Jump Infantry and Scout

[Angmarred]

How far can Jump Infantry scout? 6 or 12?

 

Some relevant quotes (feel free to add more)

 

Scout

"If the unit type is Infantry,..., each model can redeploy anywhere entirely within 6" of its current position. If it is any other unit type, each model can instead redeploy anywhere within 12" of its current position."

 

Jump Units

"Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rule for Jump units and Infantry."

[em_en_oh_pee]

As stated in the thread that caused this rules query, I see that Jump is its own unique category in the rulebook. This seems to give Jump Infantry a secondary category that would classify it under the "any other unit type" section of Scout, lending to the 12" redeployment. 

At least, that is my thought on the matter. I am going to post on GW's FB page and ask, just because why not (I know its not official). 

[Nusquam]

Jump Infantry is infantry. "Jump" isn't it's own unit classification.

[Purge the Daemon]

Well if we look at LA raven Guard.

 

Fw ruled that jump infantry do not benefit from outflank only the hit ND run because they are jump infantry and other infantry.

[em_en_oh_pee]

Jump Infantry is infantry. "Jump" isn't it's own unit classification.

 

Incorrect. Under "Unit Types" in the 40k Rulebook, it is listed as a separate unit entry with its own rules. Same as Artillery, Beasts, MCs, etc. 

[Angmarred]

Well, I'd say "Jump Infantry" isnt a unit type. Jump Unit is. And Infantry is. Jump Infantry use the rules for both. The question is whether they count as Infantry for Scout or other because they also have the Jump type.

[Lord Asvaldir]

GW really just needs to rule that jump/jet infantry are a completely separate unit type from infantry to avoid confusion like this. Personally I think jump infantry get the full 12" move since they do fall on the "other" unit type category.

[em_en_oh_pee]

GW really just needs to rule that jump/jet infantry are a completely separate unit type from infantry to avoid confusion like this. Personally I think jump infantry get the full 12" move since they do fall on the "other" unit type category.

 

Yea, I was surprised this didn't pop up in the latest FAQ/Errata. 

[Quixus]

GW really just needs to rule that jump/jet infantry are a completely separate unit type from infantry to avoid confusion like this. Personally I think jump infantry get the full 12" move since they do fall on the "other" unit type category.

Or they should clarify how you are supposed to apply rules that do one thing to infantry and something else (or nothing) to all other unit types. Jump Infantry cannot at the same time follow the rules for infantry and follow the rules for other unit types at the same time, unless of course GW fiats that jump infantry is infantry, with all the consequences.

[Baluc]

Only madness lays here. Sometimes they are infantry and sometimes they are not.

[Withershadow]

The rules flat out state Jump is not a unit classification on its own, but more of a modifier for other unit types. I have not seen any rulings from FW that prevents Raven Guard assault marines from benefitting from infantry buffs.

[em_en_oh_pee]

The rules flat out state Jump is not a unit classification on its own, but more of a modifier for other unit types. I have not seen any rulings from FW that prevents Raven Guard assault marines from benefitting from infantry buffs.

 

I get what you are saying, but this stupid clause makes it less clear:

 

"follow the rule for Jump units and Infantry."

 

That is two unit types. Both with their own rules. So, it could be a lot clearer. GW at their best, amirite?

[Baluc]

The rules flat out state Jump is not a unit classification on its own, but more of a modifier for other unit types. I have not seen any rulings from FW that prevents Raven Guard assault marines from benefitting from infantry buffs.

FW don't even know what they are doing. RAW I agree with you that Raven Guard assault marines get all their LA:RG rules. But good luck convincing others of that argument, people love to dive into the murky waters of RAI. 

 

My favorite is how they invent new rules or half phrases to represent things that have USRs already. Genius level rules writing there. Instead of doing garbage ports across multiple releases, just errata your existing books to be consistent with the new rules. Why are they still printing Sunder? Its strictly worse than new Tank hunter yes, but effectively for 99.9% of gamers the same rule. Why have both rules in one rule set? But they keep releasing new units with Sunder...

 

Jump infantry are Infanty and follow all the rules for infantry. Except when FW uses the word Infantry and Jump infantry because they can't be consistent. For example Hunter's gait says infantry and then they exclude Terminator and jump packs. So are we to infer that infantry includes jump infantry in the mind of FW writers? And, if it does, does that mean the Jump infantry get a 2d6 hit and run in Pale hunter? And if that is the case why is this modified version of hit and run even included? SW jump infantry are worse at disengaging than everyone elses jump infantry? Its a nest of hot flaming trash, madness, madness is all that you will find.

[Withershadow]

Sunder doesn't transfer, so you can't join a Master of Signal to a sundering unit and get tank hunter on your orbital blast?

 

 

The rules flat out state Jump is not a unit classification on its own, but more of a modifier for other unit types. I have not seen any rulings from FW that prevents Raven Guard assault marines from benefitting from infantry buffs.

 

I get what you are saying, but this stupid clause makes it less clear:

 

"follow the rule for Jump units and Infantry."

 

That is two unit types. Both with their own rules. So, it could be a lot clearer. GW at their best, amirite?

 

 

I never saw this as unclear. Infantry is the main, actually defined unit type. Jump is a sub-classification, much like Artillery (Immobile) is a unit of Artillery, but also follows additional rules due to its subtype of Immobile, or (Fast) is a subtype of vehicle. But their language invites confusion, I don't disagree. Still, since we're told one is a unit type and the other "Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself", I would think the Infantry unit type takes precedence here.

[Nusquam]

 

Jump Infantry is infantry. "Jump" isn't it's own unit classification.

 

Incorrect. Under "Unit Types" in the 40k Rulebook, it is listed as a separate unit entry with its own rules. Same as Artillery, Beasts, MCs, etc. 

 

 

No, I am correct.

 

BRB, page 65

 

"Unlike most other unit categories, 'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself."

 

Jump Infantry is still infantry.

[Quixus]

No, that conclusion is incorrect, while jump is not a unit classification in and of itself, jump infantry is, and that classification cannot be the same as infantry, because they have different rules. Since the rules differ, you cannot follow both rules at the same time. Just a few examples:

Jump infantry can move 12" infantry 6"

Jump Infantry can  back 3d6" infantry 2d6"

jump infantry can reroll their charge distance, infantry cannot.

 

If at any point you use the characteristics of Jump infantry (e.g. move more than 6") you are no longer following the rules for infantry, so it is impossible to "follow the rule for Jump units and Infantry". This rule needs to be rewritten.

[Caillum]

I see it's the Bi-Annual Jump Infantry Discussion! Oh, how I've missed this. :P

 

We will not achieve anything the way we are going, as we haven't in the many past discussions about it. If we spend our time and effort on emails to Forge World and GW, perhaps they will address it.

[Withershadow]

FW and GW do not care. The local group even had a bunch of cakes and pastries made, with the FAQ questions ON the cakes and pastries, and sent them to FW in hopes of getting a response that way. Silence.

 

Anyway, since the book DOES tell us "Jump infantry" is not really a classification, it's probably best to treat this as a special rule not unlike Smash. So when they say "Jump Infantry", read that as "Infantry with the Jump special rule". Everything makes a whole lot more sense then and there aren't these strange grey areas.