The implications of Guillimans return for the Imperium.

[Angel_of_Blood]

Hi everyone!

 

So Guilliman is returning. Loyalist Primarch, finally back at the current state of the Imperium. How do people think GW will handle this lore wise?

 

I've always viewed the idea of a Primarch returning as a huge upheaval for the Imperium. We know that the High Lords are paranoid, jealous and power hungry. The return of a Primarch, though on paper being beyond amazing, to them, must be a huge concern. A being like a Primarch could easily rally huge swathes of the Imperial forces loyalty to him, and him alone. The Astartes support and loyalty alone would be huge. Sure there are some chapters that would probably be wary or stay away, but huge swathes of them would bend the knee to a Primarch immediately, especially in this case as such a massive number of chapters are of Ultramarine descent anyway. As for the Guard and others, this is a Primarch, a being of myth, legend and epic sagas. Can't imagine him not getting a massive amount of support.

 

This would clearly present a very large risk and danger to the High Lords.

 

Next we have the Ecclesiarchy. How are they going to react, or by extension, anyone in the Imperium that is religious. The Emperor is a God to them. What does that make one of his sons to the modern citizen? A god himself? A demi-god, arch angel, saint etc. How would they not rally instantly to his cause. Or on the flipside, would the paranoia and thirst for power make them decry and denounce the Primarch as a false idol or similar.

 

There's so much more from the Imperiums perspective. Doesn't even scratch the surface of how Guilliman will view the Imperium. Sure he's got immediate concerns of the Black Crusade. But how is he possibly going to react to the modern Imperium. It's almost everything his father didn't want. It is so far from the ideals of the Emperor and what he wanted that it isn't even funny. Guilliman or any of the Primarchs would surely be appalled.

 

Again, there really is so much to cover and so many issues that should arise lore wise. I just wonder how GW will tackle it, or if they are going to gloss over the majority of issues that really should be raised for the sake of simplicity and story telling and advancement. I would be really disappointed if so many of these issues aren't addressed, but at the same time realise just how complicated it is.

 

Thoughts?

[Race Bannon]

GW should gloss over a lot. You know, let the players create the narrative relative to their location, experience and (most important) enjoyment of the hobby.

 

Otherwise, it would dictating the story. Look at how this community has reacted so far to the Gathering Storm story. And I mean try to consider it panoramically. From where I sit, it is evenly received with cheers and jeers. Why? Because GW said so.

 

Much like bringing a Primarchs back.

[Demigod]

I don't think that Guilliman will have any large impact on how the Imperium functions. He is not an ideologue fanatic neither in 30k nor do I expect him to be in 40K. He is rather practical and opportunistic. There is a reason why so many of the other primarchs and even the Emperor and Malcador thought than sooner or later he will turn renegade. Also unlike the other primarchs ( except for Dorn ) Guilliman is rather well known on Terra and commands great respect so they can not really outright attack him like they could with some of the other primarchs. I expect for him to placate the high lords like not interfering with the Ecceliarchy and they in turn proclaim him chosen by the Emperor to rule and things like that, while making some subtle changes.

 

Many people also over blow his organizational  capabilities. Ultramar had all the pre-conditions to become a prosperous region. Away from the Eye,limited enemies ,having inter-stellar travel even before the Emperor arrived. Lorgar who was in a somewhat similar situations was just as good at rebuilding planets and making them prosperous. Everyone is expecting a reformer in Guilliam but I think that he will be nothing more than a populist .

 

This is also why I think GW brought Guilliman first because he is  the only one that would look at this situation and try to work with it to attain power and not take drastic actions immediately. This is also why all the trouble will start when the other guys start to arrive:

 

Russ-will definitely start a fight almost immediately ,the one reason why I don't see him starting an outright civil war is because the SW are too weak at the moment and he would not like to destroy everything so he will probably be in some kind of cold war with the imperium . Acting somewhat how the DA behave currently.

 

Corax-is pretty much the same as Russ just more subtle.

 

Khan- He could fight and have some campaigns but at the end he will just go back to the border regions. I can't see him trying to change the Imperium nor having an ambition to rule it. I could see him leaving everything the same as long as no one bothers him.

 

Vulkan again the same as Khan. He has never had any ambition to rule,he can lead forces but that is about it. I expect either him or the Khan to come last.

 

Lion-Now here in my opinion comes the strongest candidate to go renegade. He never agreed to the legions disbanding and with the Unforgiven he would end up leading a Legion almost instantly. The Lion is a figure who rather commands respect, Typhus described him like being in the presence of a predator near him and also Azrael has tried to build a positive image for the DA lately so he could also call upon a lot of allies.  The Lion does not like Guilliman so when he comes to Terra and sees Guilliman ruling and preventing him to deal with institutions like the ecclesiarchy or the BT I expect things to go bad pretty fast. He is also is the only primarch except for Guilliam who has the resources to go against the Imperium and be relevant.

 

Dorn,Ferrus an Sanguinius I consider dead and I think it would be a large mistake to bring them back. 

[Karthak]

Well the leaks do say that he's not pleased with the state of the Imperium...

 

Imperium Secundus Mk. 2: Electric bogaloo?

[Joe]

Keep advancing the story through the Gathering Storm/similar books, however include side-fluff in White Dwarf and via Warhammer TV to what else is going on in the universe. And on that note, bring back Chapter Approved.

[Lord Marshal]

So I'm pretty darn confident we're going to see another Imperial Civil War/Not-Horus Heresy. With Abbadon anti-climatically killed off, Chaos will go and lick its wounds in the Eye for a while (AKA do nothing). The Eldar served their purpose as a Cherkov's Gunman to deliver Guilliman back so now they can vanish from the story. Meanwhile, the game will pump out Primarchs probably once every six months with a host of new loyalist models. Black Library will focus on The Avenger's style antics of these Primarchs, as well as books detailing what they were doing whilst they were MIA.

 

The story will then focus nigh-exclusively on this civil war between the Primarchs and Imperium. Xenos and Chaos will occasionally show up in the middle of a battle as an overused plot device to unite the 'feuding but still amicable loyalist primarchs' as a reason to show that they're both the good guys who are trying to do the right thing. The Imperial Guard/Sisters of Battle will be thrown in now and again to get slaughtered and show how desperate it is for the protagonists.

[karden00]

I don't think that Guilliman will have any large impact on how the Imperium functions. He is not an ideologue fanatic neither in 30k nor do I expect him to be in 40K. He is rather practical and opportunistic. There is a reason why so many of the other primarchs and even the Emperor and Malcador thought than sooner or later he will turn renegade. Also unlike the other primarchs ( except for Dorn ) Guilliman is rather well known on Terra and commands great respect so they can not really outright attack him like they could with some of the other primarchs. I expect for him to placate the high lords like not interfering with the Ecceliarchy and they in turn proclaim him chosen by the Emperor to rule and things like that, while making some subtle changes.

 

Many people also over blow his organizational  capabilities. Ultramar had all the pre-conditions to become a prosperous region. Away from the Eye,limited enemies ,having inter-stellar travel even before the Emperor arrived. Lorgar who was in a somewhat similar situations was just as good at rebuilding planets and making them prosperous. Everyone is expecting a reformer in Guilliam but I think that he will be nothing more than a populist .

 

This is also why I think GW brought Guilliman first because he is  the only one that would look at this situation and try to work with it to attain power and not take drastic actions immediately. This is also why all the trouble will start when the other guys start to arrive:

 

Russ-will definitely start a fight almost immediately ,the one reason why I don't see him starting an outright civil war is because the SW are too weak at the moment and he would not like to destroy everything so he will probably be in some kind of cold war with the imperium . Acting somewhat how the DA behave currently.

 

Corax-is pretty much the same as Russ just more subtle.

 

Khan- He could fight and have some campaigns but at the end he will just go back to the border regions. I can't see him trying to change the Imperium nor having an ambition to rule it. I could see him leaving everything the same as long as no one bothers him.

 

Vulkan again the same as Khan. He has never had any ambition to rule,he can lead forces but that is about it. I expect either him or the Khan to come last.

 

Lion-Now here in my opinion comes the strongest candidate to go renegade. He never agreed to the legions disbanding and with the Unforgiven he would end up leading a Legion almost instantly. The Lion is a figure who rather commands respect, Typhus described him like being in the presence of a predator near him and also Azrael has tried to build a positive image for the DA lately so he could also call upon a lot of allies.  The Lion does not like Guilliman so when he comes to Terra and sees Guilliman ruling and preventing him to deal with institutions like the ecclesiarchy or the BT I expect things to go bad pretty fast. He is also is the only primarch except for Guilliam who has the resources to go against the Imperium and be relevant.

 

Dorn,Ferrus an Sanguinius I consider dead and I think it would be a large mistake to bring them back. 

 

Where on earth are you getting some of your ideas?

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I don't think that Guilliman will have any large impact on how the Imperium functions. He is not an ideologue fanatic neither in 30k nor do I expect him to be in 40K. He is rather practical and opportunistic. There is a reason why so many of the other primarchs and even the Emperor and Malcador thought than sooner or later he will turn renegade. Also unlike the other primarchs ( except for Dorn ) Guilliman is rather well known on Terra and commands great respect so they can not really outright attack him like they could with some of the other primarchs. I expect for him to placate the high lords like not interfering with the Ecceliarchy and they in turn proclaim him chosen by the Emperor to rule and things like that, while making some subtle changes.

Lion-Now here in my opinion comes the strongest candidate to go renegade. He never agreed to the legions disbanding and with the Unforgiven he would end up leading a Legion almost instantly. The Lion is a figure who rather commands respect, Typhus described him like being in the presence of a predator near him and also Azrael has tried to build a positive image for the DA lately so he could also call upon a lot of allies. The Lion does not like Guilliman so when he comes to Terra and sees Guilliman ruling and preventing him to deal with institutions like the ecclesiarchy or the BT I expect things to go bad pretty fast. He is also is the only primarch except for Guilliam who has the resources to go against the Imperium and be relevant.

Dorn,Ferrus an Sanguinius I consider dead and I think it would be a large mistake to bring them back.

Guilliman splitting the Legions was not by choice. Anyone thinks otherwise is using their "Head Canon"

Spoiler tag for some info

Guilliman, the 11th Company

Lion - By Proxy the Unforgiven

Sanguinius - Blood Angels I am not sure with them - Given who ordered the split it could be The Angel seen this future and gave him this order.

Dorn - The Last Wall Protocol - By proxy the Black Templar

Russ - Not splitting in the first place - Why didnt Guilliman force his hand? He did with Dorn.

Corax - Not sure

Vulkan - Asked for it not to be enforced, again Guilliman didnt force his hand.

The Khan - Not sure

Ferrus - Not sure.

But you can bet your bottom dollar all Primarchs had a way around it... Even Guilliman.

And him turning Renegade? Really? Horus himself knew he would never turn hence using the Word Bearers to sucker punch them at Calth, even this they were used in turn for the slight at Monarchia.

As for the Lion, as its been proved once and for all he is Loyal, hell he was going to start a war on Macragge when he thought Imperium Secundus was a betrayal of the Emperor, Guilliman does not dislike the Lion he just didnt like the any means nesessary that the Lion will sometimes employ.

People are clutching to meme of the Lion being a traitor because Lolz...

Not one of the Loyalist Primarchs will like the way the Imperium is, Guilliman is the first of the Loyalist and its stated he is not impressed, Its safe to best the Lion, Dorn and the Rest are not going to like it much either, and lastly Guilliman never wanted to lead.

[Triszin]

I said this in the previous primarch returning speculation thread but:

 

 

Guilliman is the best option for a returning primarch. specifically being the first.

 

WHy?

 

A. 

Guilliman was a empire builder, he was good at politics, just as he was at tactics and war.

He followed what the emperor said and intended, Science, purge with worship of themselves as gods. only to be awoken in a time when everyone worships the emperor, the primarchs as gods/demi-gods.

 

This will force him to come to terms with the current imperium, and be the Bridge between what the emperor intended and current day.

 

Guilliman is mainly a plot device, to create more fractures in the imperium, Primarch vs high lords & chruch/esschiarlly. 

 

 

 

B.

In addition to Guilliman returning to massive chaos black legion invasions everywhere it will most likely cause him to either break the COdex AStartes or to alter it. Removing the Cap, or moving the cap on marines to 10-20K per chapter. 

 

 

C.

After the main brunt of hte 13th is fought off, I suspect guilliman will leave the imperium, reform the imperium segundus and recall all of his off spring chapters.

 

the imperium segundus will be the imperium minus the church. with a heavy emphasis on science, tech, and innovation. 

 

 

D. 

The impact of the Poster boy primarch/marine turnign his back on the current imperium will be great for narrative building. 

[N1SB]

 

There is a reason why so many of the other primarchs and even the Emperor and Malcador thought than sooner or later he will turn renegade.

 

Where on earth are you getting some of your ideas?

 

 

That sentiment was definitely suggested in the Horus Heresy novels, believe it or not, with the aforementioned Imperium Secundus, when Roboute Guilliman had a whole back-up plan already prepared to set up his own version of the Imperium should it fall.  That seemed really, really suspicious to the always-suspecting Malcador.

 

To be fair, those same novels also proved Roboute Guilliman's loyalty when he yielded authority to Sanguinius and the Lion, demonstrating he never really wanted to usurp anyone's rule, but he just had a contingency just in case because that's the way he is.  Then Malcador still continued to suspect him, because that's how he is.

 

So I see both points, but what's interesting is how polarising these views are, even here in this thread.  In the Imperium, the divide will probably be greater.

 

And for those pointing out Guilliman is the famous administrator...that's the EXACT reason why the High Lords of Terra would worry about him, more than any other Primarch, just as Malcador once did.  Having read your posts, I actually find this way more interesting a potential arc.  I really hope GW does something with this.

[Demigod]

Guilliman splitting the Legions was not by choice. Anyone thinks otherwise is using their "Head Canon"

Spoiler tag for some info

Guilliman, the 11th Company

Lion - By Proxy the Unforgiven

Sanguinius - Blood Angels I am not sure with them - Given who ordered the split it could be The Angel seen this future and gave him this order.

Dorn - The Last Wall Protocol - By proxy the Black Templar

Russ - Not splitting in the first place - Why didnt Guilliman force his hand? He did with Dorn.

Corax - Not sure

Vulkan - Asked for it not to be enforced, again Guilliman didnt force his hand.

The Khan - Not sure

Ferrus - Not sure.

But you can bet your bottom dollar all Primarchs had a way around it... Even Guilliman.

And him turning Renegade? Really? Horus himself knew he would never turn hence using the Word Bearers to sucker punch them at Calth, even this they were used in turn for the slight at Monarchia.

As for the Lion, as its been proved once and for all he is Loyal, hell he was going to start a war on Macragge when he thought Imperium Secundus was a betrayal of the Emperor, Guilliman does not dislike the Lion he just didnt like the any means nesessary that the Lion will sometimes employ.

People are clutching to meme of the Lion being a traitor because Lolz...

Not one of the Loyalist Primarchs will like the way the Imperium is, Guilliman is the first of the Loyalist and its stated he is not impressed, Its safe to best the Lion, Dorn and the Rest are not going to like it much either, and lastly Guilliman never wanted to lead.

The Lion is 100% loyal to the Emperor and his dream, the Imperium and there is 0% chance he would go chaos because of the Watchers in the Dark. The Emperor is gone ,the Imperium is gone and the Lion most definitely does not like Guilliman. That is why I think he will go renegade. There will have to be a twist in the story ,either some primarch returns and dies immediately or goes renegade. I think it will be the second one and Lion is the only one with the motive and means.

I think you are confusing going renegade to going for Chaos. Yes Horus knew that Guilliman would not join him and the World Bearers wanted revenge but Guilliman was long suspected of empire building. Leman Russ sent a watch pack specifically to watch over him in the Unremembered Empire. I have not read that one was sent to keep an eye over any other primarch.

Where on earth are you getting some of your ideas?

Unremembered empire. As I stated above Leman Russ specifically sent a Wolf Pack to keep an eye on him. When the Lion is coming to Maccrage he is not certain whether his brother is still loyal. The Emperor and Malcador had a discusion where Malcador stated that he always suspected Guilliman of empire building and sedition ( although I am not sure from witch novel this was from ). He banished the Lion and broke his sword ( I am sure he will love him,especially when he sees him ruling on Terra ). His entire reasoning when asked why he has not declared him self Emperor was "I don't want people to get the wrong idea"

Desiring to rule does not make one a traitor.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

The Lion is 100% loyal to the Emperor and his dream, the Imperium and there is 0% chance he would go chaos because of the Watchers in the Dark. The Emperor is gone ,the Imperium is gone and the Lion most definitely does not like Guilliman. That is why I think he will go renegade.

I think you are confusing going renegade to going for Chaos. Yes Horus knew that Guilliman would not join him and the World Bearers wanted revenge but Guilliman was long suspected of empire building. Leman Russ sent a watch pack specifically to watch over him in the Unremembered Empire. I have not read that one was sent to keep an eye over any other primarch.

Ok which book was this? That states outright that the Lion does not like him.

Renegade in the Imperium is basically a Traitor ...

The "watch packs" were sent to other Legions. Blood Angels come to mind :)

Horus fanned damaged pride in the Word Bearers on an action ordered by the Emperor... Guilliman was not happy over Monarchia. As for the Empire Building, again source?

Like I said NONE of the Loyalist Primarchs would like the state of the Imperium now

[Scribe]

I'm going to have to read it to see really, its rampant speculation otherwise.

 

What kind of Rob are we getting? We dont know his mental state when he went away. We know he 'doesnt like some of what he sees' well what parts?

 

The Primarchs had a certain vision for the Imperium, the Emperor, another. Now, 10K years later? Its a mess.

 

I'm more interested in the metaphysical questions posed by the Eldar book, cant wait to read that one. :p

[Brother Captain Arkley]

 

 

Unremembered empire. As I stated above Leman Russ specifically sent a Wolf Pack to keep an eye on him. When the Lion is coming to Maccrage he is not certain whether his brother is still loyal. The Emperor and Malcador had a discusion where Malcador stated that he always suspected Guilliman of empire building and sedition ( although I am not sure from witch novel this was from ). He banished the Lion and broke his sword ( I am sure he will love him,especially when he sees him ruling on Terra ).

 

 

Yeah but Malcador ORDERED Russ to send the packs, why did he banish the Lion? The context means everything if someone did that to my world banishing them seems to be a small punishment. But I never read that they hate each other. 

[Lord Marshal]

Girlyman still never turn traitor just because the Ultramarines, even in this Ward-less state, are still the poster boys of the loyalist Space Marines. If any split/civil war/whatever occurs it won't be him and the Ultramarines that fall on the Not-Imperium side of things, even if it made more sense.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

Girlyman still never turn traitor just because the Ultramarines, even in this Ward-less state, are still the poster boys of the loyalist Space Marines. If any split/civil war/whatever occurs it won't be him and the Ultramarines that fall on the Not-Imperium side of things, even if it made more sense.

 

It is that hard to spell his name right? Can't we have one topic without the meme crap?

[Demigod]

The Lion is 100% loyal to the Emperor and his dream, the Imperium and there is 0% chance he would go chaos because of the Watchers in the Dark. The Emperor is gone ,the Imperium is gone and the Lion most definitely does not like Guilliman. That is why I think he will go renegade.

I think you are confusing going renegade to going for Chaos. Yes Horus knew that Guilliman would not join him and the World Bearers wanted revenge but Guilliman was long suspected of empire building. Leman Russ sent a watch pack specifically to watch over him in the Unremembered Empire. I have not read that one was sent to keep an eye over any other primarch.

Ok which book was this? That states outright that the Lion does not like him.

Renegade in the Imperium is basically a Traitor ...

The "watch packs" were sent to other Legions. Blood Angels come to mind

Horus fanned damaged pride in the Word Bearers on an action ordered by the Emperor... Guilliman was not happy over Monarchia. As for the Empire Building, again source?

Like I said NONE of the Loyalist Primarchs would like the state of the Imperium now

Sanguinius was not that far from becoming a chaos primarch him self. If Horus had not feared that Sanguinius would eclipse him in the eyes of the gods Sanguinius was already ready to sell his soul to remove the Red Thirst ( no different than Magnus).

Sanguinius then led his forces into the Chaos Fortress on Signus, the Cathedral of the Mark, where he was confronted by the Keeper of Secrets Kyriss the Perverse. Kyriss gave Sanguinius a choice: sacrifice himself to the Ragefire and have the Red Thirst forever lifted from his sons, or allow his Legion to face eventual destruction due to their genetic flaw. Deciding to sacrifice himself, Sanguinius was about to step into the Ragefire when he was beaten to it by Apothecary Meros, who was transformed into the Red Angel. Mourning Meros, Sanguinius slew Kyriss and swore vengeance on Horus.^[4]

That is also why he got a watch pack as well. Not to mention the obvious mutation both with primarch and legion. Sanguinius trick of looking divine maybe worked on lesser beings but not on such as the Emperor and Malcador.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I get this can be a contentious topic for many.

 

Please use the proper spelling of everybody's name, avoid inflammatory slang names and insults.

 

This is an interesting topic, let's keep it that way.

 

Wolf Lord Kieran

[Demigod]

 

 

 

Unremembered empire. As I stated above Leman Russ specifically sent a Wolf Pack to keep an eye on him. When the Lion is coming to Maccrage he is not certain whether his brother is still loyal. The Emperor and Malcador had a discusion where Malcador stated that he always suspected Guilliman of empire building and sedition ( although I am not sure from witch novel this was from ). He banished the Lion and broke his sword ( I am sure he will love him,especially when he sees him ruling on Terra ).

 

 

Yeah but Malcador ORDERED Russ to send the packs, why did he banish the Lion? The context means everything if someone did that to my world banishing them seems to be a small punishment. But I never read that they hate each other. 

 

 

Where did I ever say that the Lion hates Guilliman or the opposite I simply stated that they did not like each other. In Unremembered empire the first thing Guilliman said when seeing it was the Lion who had arrived first was "Why did it had to be him". He had sworn that he would proclaim Emperor the first primarch that would come to Maccrage and when the Lion came he backed out immediately.

 

 

 

 

Lion-Now here in my opinion comes the strongest candidate to go renegade. He never agreed to the legions disbanding and with the Unforgiven he would end up leading a Legion almost instantly. The Lion is a figure who rather commands respect, Typhus described him like being in the presence of a predator near him and also Azrael has tried to build a positive image for the DA lately so he could also call upon a lot of allies.  The Lion does not like Guilliman so when he comes to Terra and sees Guilliman ruling and preventing him to deal with institutions like the ecclesiarchy or the BT I expect things to go bad pretty fast. He is also is the only primarch except for Guilliam who has the resources to go against the Imperium and be relevant.

 

[Brother Captain Arkley]

OK dislike and Hate is a oversight, I will give you that...

 

I need to read the book again as I read it so different... 

 

But I get that feeling in all our discussion.

[Urriak Urruk]

I'm going to assume the below if the other loyalists don't show up (yet). I feel Guilliman is going to get a decent amount of time as the only returned loyalist Primarch, as they will probably release another traitor before the next loyalist.

 

From what I've read on the leaked White Dwarf, Guilliman was awakened because Macragge itself was besieged by Chaos (which I found odd, isn't Terra closer to the Eye than Macragge?) After Guilliman is awoken he quickly starts kicking Chaos out of Ultramar, and promises to Cypher he'll take him to Terra.

 

Now, from that and knowing Guilliman, I don't think there's going to be a civil war, at least as long as Guilliman's the only loyalist. Remember, he only made Imperium Secundus because he thought Terra was lost. Here it doesn't seem that way, and if Terra is just being besieged and Guilliman knows that, I think its more likely he'll make a simple dash to Terra.

 

Assuming he breaks the Black Crusade, Guilliman will certainly try to take at least temporary control of everything. In his eyes, the Imperium would be in complete crisis. He would be right, as even if Chaos hadn't broken through Cadia and Magnus returned to the materium, the xenos threats have been greater than they've ever been (chiefly the Tyranids).

 

So I think he would try and make himself dictator, as did Roman politicians if the Republic was under threat. The High Lords might resist, but if you look at how the Imperial government reacted to Vulkan returning in the Beast crisis, they couldn't resist considering the Space Marines were fairly united behind Vulkan. The Inquisition and Assassinorum were also united behind them (being the most sane parts of the government).

 

The only group I can visualize really splitting off is the Mechanicum, which always enjoyed a certain degree of autonomy. Everyone else though may view Guilliman as a returned messiah to save them from destruction.

 

The Ultramarines and Successors would readily bend the knee to Guilliman. The other Space Marines would certainly respect their Uncle's authority (though some would no doubt hold reservations).

 

Of course, if and when another Loyalist shows up, depending on who it is, can completely throw this out of wack. There is a difference between one demi-god showing up, and two with competing views on what to do.

[Triszin]

I'm going to assume the below if the other loyalists don't show up (yet). I feel Guilliman is going to get a decent amount of time as the only returned loyalist Primarch, as they will probably release another traitor before the next loyalist.

 

From what I've read on the leaked White Dwarf, Guilliman was awakened because Macragge itself was besieged by Chaos (which I found odd, isn't Terra closer to the Eye than Macragge?) After Guilliman is awoken he quickly starts kicking Chaos out of Ultramar, and promises to Cypher he'll take him to Terra.

 

Now, from that and knowing Guilliman, I don't think there's going to be a civil war, at least as long as Guilliman's the only loyalist. Remember, he only made Imperium Secundus because he thought Terra was lost. Here it doesn't seem that way, and if Terra is just being besieged and Guilliman knows that, I think its more likely he'll make a simple dash to Terra.

 

Assuming he breaks the Black Crusade, Guilliman will certainly try to take at least temporary control of everything. In his eyes, the Imperium would be in complete crisis. He would be right, as even if Chaos hadn't broken through Cadia and Magnus returned to the materium, the xenos threats have been greater than they've ever been (chiefly the Tyranids).

 

So I think he would try and make himself dictator, as did Roman politicians if the Republic was under threat. The High Lords might resist, but if you look at how the Imperial government reacted to Vulkan returning in the Beast crisis, they couldn't resist considering the Space Marines were fairly united behind Vulkan. The Inquisition and Assassinorum were also united behind them (being the most sane parts of the government).

 

The only group I can visualize really splitting off is the Mechanicum, which always enjoyed a certain degree of autonomy. Everyone else though may view Guilliman as a returned messiah to save them from destruction.

 

The Ultramarines and Successors would readily bend the knee to Guilliman. The other Space Marines would certainly respect their Uncle's authority (though some would no doubt hold reservations).

 

Of course, if and when another Loyalist shows up, depending on who it is, can completely throw this out of wack. There is a difference between one demi-god showing up, and two with competing views on what to do.

 

 

it was confirmed in the twitch stream yesterday that:

 

Guillimans awakening/Resurrection is done by: Celestine, Eldar, Ynead, and Cawl.

 

Cawl has also been working on a armor specifically for guilliman for 10K years, it has archeotech inside it, + a life support system for guilliman. I suspect the suit is actively working against the toxin/poison blade 

 

 

--------------

 

and the black crusade:

 

Is significantly larger than anyone had predicted, and they are attacking tons of imperial and xeno systems. 

 

a writer said that the fighting was so close on Maccrage that there were black legion inside the vary room that guilliman was in stasis, also implying he was still in stasis at the time. 

 

once guilliman wakes up he takes control of the imperial forces and through "brilliant tactical maneuvers" takes back the planet and breaks the seige of maccrage 

[Brother Captain Arkley]

See my issue is I can see a Primarchs and the Emperors vision vs the Imperium and the HLoT...

 

But this battle royal that x Primarch is automatically going to go rogue or renegade seems silly. 

 

Lion going renegade dumps on all the sacrifices the DA have made in 10k years that's why I don't like the idea of this happening.

 

I can't see why Guilliman would not work with the rest of his brothers to restore the Imperium, Especially Dorn, Lion, Russ and Vulkan. 

[Triszin]

well, from the Rumors, IF russ is actually a WUlfen now, I could see loyal primarchs refusing to work with him. 

[Scribe]

Its tough, because the 'history' is not set yet. We dont know their states of mind at the end of the HH. Maybe there is reason for them to come to blows? To pick sides? Maybe Khan comes riding out of the Webway, pulls a wheelie, and says 'Scars, :cuss this lets go!' and starts ripping up the edges of the Universe?

 

Maybe Lion comes back, looks at all the bull his son's have pulled over 10K years of shame, and flips out?

 

Maybe Rob, in his review of the history of the Imperium, puts 1 and 1 and 1 (to infinity) together and sees that the DA are not QUITE as loyal as some may think? Maybe he see's that the Blood Angels are 1 step from damnation and that the Wolves, well who knows how they are meant to be right now, I think GW thinks they lost more than they did, or didnt communicate Wrath of Magnus well.

 

Point is, we dont know yet enough imo to say what's even happened, let alone extrapolate that forward.

 

To me? It makes more sense to the setting as it stands in theme and tenor TODAY, to have the Primarchs at odds.