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Astartes at Cadia


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#26
Race Bannon

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Numbers matter not when

 

FAITH IN THE EMPEROR

 

is on your side.

 

I'm not paid to say that, I'm just a fan.


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"Fully dressed in the ancestral Terminator Armour of their Chapter they rise to a new level of battlefield supremacy, a level where monstrous tanks are but playthings of a child, and where Terminators, Daemons and gods stalk as equals." -Thunder and Lightning, White Dwarf 116 (UK)
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Index Astartes: Red Shoulders


#27
Deus Ex Ferrum

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FAITH IN THE EMPEROR OMNISSIAH

 

 

 

Someone tampered with your post, Race. 


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Disclaimer: As far as I'm concerned, post-Heresy fluff for the Iron Hands begins with Index Astartes III: Hand of Justice and ends with Space Marine Battles: Wrath of Iron. Whoever wrote the Raukaan supplement can die in a fire.


#28
Skalpynock

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Both spellings of His name are acceptable since the Olympus Decree..
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Legio IX: the Warbringers Proto-Legio IX: the Steel Guard

Legio IV: the Void Eagles Proto-Legio IV: the Morning Stars

 


#29
Vodunius

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Chaos is throwing all of the eggs it has in one basket at breaking the Cadian Gate, whilst the Imperium's forces are still spread out across the entire galaxy.

 

Whilst there's a lot of chapters present, they only number around a thousand each - at most - and even then, they're only sending companies worth of that number. Opposing them is the entirety of the Black Legion and probably the vast majority of the Traitor Legions. Throw into that millions of Traitor Guard/Cultists/Mutants and on top of that, a nigh-infinite amount of daemons being spawned and more arriving with every bit of ground taken. 

 

 

I know all that.

It's just that when you realize that you are counting roughly 800 Imperial Guard regiments...

And at least 196 Space Marine companies wtih 21 Battle Barges & 150 Strike Cruisers...

Also 3,5 Titan Legions (some psi-titans also appeared) and an irrelevant number of Knight Households and Skitarii regiments...

And finally at least 24 Battleships with 34 Cruiser squadrons...

 

I 'm only counting the biggest of military assets here. We know GW never get the scale right, but this...

 

 

Cadia didn't exist in isolation, it was the forward bastion of a long supply chain. Without prescient knowledge of the traitors exact dispositions, locations and intent the loyalist forces were spread across dozens of star systems defending vital links in the chain. Howling Griffons, Iron Knights and Doom Eagles in the Agripinaa Sector for instance. The traitors, being unburdened by such defensive necessities could bring greater numbers to bear on targeted worlds/forces. 


Edited by Vodunius, 26 February 2017 - 02:19 AM.

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i hate to break it to you chaps, but according to the English Language a Chevron is a V shape, if your 'Chevrons' are not V shaped then they are just hazard stripes NOT Chevrons

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#30
Brother Clavero

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  In regards to the numbers of Black Legion (and other original legions), I've always fancied that Fabius Bile and other rogue apothecaries  were out there cranking out replacements for the legions. I do remember reading in several places that alluded to new generations(?) of chaos marines being made. If this is the case, then that would explain not only the large numbers of legion chaos marines present at Cadia but their seemingly endless supply of them in general.   


And if 'heresy' lies in considering their atrophied carrion-god detestable then yes, I suppose I qualify there also.

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#31
Tyberos the Red Wake

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I'm not paid to say that, I'm just a fan.

 

Duty is its own reward.


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"Grey-clad, they came from the outer night to aid the Imperium, and their jagged maw did swallow the stars, and their black gaze did mirror the void of oblivion."

- The Canticle of Cassandria Lev - Vol.CVI [Circa M37]


#32
SlaveToDarkness

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In regards to the numbers of Black Legion (and other original legions), I've always fancied that Fabius Bile and other rogue apothecaries were out there cranking out replacements for the legions. I do remember reading in several places that alluded to new generations(?) of chaos marines being made. If this is the case, then that would explain not only the large numbers of legion chaos marines present at Cadia but their seemingly endless supply of them in general.


Also dont forget Chaos made off with a load of geneseed in Storm of Iron.

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#33
Volt

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Remind me again why one of those numerous, numerous strike cruisers didn't fire a single stray shot that would have completely vaporized both Abaddon and his entire upper echelon of Black Legion HQ with minimal damage to the ecosystem? All it would take is one second to fire a lance battery and they would have saved Cadia, crippled Chaos by slaying another Warmaster, and annihilated a bunch of Chaos Space Marines at minimal to no cost to their own men (or the planet for that matter, a couple gigatons is chump change to a planet's durability).

 

It just seems so ridiculous how there was this mass scramble to try to save Cadia (which obviously failed), yet nobody just asked any ship, even a Cobra, to fire a single blast that would have turned the great enemy into a paint smear. There's at least several hundred space marine ships in the system during the final battle given the numbers (entire chapters even), not counting Imperial Navy assets for that matter.


+Quod vult valde valt+


#34
Deus Ex Ferrum

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I *could* delve into some of the physics of why orbital bombardment would be horrendously inaccurate, especially under combat conditions, if you'd like.


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Disclaimer: As far as I'm concerned, post-Heresy fluff for the Iron Hands begins with Index Astartes III: Hand of Justice and ends with Space Marine Battles: Wrath of Iron. Whoever wrote the Raukaan supplement can die in a fire.


#35
Captain_Krash

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Physics don't exist in 40k. Especially earth known physics this is an entire different planet from what we know "fluff" wise. Also, if they can bring people back from the dead (Primarchs) I'm 100% sure they can accurately shoot a paper clip on a mouse from space in the 40k universe (sarcasm intended) Would have just worked like orbital bombardments from 3rd edition rules-wise. (Always scatter 2d6) And yes Volt you have a point. "Sense" was thrown out the window in favor of Deus Ex Machinma. IMO it was an exciting to read story but didn't make much sense, basically what they were saying is that the entire fleet was destroyed and Abaddon just flew in and began his assault.

 

Krash


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#36
Race Bannon

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No need to get into realism here.  Besides, even if we wanted to, it's been widely accepted that carpet-bombing is ineffective and that's within the atmosphere!


"Fully dressed in the ancestral Terminator Armour of their Chapter they rise to a new level of battlefield supremacy, a level where monstrous tanks are but playthings of a child, and where Terminators, Daemons and gods stalk as equals." -Thunder and Lightning, White Dwarf 116 (UK)
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Index Astartes: Red Shoulders


#37
Xisor

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Also, there'd be the case of Traitor air/orbital cover- in the BFG lore (rather than rules), there's heavy emphasis on the vast majority of an 'engagement' actually being a long-winded maneuvering game of cat and mouse. In theory a ship has the ability to obliterate a city... but other ships have the ability to obliterate the ship.

The tactic of 'assassinate Abaddon' is fairly sound, but also fairly obvious - to what lengths would one go to to ensure that it's not a trap intended to lure out elite strike teams or whittle down resources?

---

Of course, I'd prefer to *see* more of that in the lore, especially for the Gathering Storm. A lot more move and countermove, a lot less "and then the seventh incredible thing happened, and no-one had yet had breakfast!"

Edited by Xisor, 20 March 2017 - 01:25 PM.


#38
SickSix

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Well unless I read the book wrong the Loyalists never had orbital superiority.

The Phalanx made its one suicidal run and then barely escaped to the pole.

And besides, why would they snuff Abbadon in such an impersonal way? Their is nothing epic about that. Could you imagine the outrage of CSM players?

And if orbital strikes were so easy and accurate why even make plaentfall?




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