the Custodes deploying was the turning point (paraphrasing myself), but it's more accurate to say the Talons deploying is the turning point. The Custodes work as bodyguards to the Sisterhood, who the Sons quickly learn to try and target, and together they're utterly devastating. The Thousand Sons without the psychic powers vs Custodian Guard and Space Wolves don't stand much of a chance. There's a great bit where Valdor duels 30 of the Khenetai Blade Occult at the same time (in the near presence of the Sisterhood, so they have no powers) and they nearly wound him unto death, but he still takes them all down. His injuries take him mostly out of the battle until the push on the Raptorae (I think?) pyramid where he duels Phosis T'kar. Custodian super-healing is a bugger. 2. The TSons are psykers (some of them)...they don't have the god Tzeentch in their corner. What makes you say that? :P I guess he's not in their corner all the time, but at various points they are most certainly drawing energy directly from the powers of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Seeing stacked the odds were against them I feel the tSons accounted for themselves quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The miniature is also going to be available at Warhammer World as well, if you can get there. I recommend it; I snagged it at the Weekender and it's rather gorgeous. That'll be tough living in the states. Mayhap I can convince someone to get me one...hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The miniature is also going to be available at Warhammer World as well, if you can get there. I recommend it; I snagged it at the Weekender and it's rather gorgeous.That'll be tough living in the states. Mayhap I can convince someone to get me one...hmmmm Doesn't GW/FW go to a few major cons in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Wow this all sounds epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I like the idea of two legions basically fighting on even ground, kind of. The Wolves have their primarch in the fight the whole time, the Tsons have Tzeentch boosting their powers plus homefield advantage. 1. Magnus wasted much of the TSons' homefield advantage 2. The TSons are psykers (some of them)...they don't have the god Tzeentch in their corner. In fact, you could argue that Tzeentch works against them by flesh changing them 3. A 25K to 60K plus trade can't be the result of two legions fighting on "even ground". Clearly, the Imperial side has the advantages of surprise/lowered defenses, an anti-psyker primarch on the field...and later Valdor (a mini-primarch) on the field along with custodians and anti-psyker SoS Yes Tzeentch unleashed the flesh-change again to finally bring the Tsons to heal, but until then their little daemon-familiars (I don't think all of them were magnus) were busy expanding their powers until then. And it's in the excerpt page we read awhile back that said that the Tsons had consummate homefield advantage, able to weave, dodge, create ambush's, and use portals to entrap and harry the Wolves. That sounds alot like solid homefield advantage. Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Your bias reaches even beyond this site Runefyre, I saw you posted this same thing on Atia's site. The wolves don't do it alone, and both legions end up smashed. The end result has never changed, both legions are wrecked and taken to the sidelines of the rest of the main conflict. The wolves always got tricked. The sons always got shattered and pushed to Chaos. Nothing in this book will change that but will make it all more believable. Your wolves shouldn't be elevated above anyone else, and this is not a crowning achievement, but the tragic destruction of 2 loyal legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Scribe, this one of the things I worried about once the Wolves book finally hit; just like a lot of Ultramarines fans (and one in particular) getting up in arms when their favorite boys in blue were shown not to be perfect in Tempest (or Know No Fear for that matter), we're starting to see some backlash from Wolves fans across the internet with their treatment in this book. Oh, no, the Wolves might have needed a little help to destroy another marine Legion who is known for their psychic might which is notoriously difficult or impossible for most humans or astartes to defend against! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Your bias reaches even beyond this site Runefyre, I saw you posted this same thing on Atia's site. My comment (at least the one I think you're referring to?) on Atia's blog were about the Tsons specifically, I didn't say the Wolves weren't shattered at the same time, just that they did a good job at shattering the Tsons. The wolves don't do it alone, and both legions end up smashed. Duh. But heaven forbid I focus on the deeds of my favorite faction in this engagement. The end result has never changed, both legions are wrecked and taken to the sidelines of the rest of the main conflict. The Wolves were sidelined, yes I don't think I've argued that they weren't? But clearly the Wolves needed additional wrecking, Horus sent the AL to finish them off. The wolves always got tricked. I've never argued that? The sons always got shattered and pushed to Chaos. They got shattered, but were already pushed to chaos by Magnus. It was inevitable whether the Wolves shattered them or not. I'll pm you the quotes from Wrath of Magnus if you like. Nothing in this book will change that but will make it all more believable. Your wolves shouldn't be elevated above anyone else, and this is not a crowning achievement, but the tragic destruction of 2 loyal legions. I don't want Wolves to be elevated. I don't remember saying that. What I WANT is obviously different from what IS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Invictus Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities. I thought Russ actually was a psyker and was just in denial about it like the Rune Priests... Didn't he kill a bunch of ksons in ATS with his psychic roar when they were getting ready to fight over the library? Does Inferno address the wolves hypocrisy with their continued use of Rune Priests after Nikaea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just last page Rune, 'i want all the glory for the wolves' you're clearly missing the import and context and nuances of what this book is delivering and trying to do. Scribe, this one of the things I worried about once the Wolves book finally hit; just like a lot of Ultramarines fans (and one in particular) getting up in arms when their favorite boys in blue were shown not to be perfect in Tempest (or Know No Fear for that matter), we're starting to see some backlash from Wolves fans across the internet with their treatment in this book. Oh, no, the Wolves might have needed a little help to destroy another marine Legion who is known for their psychic might which is notoriously difficult or impossible for most humans or astartes to defend against! Its a well known issue, remarked on by more than one GW/FW/BL employee.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Just last page Rune, 'i want all the glory for the wolves' you're clearly missing the import and context and nuances of what this book is delivering and trying to do. That's what I want, 'cause I'm a fanboy . It's okay to have favorites. Of course that's not what actually happens. Plus I made that comment in jest *sigh*. I need to use more emojis in future I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities. I thought Russ actually was a psyker and was just in denial about it like the Rune Priests... Didn't he kill a bunch of ksons in ATS with his psychic roar when they were getting ready to fight over the library? All the primarchs are psychic warp-beings to some degree, Magnus was the only one to actively turn that to something that looked like what human psykers do. The WS were pretty clear that though the Khan wasn't like a librarian, he was 'gifted' and did things that should surely be impossible. It's part and parcel of being a primarch. It's innate. EDIT: Sanguinius and Curze's visions, Pertruabo being able to see the EoT, Corax stealing his image from men's minds. Russ's rules could probably have done with, say, a one-use morale/anti-morale effect to represent it but it's not put across as a specifically anti-psyker weapon that he'd been programmed with. It's that same 'meeting a primarch for the first time' shock thing but a damn sight more intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities.I thought Russ actually was a psyker and was just in denial about it like the Rune Priests... Didn't he kill a bunch of ksons in ATS with his psychic roar when they were getting ready to fight over the library? Does Inferno address the wolves hypocrisy with their continued use of Rune Priests after Nikaea? I believe Wrath of Magnus cleared up the "hypocrisy" on the part of the Wolves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Speaking about that Wrath of Magnus, any idea if and where to find it in novel form rather than game supplement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities.I thought Russ actually was a psyker and was just in denial about it like the Rune Priests... Didn't he kill a bunch of ksons in ATS with his psychic roar when they were getting ready to fight over the library? Does Inferno address the wolves hypocrisy with their continued use of Rune Priests after Nikaea? I believe Wrath of Magnus cleared up the "hypocrisy" on the part of the Wolves? Kind of... The Wolves do use the warp but it seems(?) to be run through an intermediary in the form of the Wolf Spirit, which may(?) make the practice safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would actually mark one in favour of the Wolves (and probably Russ in particular) that they are not going after TS alone, on their home turf. For all the bad assery and savage imagery they put out to the world, they are very good and very professional in what they do. It's good strategic planning and fleshes out why they get this kind of assignments - they act tough, they are tough but they are not glory hounds and they are not so stupid as to try to take another Legion down on their own. And I agree that the whole thing shows how both Legions get mauled, to get them out of the picture before the Heresy gets underway. It's a waste of potential and resources on a massive scale and a huge gap in the Imperium's armor early on.That, to me, always was part of the true tragedy of Prosperous. Both sides get played, both lose when you look at the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would actually mark one in favour of the Wolves (and probably Russ in particular) that they are not going after TS alone, on their home turf. For all the bad assery and savage imagery they put out to the world, they are very good and very professional in what they do. It's good strategic planning and fleshes out why they get this kind of assignments - they act tough, they are tough but they are not glory hounds and they are not so stupid as to try to take another Legion down on their own. And I agree that the whole thing shows how both Legions get mauled, to get them out of the picture before the Heresy gets underway. It's a waste of potential and resources on a massive scale and a huge gap in the Imperium's armor early on.That, to me, always was part of the true tragedy of Prosperous. Both sides get played, both lose when you look at the bigger picture. When you put it that way, it sounds alot more bearable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Invictus Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Oh, and FW seems to have "forgotten" that Russ HAS anti-psycher abilities.I thought Russ actually was a psyker and was just in denial about it like the Rune Priests... Didn't he kill a bunch of ksons in ATS with his psychic roar when they were getting ready to fight over the library? Does Inferno address the wolves hypocrisy with their continued use of Rune Priests after Nikaea? I believe Wrath of Magnus cleared up the "hypocrisy" on the part of the Wolves?Kind of... The Wolves do use the warp but it seems(?) to be run through an intermediary in the form of the Wolf Spirit, which may(?) make the practice safer. Had not heard that. So then they do still use the warp but may have it cleansed by a warp entity(daemon)? I guess my question remains of whether it's addressed in Inferno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Fenris has its own world spirit which the rune priests draw from. Addressed in Wrath of Magnus. Magnus tried and failed to corrupt it in his latest invasion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Fenris has its own world spirit which the rune priests draw from. Addressed in Wrath of Magnus. Magnus tried and failed to corrupt it in his latest invasion How does that actually work though? Would it not just be a facet of the warp that they're drawing their powers from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betrayer41 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Fenris has its own world spirit which the rune priests draw from. Addressed in Wrath of Magnus. Magnus tried and failed to corrupt it in his latest invasion HAHA what a LOSER!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runefyre Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Fenris has its own world spirit which the rune priests draw from. Addressed in Wrath of Magnus. Magnus tried and failed to corrupt it in his latest invasion How does that actually work though? Would it not just be a facet of the warp that they're drawing their powers from? A"calm" pool in warp created by the spirit of Fenris is my theory. So basically a benevolent daemon of sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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