Death guard and painting help

[Herald of Magnus]

Hi there,

 

I'm really struggling with painting my death guard. I've read through multiple guides that say to start with rakath flesh, then seraphim sepia wash and then highlight or dry brush white over that.

 

I've read ones that say to undercoat white then a watered down sepia wash then dry brush white again...

 

I've tried loads but I can't seem to make the armour look good? Can anyone offer some advice on anything here or help me out please I beg of you. I'm a bad painter and I'm really not sure of where I'm going wrong even following them guides but they aren't always so clear or the like..

[Grotsmasha]

If you can put up a picture or two of your results, it will help us to give more accurate advice. Actually, head over to WarhammerTV on YouTube, they cover painting Death Guard (from your paint description I'm assuming it's Heresy DG you're painting).

 

Cheers,

Jono

[KurganFr]

I spent a lot of time pondering painting for my 30K Death Guard, and have finally gone with the following:

1. Undercoat Corax White spray

2. Basecoat Screaming Skull

3. Wash Agrax Earthshade

4. Layer Screaming Skull

5. Edge Highlight Pallid Wych Flesh

 

For the metal, I do:

1. Basecoat Ironbreaker (or is it Leadbelcher? the darker one of the two anyway)

2. Wash Agrax Earthshade

3. Wash Nuln Oil

4. Edge Highlight Ironbreaker (or is it Leadbelcher? the lighter one of the two anyway)

[Herald of Magnus]

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

 

Grotsmasha I'll post some pics up after work later. There isn't much that I've got in the way of pictures but I've got two that were in progress that I will put a stage by stage of my :cuss ups for. Also that warhammer TV link seems a good scheme though with how bad I am at painting should I go with a scheme that requires so much in the way of highlights etc?

 

Kurganfr I'd love to try out this scheme but I've got all of the paints there bar screaming skull. Is there a good alternative?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

You might also put a pic or two of what you're wanting? What looks good to you might not be good in the mind of the people offering advice. Example: I'm not a huge fan of the extremely weathered DG, but some folks absolutely love it and think it is as integral to the look of the DG as the white paint.

[Dosjetka]

Good suggestion by BCK. It would be useful to have a picture of what end result you're aiming for. As I'm sure you know, for any paint scheme there is a variety of ways to apply the paints. Narrowing things down will help both yourself and us. :tu:

[misterkho]

my recipe  (based on the old forge world tutorial) :

basecoat white

pretty heavy wash with seraphim sepia.

dry brush with pallid which flesh to smoothen out the wash.

highlight with white scar.

To tie everything up i use a small piece of sponge to add some rusting effect with rhinox hide and leadbeacher.

And lastly...water down some ryza rust and ad some drops around some rivets.

After al that is done do the basing and powders and you're good to go.

[Herald of Magnus]

http://www.agisn.de/HH_DG_Test_1.jpg

 

This is the kind of scheme I'm looking for. Though like I said the WIP models I've got so far have copied the forgeworld scheme etc and don't seem to be working. Though I've not done any highlights yet (bit nervous to do so) but the armour seems quite off.

 

Misterkho that's the scheme I followed so far. I've not gone past dry brushing the pallid Wych flesh so basically I haven't highlighted it yet but it still looks a bit odd. The original guide I read with that scheme said to heavily drybrush the Wych flesh so I tried that but I think I ended up doing it way too heavy. Will adding the white highlight and the rust really bring it together? :S

 

 

Edit: that pic I posted I really like but I do like the more boney colour of Wych flesh as a Base it's quite nice?

[Major_Gilbear]

I assume that since you've linked to his picture, you've also read Agis' tutorial on how he paints them? Link here, scroll to the bottom.

 

Another classic military modeller's technique that might suit you is actually based less on painting, and more on cleaning! Simply put:

 

1) Prime white with a good automotive primer. Keep it thin and smooth.

 

2) Basecoat with a light ivory of your choice. Two or three runny-thin coats, applied so that they don't pool. It's important to get a nice even colour, and no lumps or rough bits.

 

3) Gloss varnish the model. Let this dry somewhere warm for at least 24hrs.

 

4) Wash the whole model with a little bit of brown artist's oil paint thinned with some white spirit. Let this dry for a few hours.

 

5) Using a small soft sponge (the sort ladies use for makeup, like this one, are excellent for this) and some white spirit, carefully wipe off the brown paint, leaving it in the recesses. You'll also get a little bit of faint streaking, which looks fine and adds further character. Leave the model to dry (this may take over a day, so plan accordingly).

 

6) Seal the model with a decent matte varnish, and set aside to dry. You can can then finish any other details as you'd like, and re-seal at the end.

 

You can also apply some of the colours like the green and gold before the brown wash if you want to weather them all together, and likewise, applying any transfers before you varnish and weather will help them blend right in.

 

You can also add further chips and scuffs as you wish, but I find a mucky ivory is a good compromise for the DG; their classic MkIII armour is pretty busy with trim and rivets, and so adding too much weathering and scuffing tends to drown out the model very quickly IMO.

 

The main benefit of applying and then wiping off the weathering is that it's fast - you don't need to go back and re-paint or re-highlight anything. Similarly, the weathering not only shades all the recesses, but also provides some nice streaks and grime effects. For what is otherwise a difficult colour to paint (i.e., essentially a warm white), this is an even greater boon!

 

Finally, I might suggest checking out some painting tutorials fro Death Guard on YouTube. As well as the official GW painting tutorial on their channel (WarhammerTV), there are lots by other painters who have posted all sorts of tutorials up of their own efforts. Seeing somebody actually paint the models instead of just viewing still photos can be extremely helpful in understanding what you're trying to do, and will assist you greatly in terms of gauging paint thickness, application, technique, etc.

 

 

Edit: links fixed

[Herald of Magnus]

Wow thanks for the detailed response Major! I'd not actually seen that tutorial. My only issue with that tutorial and the guide you offered is that I recently went and bought a range of gw paint for my death guard so the idea of going out and buying more (after spending gw prices) isn't the most appealing!

 

However the guide you put there is really interesting and I'd love to try it. I saw warhammer TV at the start of this thread and like their scheme indeed only issue is highlighting isn't going to be so easy for me but I have to try!

 

I'm really not a good painter and it's starting to show again which is depressing :(

[Dosjetka]

I'm really not a good painter and it's starting to show again which is depressing

The only way you can improve is by painting, painting, painting, and (you guessed it) painting. It's not for nothing that there's a common adage that says "practice makes perfect". :tu:

You will inevitably be disappointed by your first models but as you paint more of them you'll feel more comfortable with the recipe you use, the paints you apply, how you apply them, how to hold your brush, etc. You'll figure out what works, what doesn't, and then modify your recipe and/or habits accordingly. It's all part of the process and everyone who's committed to painting goes through it so don't feel too bad about the whole situation. Unlike a lot of other depressing things in life, this is something you can actually change and improve! :)

[Herald of Magnus]

Thanks for the kind words man! It's just frustrating cause Death Guard don't seem like they should be hard to paint. I mean one of the schemes is to literally put wash on then drybrush over it - yet I still can't make it look decent aha...

 

The models I've got to some level need highlighting then some rust effects.. I'm hoping they look ok after that..

[Major_Gilbear]

Wow thanks for the detailed response Major! I'd not actually seen that tutorial. My only issue with that tutorial and the guide you offered is that I recently went and bought a range of gw paint for my death guard so the idea of going out and buying more (after spending gw prices) isn't the most appealing!

 

I totally understand about buying more stuff!

 

Helpfully, a bit of artist's paint and some white spirit are dirt cheap, and you can still use all the paints you've bought for the other colours anyway. I mean, regardless of what the GW names are, you probably bought an ivory, a white, a black, an olive green, some gold and silver, etc, right? And the brown washes (again, whatever they are called) are still useful for the metals and for the bases, even if you don't use them much or at all for the main model areas. ;)

 

With regard to getting better at painting... Well, I'm going to be controversial here: quick techniques like wash-and-drybrush don't really teach you how to paint, and so you will be unlikely to improve much if you only use those techniques.

 

The reason for this is that best results to be had from washing and drybrushing still require good brush control and understanding of what you're doing, which ironically means you still should learn to paint in the more "traditional" way of layers and highlights first.

 

The good news is that as long as you take your time and have some patience (and persistence!), then you  will  get better and you will get good-looking results. And, the more you paint, the faster you will get as your confidence and understanding grows. :)

[Herald of Magnus]

Thanks again Major, so basically I could use a mix of what I've bought from GW with the stuff you suggested so:

 

1) Prime with a good automotive primer. Keep it thin and smooth. (I already have GW white spray for now, I know the automotive primer is cheaper so I'll go for that when I run out?)

 

2) Basecoat with a light ivory of your choice. Two or three runny-thin coats, applied so that they don't pool. It's important to get a nice even colour, and no lumps or rough bits. (For the ivory can I use Pallid Wych Flesh by GW? It's kind of the ivory-ish colour?)

 

3) Gloss varnish the model. Let this dry somewhere warm for at least 24 hours. (I'm unsure of best gloss varnish to get sorry, is there like an acrylic one I should look out for? sorry as I said I'm not very good at this and not very knowledgeable sorry. Also why do you gloss it now only to put the matte on it later?)

 

4) Wash the whole model with a little bit of brown artist's oil paint thinned with some white spirit. Let this dry for a few hours. (Can you use a GW wash watered down here? Like Seraphim sepia or Agrax earthshade which is quite dark?)

 

5) Using a small soft sponge (the sort ladies use for makeup, like this one, are excellent for this) and some white spirit, carefully wipe off the brown paint, leaving it in the recesses. You'll also get a little bit of faint streaking, which looks fine and adds further character. Leave the model to dry (this may take over a day, so plan accordingly). (This all makes sense to me)

 

6) Seal the model with a decent matte varnish, and set aside to dry. You can then finish any other details as you'd like and re-seal at the end. (See above about the matte varnish after glossing it confusion)

 

 

I'm really sorry to spam you with questions Major, you've been a massive help so far so thank you. I'm really interested in trying this out! :)

 

 

[misterkho]

Thanks for the kind words man! It's just frustrating cause Death Guard don't seem like they should be hard to paint. I mean one of the schemes is to literally put wash on then drybrush over it - yet I still can't make it look decent aha...

 

The models I've got to some level need highlighting then some rust effects.. I'm hoping they look ok after that..

 

In my opinion Deathguard are easily one the hardest to paint, getting your wash right is just plain hard. 

I can give you one important advice for getting the washes and dry bushes right...take your time and in stead of one big heavy layer use several lighter one.

 

My first attempts with the seraphim sepia were horrible..i literally covered the entire model in sepia..and then you need way too much layers to cover that up again.

I'll try to post some pics tonight or tomorrow to show you my deathguard;)

[Herald of Magnus]

I think I'm washing too heavily and drybrush too heavily too. I'm not sure though as there's no decent WIP pics of this process. Do you by any chance have any I can look at and see? Do you apply the wash to just the recesses?

 

How important is the white scar highlight? I'm not good at highlighting but I'm unsure of what else I can do aha..

 

Thanks though man!

[misterkho]

Now i only apple the wash to the recesses and around the rivets..that's all you need. you could even thin down your washes to be on the safe side.

 

Regarding the dry brushes, i brush all the excessive paint on my hand. once there's barely any paint coming of the brush i start to dry brush my model.

 

And regarding the highlight..just pick some parts which are really important..

Keep in mind that you're going to "dirty up" your model once alle paint is on it so you don't have to worry to much about details later on.

[Major_Gilbear]

Thanks again Major, so basically I could use a mix of what I've bought from GW with the stuff you suggested so:

You can mix and match all brands of acrylic inks and paints just fine.

For acrylic paints specifically though, I would suggest sticking with acrylic paints formulated for miniatures (regardless of brand) as they have much finer and more concentrated pigments in them (which is partly why they tend to be more expensive - what type, how much, and how fine the pigment is in a paint is a significant cost element in paint manufacture).

1) Prime with a good automotive primer. Keep it thin and smooth. (I already have GW white spray for now, I know the automotive primer is cheaper so I'll go for that when I run out?)

It is cheaper, and automotive spray primer (as well as being an actual primer rather than merely spray paint) also has a lot of solvent in it. This means it sticks to the model better, "shrinks" onto the model better when dry which helps to preserve detail, and is more forgiving when applying.

Nothing especially wrong with Corax white (which is actually an extremely light grey), but it's far from necessary or the "best".

2) Basecoat with a light ivory of your choice. Two or three runny-thin coats, applied so that they don't pool. It's important to get a nice even colour, and no lumps or rough bits. (For the ivory can I use Pallid Wych Flesh by GW? It's kind of the ivory-ish colour?)

Yep, that should be fine.

If you do find it a bit dark though, mix a couple of drops with a drop or two of white on a palette before you apply it. Keep the ratio simple (like 3 parts Rakarth Flesh: 2 parts White), and write the mixture down for next time!

3) Gloss varnish the model. Let this dry somewhere warm for at least 24 hours. (I'm unsure of best gloss varnish to get sorry, is there like an acrylic one I should look out for? sorry as I said I'm not very good at this and not very knowledgeable sorry. Also why do you gloss it now only to put the matte on it later?)

You can use an acrylic or a polyurethane varnish. The Polyurethane varnishes can yellow a bit over time (talking 5-10 years here...), so make sure you get a non-yellowing one (it'll say on the tin). I would go water-based either way though.

It's important to use a reasonable one, and that you thin it a little before you apply it - don't let it pool. Use a large soft cheap brush to apply it to ensure that you get a nice smooth coat.

The gloss is important for a few reasons. First, it helps to create a smooth surface that the wash can really flow over. Second, it's quite a tough surface that will resist your efforts with the sponge later on and protect the paint underneath. Thirdly, because it's easy to wipe the weathering off of, it resists getting too stained and lets the white underneath come through quite strongly on the higher/larger areas (and therefore saves you needing to do highlights).

You can always "correct" the shinyness of the finish afterwards with a matte varnish. Most people favour a matte finish for their models because it makes them seem more realistic.

4) Wash the whole model with a little bit of brown artist's oil paint thinned with some white spirit. Let this dry for a few hours. (Can you use a GW wash watered down here? Like Seraphim sepia or Agrax earthshade which is quite dark?)

You can, but most acrylics cannot be re-activated with solvent once they cure (they can only be stripped). Therefore, if you apply the washes, they will need to be wiped off whilst still wet, and this is extremely difficult to do neatly.

If you intend to use washes, I wouldn't use the gloss varnish step, and instead just carefully paint the washes into the recesses (to avoid re-painting the ivory later on too much). Don't worry if they are not 100% neat, as this adds a little to the mucky look, but do try to avoid being overly messy.

Colour-wise, you can mix the two washes to get an intermediate colour if you prefer. Maybe 1:1? Once dry, you can use the darker brown on its own to reinforce a few of the deeper shadows if you want.

6) Seal the model with a decent matte varnish, and set aside to dry. You can then finish any other details as you'd like and re-seal at the end. (See above about the matte varnish after glossing it confusion)

The matte finish seals your work, and gives everything a nice uniform look.

I'm really sorry to spam you with questions Major, you've been a massive help so far so thank you. I'm really interested in trying this out!

You're very welcome, and I'm glad to help!

If you want to have a look, there's actually a decent video tutorial here that I found. Although it's more involved than what I've suggested (he adds a lot more detail and steps), he does still follow the same processes.

[Herald of Magnus]

Misterkho thats some amazing help thanks! I think basically I was applying the sepia waaayyy too heavy (making the white models now look rather orange) and then to counter that weird look I was drybrushing really heavily so my models look like they're just pallid wych flesh in colour for armour with splodges of the sepia not looking so much like rust/dirt since it's everywhere. If you did have WIP pics I'm definitely still interested so I can compare where I'm at.

 

 

Major, that video tutorial is great! I love some of the effects he gets with them washes and it looks amazing! Though it looks like rather a lot for each marine. My army is generally looking like 20 veterans, 30 assault marines then various terminators etc so I've got a lot to get through. Though I definitely want to look into this way of doing it since as I said, I love the finished effect of this. Though with the scratches maybe I'd have a few less aha. I think I outlined my issue in the above point though so hopefully I should be able to rectify it.

[Father Mehman]

I'm probably beating a dead horse but here goes how I paint the Death Guard. It's not the only way, as you know, but it's what I prefer. The ivory-coloured models don't do anything for me, personally, but everyone has different tastes.

 

I use a few terms you may not know. Undercoating, for instance, just means fully covering an area with a paint in preparation for another paint to go on top of it. For example, the recipe below calls for an Abaddon Black undercoat before a basecoat of Castellan Green. This first coat will make the basecoat darker. Also, further in the recipe I reference line washing. This technique is also called a recess wash. Here's how you do it: load your brush with the wash, get a good tip on the brush, and then paint the wash into the lines in the armour and along where two armour plates meet - places like that.

 

The oil wash can be made by placing a little bit of oil paint in a shallow palette bowl and mixing thinner until it is the consistency of a GW wash. I mention Low Odour Thinner but that's just one brand that isn't so smelly. Feel free to use whatever thinner you'd like.

 

Before you start slapping oil wash on the model, coat the model in thinner. Load your brush (preferably a dedicated hair brush for oil wash - never use a synthetic as they melt with oils) with the wash and then just touch the tip to the lines and places where armour meets. It's another line wash that uses the surface tension of the coated model to pull the wash into place.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

 

Pre-painting:

Prime / undercoat the model white using either primer or GW spray

 

- Armour -

Pauldrons

Green Fields:

Abaddon Black undercoat

Castellan Green basecoat

Elysian Green drybrush

 

Legion Symbol:

Abaddon Black basecoat

Celestra Grey basecoat on skull

Ulthuan Grey layer on skull

 

Black Field:

Abaddon Black basecoat

Eshin Grey drybrush

---

 

Weathered Plate:

Stormvermin Fur sponge weathering on white armour and some on pauldrons; pay attention to the legs and less towards the head

Seraphim Sepia line wash

 

Steel:

Leadbelcher basecoat

Agrax Earthshade / Nuln Oil (3:1) wash

 

Bronze:

Balthasar Gold basecoat

Agrax Earthshade / Nuln Oil (3:1) wash

 

Eyes:

Mephiston Red basecoat

 

Main Weathering:

Apply Satin Varnish to the model

Coat the model in Low Odour Thinner

Van Dyke Brown wash over white plate; after 30 min, take cotton bud and wipe wash downwards

Burnt Umber line wash

Apply Matte Varnish when dry

 

Again, I'm not saying my way is the best. Choose whichever way you're not quite comfortable with, though. It may take you some time but you'll get the hang of it soon enough and make you a better painter.