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Blood Angels & Skyhammer 1850 tournament list

Blood Angels 1850 Tournament

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24 replies to this topic

#1
Jolemai

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First off, I'm not going to a tournament. However, a friend of mine is and will be taking Harlequins, so I've offered to give him a practice game using the tournament rules (which can be found here). I plan on going in hard but I'd rather take what I think is an all comers list as opposed to tailoring to beat Harlequins (for what it's worth, I don't know the meta for the tournament). I did some searching and found a list Morticon used/considered a while ago and it's one I can do with only minor proxying on the grav cannons (which I have permission for).

 

Combined Arms Detachment

 

HQ.gif

Chaplain

~ Auspex

~ Veritas Vitae

~ Warlord

 

Librarian Dreadnought

~ Melta gun

~ ML 1

~ Sanguinary

 

Troops.gif

Scout Squad (5)

~ Sniper rifle (5)

 

Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

 

Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~~ Storm bolter

 

HS.gif

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank

~ Hunter-killer missile

 

Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

~ Legacy of Glory: Battle of Keylek

 

Stormraven Gunship

~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~ Twin-linked multi-melta

~ Extra armour

 

Skyhammer Annihilation Force

~ Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines

 

Assault Squad (5)

~ Jump packs

~ Power maul

 

Assault Squad (5)

~ Jump packs

Power maul

 

Devastator Squad (10)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (2)

~ Multi-melta (2)

~ Drop Pod

 

Devastator Squad (5)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (3)

~ Drop Pod

 

Chaplain rides with the small Devastator Squad to make use of Auspex. Devastator Doctrines on landing, Next turn, Tactical/Assault Doctrines, following turn Assault/TacticalDoctrines. Scouts are backfield campers, Tacticals hide until needed, etc.

 

A bit unsure on the Librarian's powers but I suppose Sanguinary is best...Any advice on fighting Harlequins? The list I'll be facing is something along the lines of:

  • 36 players

  • Solitaire

  • 3 Death Jesters

  • 3 Shadowseers

  • 6 Skyweavers

  • 1 Voidweaver

 


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#2
Xenith

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I think you're going to murder him.

 

Full Cegorach's revenge is a decent amount of points (I forget how much) so his upgrades might be a little thin. That said, expect any unit they contact to evaporate.

 

Harlies really rely on the charge, and you take that away with the skyhammer. Those heavy flamers will hurt also. 

 

I0d assume he'll be rolling on seer on sanctic to try and get +1 invun, which combines with the rerolling 1's from the formation - the Solitaire with eternal warrior and native 3++ rerolling 1's is tough, but dies to enough small arms fire. I'd ignore him to focus on their troops.

 

Harlies have nothing to counter aircraft. It's invincible unless you hover. 


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#3
Jolemai

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So, too hard then? I promised I'd take a Skyhammer as no one in out group has used one yet and I'd expect it to feature quite heavily (so to get some experience playing against it)...


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#4
Charlo

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So, too hard then? I promised I'd take a Skyhammer as no one in out group has used one yet and I'd expect it to feature quite heavily (so to get some experience playing against it)...

 

I think in a tournament setting, it's not too hard at all and someone who loves BA but wants some vanilla hitting power/ flexibility (like Mort) would use this, unless they wanted to go gimmicky with Triple Raven Deep Strike, or perhaps the OIF.

 

Mono Harlequins are also notoriously... Underpowered to say the least. It's not that they are bad, they are just SO SO fragile and a wrong move means that unit is fully lost. For example, I had a squad of them charge my meltacide - the Harlies actually lost combat as my 3+ just denied them too many wound. I then counter charged and that S5 ate them alive.

 

Do Harlies have a 4+ base? So that is what Grav will wound on?



#5
Xenith

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Do Harlies have a 4+ base? So that is what Grav will wound on?

 

 

No, harlies have no armour save so grav is useless against them (apart from the vehicles).

 

I guess they screw with the meta in that way, however T3 5++ is countered by everything.

 

Harlies really need everything to go right in the game for them - and when it does, they can dish out a world of hurt. Taking the initiative away from them with drop pods etc will hurt them. That said, charging them might see small marine units die due to I6.

 

If your opponent is doing it right, they'll be using some of the units from Death Masque which can fit into normal formations etc. Expect a death jester that grants shrouding, rerolling jink saves, running and shooting. 


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#6
Indefragable

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Harlequins have a surprisingly large presence in my club....and they tend to clean up! 

 

Flamers are your friends against them.

 

Shoot the stabby ones....and harlies are very stabby

 

Look out for lots of mind-altering shenanigans, both as buffs for them and as weapons against you. Buffs include a power (can't think of the name...veil something) that reduces the range you can shoot at them by like 4D6" or something like that. Basically, it helps them run up into your face. There are also different combos the harliequin players at my club use, where they stack all sorts of Leadership debuffs (I think my combo-ing Craftword, Harly, and Dark Eldar abilities) and then unleashing Psychic Shriek to absolutely devastating effect. 

 

Harlies tend to be very good at taking on your characters and usual melee dudes, but can be drowned in bodies. Unfortunately BA/SM don't have the quantity of bodies to do so. 

 

So from a BA perspective, they are one of the few forces where I advise against Charging them unless you know you can kill them (they're down to 1W or so and you have 10+ bodies in your unit) and rather focus on burning them as much as possible. 


Call me Indy. It's less syllables.

 

 

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#7
Jolemai

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Thanks for the initial advice folks :tu: looks like I've got some more reading to do.

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#8
Flieger

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Thanks for some food for thought, I also work on Skyhammer based list. The difference is that my BA part is more heavily focused around drop assault.
Btw, are you sure that Chaplain can ride together with Skyhammer Devs? Can you really use your battle brothers' transport?

Edited by Flieger, 08 February 2017 - 11:12 AM.

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#9
The Unseen

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I don't see the libby dread getting to do much without a lucius pod, so I'd either find points for that, or drop him and fill out the assault squads on skyhammer.
Combat squading go tie up 4 units is really really strong

"For the Emperor and Sanguinius! Death! DEATH!"

 

 


#10
Jolemai

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Thanks for some food for thought, I also work on Skyhammer based list. The difference is that my BA part is more heavily focused around drop assault.
Btw, are you sure that Chaplain can ride together with Skyhammer Devs? Can you really use your battle brothers' transport?


Oops, you're completely right there. Will have a re- think.

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#11
Jolemai

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I don't see the libby dread getting to do much without a lucius pod, so I'd either find points for that, or drop him and fill out the assault squads on skyhammer.
Combat squading go tie up 4 units is really really strong


I expect a T3-4 charge with him and all being well, he should have no problem getting his powers off at that point, but I do understand what you mean. Of course, the trouble with going full RAS contradicts the earlier advice about charging Harlequins...
I also don't have a third Pod in my collection :(

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#12
Jolemai

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Also, we've decided to do game 2.

Eternal War Mission: Eternal War: Crusade - 4 Objectives (3 Victory Points each).
Maelstrom of War Mission: Cleanse & Control.
Deployment: Vanguard Strike.


That alone is going to be interesting. So that's reading up on Harlequins and those missions (haven't done an EW in years)

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#13
Xenith

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Harlequins have a surprisingly large presence in my club....and they tend to clean up! 

 

Flamers are your friends against them.

 

Shoot the stabby ones....and harlies are very stabby

 

Look out for lots of mind-altering shenanigans, both as buffs for them and as weapons against you. Buffs include a power (can't think of the name...veil something) that reduces the range you can shoot at them by like 4D6" or something like that. Basically, it helps them run up into your face. There are also different combos the harliequin players at my club use, where they stack all sorts of Leadership debuffs (I think my combo-ing Craftword, Harly, and Dark Eldar abilities) and then unleashing Psychic Shriek to absolutely devastating effect. 

 

Harlies tend to be very good at taking on your characters and usual melee dudes, but can be drowned in bodies. Unfortunately BA/SM don't have the quantity of bodies to do so. 

 

On this, veil of tears functions like is used to, if they get the power off, you cannot shoot at them outside 2d6 inches. However  drop pods and skyhammer bypasses this. 

 

Relic item causes -2 LD within 12", but has to be on a squishy shadowseer. Mirror of minds is a psy power that will kill one of your characters with ease, if they can debuff their LD.


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#14
Jolemai

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On reflection, I think I'll keep the Librarian Dreadnought despite the risks involved (which includes time running out before I use it!). However, the Chaplain is a different concern...

I've dropped his auspex and gave the three grav cannon squad a cherub, but I've still got no idea where to put a Chaplain or if a different choice would be better. The Veritas is one of the most important choices for a competitive list IMO so that's not going.

Scorpius will target on bike squad, the three grav cannons will go for the other. Will attempt to knock out the Voidweaver with the other Dev squad. Vanilla RAS to hold any survivers? Hmm.

Or am I being overly cautious about the bikes?

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#15
Xenith

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No, the skyweaver bikes are probably the best unit in the harlequin army. S5 AP2 3A on the charge, with hit and run.


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#16
Jolemai

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Right, if I ditch the Librarian Dreadnought and the hunter-killer missile from the Sicaran, I can field two ten man RAS meaning I can potentially charge four targets - however, there's no additional upgrades.

1) Can I get a second opinion that either agrees or disagrees with The Unseen that this is better in general
2) That this is better against Harlequins

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#17
Jolemai

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Right, ditching the hunter-killer missile, Librarian Dreadnought and extra armour to afford a squad of Scouts to ride in the Stormraven, camo cloaks on the sniper squad, and to boost one of the RAS to ten and adding in an Eviscerator.

Thoughts?

(Will type if up later if needed...)

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#18
The Unseen

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I like the changes minus the eviscerator.
While it did get better with the absolutely terrible grenade ruling, it's still 25 pts for 1 base attack, 2 on the charge, bleh.
And against harlequins, unless he brings a revanent titan (and if he does, dreads sock the dirty xenon cheat), I don't think they have any vehicle that isn't av10 rear, so your regular attacks and the power mauls should be plenty.

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#19
Jolemai

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To be honest, I'm trying to avoid list tailoring against Harlequins, hence the Eviscerator. I am tempted to take flamers on the big squad instead which will leave me some more points to give upgrades elsewhere...

Anyway, the game is set for this Friday.

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#20
Jolemai

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Latest version:
 
 


Combined Arms Detachment

 

HQ.gif

Chaplain

~ Veritas Vitae

~ Warlord

 

Troops.gif

Scout Squad (5)

~ Camo cloaks

~ Sniper rifle (5)

 

Scout Squad (5)

~ Shotgun (1)

~ Bolt pistol (4)

~ Combi-flamer

 

Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

 

Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~~ Storm bolter

 

HS.gif

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank

 

 

Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

~ Legacy of Glory: Battle of Keylek

 

Stormraven Gunship

~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~ Twin-linked multi-melta

 

 

Skyhammer Annihilation Force

~ Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines

 

Assault Squad (5)

~ Jump packs

~ Flamer

~ Power maul

 

Assault Squad (10)

~ Jump packs

~ Flamer (2)

~ Power maul

 

Devastator Squad (10)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (2)

~ Multi-melta (2)

~ Drop Pod

 

Devastator Squad (5)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (3)

~ Armorium cherub

~ Drop Pod

 


Drop the flamers for heavy bolter sponsons on the Sicaran? Other than that, I could field a (counts-as) Imperial Space Marine in one of the Devastator Squads for a laugh...


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#21
Jolemai

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Oh,and the lack of psychic defense is a concern...

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#22
Jolemai

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Not all the Harlequins are built so there will be some Craftworld about. Grav cannon any Wraith Knights, assault any Farseers on the drop, etc?

This battle has suddenly become much harder.

gallery_62972_14467_5178.jpggallery_62972_14467_1351.jpggallery_48988_15094_4929.pnggallery_62972_14467_2702.jpggallery_48988_15094_2403.pnggallery_62972_14467_4151.jpggallery_62972_14467_3390.jpg

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#23
The Unseen

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Nothing you can really do about the psychic stuff if you play mono ba.
A culexus assasin or allied libby conclave are about it.

If you have the shots to kill the wraithknight in 1 turn or close to, do it.
But if it's a choice between a half dead wraithknight and a bunch of scat packs or other fragile but really hard hitting units being dead and the wraithknight being full health, go with killing the other stuff.

Smart elder players will use the knight as bait, trusting that you'll either not manage to kill it, or you'll over commit to it and let the rest of his army tear you apart.

If a seer council has a lot of defensive buffs off, literally ignore it, you can't kill it, so don't bother.
Hunt down everything else and score points.
If they split it up, kill the farseers without mercy.

If your opponent is good, again with that phrase, he'll bubble wrap any psychic guys.
If you go first and he doesn't protect them, absolutely go for them turn 1 with the assaults, farseers aren't that good in combat

Edit: some quick math for you, it takes on average 27 grav shots that hit to kill a Wraithknight. (To hit chances with ultra will depend on doctrines, so I didn't include them)
2/3 wound, 2/3 get through 5++, 2/3 get through the fnp, for a total chance of .3 wounds per hit.
If it's not got the shield or a cover save, it's significantly easier to kill.

Apologize if I'm posting a bit to much, but my main opponent for past year or so has been set council eldar.

Edited by The Unseen, 22 February 2017 - 03:03 AM.

"For the Emperor and Sanguinius! Death! DEATH!"

 

 


#24
Jolemai

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No problem at all, glad to receive the advice :)

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#25
Jolemai

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Latest version:
 
 

Combined Arms Detachment


HQ.gif

Chaplain

~ Veritas Vitae

~ Warlord


Troops.gif

Scout Squad (5)

~ Camo cloaks

~ Sniper rifle (5)


Scout Squad (5)

~ Shotgun (1)

~ Bolt pistol (4)

~ Combi-flamer


Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun


Tactical Squad (5)

~ Heavy flamer (1)

~ Razorback

~~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~~ Storm bolter


HS.gif

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank



Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

~ Legacy of Glory: Battle of Keylek


Stormraven Gunship

~ Twin-linked assault cannon

~ Twin-linked multi-melta



Skyhammer Annihilation Force

~ Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines


Assault Squad (5)

~ Jump packs

~ Flamer

~ Power maul


Assault Squad (10)

~ Jump packs

~ Flamer (2)

~ Power maul


Devastator Squad (10)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (2)

~ Multi-melta (2)

~ Drop Pod


Devastator Squad (5)

~ Grav cannon & grav amp (3)

~ Armorium cherub

~ Drop Pod



Drop the flamers for heavy bolter sponsons on the Sicaran? Other than that, I could field a (counts-as) Imperial Space Marine in one of the Devastator Squads for a laugh...


In case anyone was wondering, a report for the game is now live.

gallery_62972_14467_5178.jpggallery_62972_14467_1351.jpggallery_48988_15094_4929.pnggallery_62972_14467_2702.jpggallery_48988_15094_2403.pnggallery_62972_14467_4151.jpggallery_62972_14467_3390.jpg

Blogs Blood Angels | Veritas Vitae | Battle Reports | Terrain | IXth Legion | Miscellaneous Imperials
1000 Scout list W:1 D:0 L:4
1250 Death Company List (jump) W:0 D:0 L:4
1500 Light Mech List W:0 D:0 L:1 Dreadnought List W:1 D:0 L:1
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Apocalypse W:1 D:0 L:0 | Heresy 2500 Mechanised IXth W:2 D:1 L:0