2.5k Orbital Assault BA, Is it a Jerk List or is it fair?

[m0nolith]

Do you guys consider this army to be too brutal or is it fine?

Im looking to make something fair and that would fit well in the narrative sense. I want the game to be fun and not one sided. This isnt 40k after all.

 

Blood Angels Legion

RoW: Orbital Assault

 

HQ

-Cataphractii Praetor w/ Blade of Perdition

4 Cataphractii Bodyguards w/ 2 x Chainfists

Dreadclaw Drop Pod

 

-Moritat w/ dual inferno pistols, Jump Pack, AA, Refractor Field

 

TROOPS

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Drop Pod

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

 

Edit: Also added another list

 

List 2

 

HQ

-Cataphractii Praetor w/ Blade of Perdition, Digital Lasers

 

ELITES

-9 Cataphractii Terminator Squad w/ 5 chainfists

-10 Vets w/ Marksmen, 2 Heavy Flamers, AA, Melta Bombs, Drop Pod.

-10 Vets w/ Marksmen, 2 Heavy Flamers, AA, Melta Bombs, Drop Pod.

 

TROOPS

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

-Kharibdis Assault Claw

[Marbrand]

It's not that bad. A lot of points sunk into leviathans, which are brutal and all, but then you run into a world eater player who brings Angron or something and you're going to have a rough day.

[Marshal Loss]

Just check with your opponents in advance. Some armies won't be able to beat 3x Leviathans drop podding in one turn 1, but it's not like the rest of your army is terrifying - tactical squads do essentially nothing and your Terminator unit is quite small. It's probably fine

[em_en_oh_pee]

Why spam Tacs? Take something more interesting. Support Squads might be worth some thought. 

This feels a bit uninspired and cheesy for 30k. That being said, it does auto-lose on T1, which is hilarious.

[m0nolith]

Why spam Tacs? Take something more interesting. Support Squads might be worth some thought.

This feels a bit uninspired and cheesy for 30k. That being said, it does auto-lose on T1, which is hilarious.

Oh, so the Orbital Assault RoW shouldn't exist then?

Oh rly?

Don't worry, I will never play a game against someone like you.

Most people wont want to ether.

[Lord Blackwood]

He could just deploy the moritat behind a rock or something and he wouldn't auto lose if someone was being particularly caustic about that sort of thing 

 

[m0nolith]

 

He could just deploy the moritat behind a rock or something and he wouldn't auto lose if someone was being particularly caustic about that sort of thing 

 

 

Yeah but I play for the fun of it, and honestly I wouldn't enjoy playing against someone like that.

Thats why im trying to make this like ok, not brutal, just ok enough to where its fun for the both of us.

 

Another thing I could do is I could do is dorp the Moritat, the Dreadclaw and the Bodyguards, and instead give Nuncio Voxes to 3 of the tactical squads and have the Praetor and 10 catapractii teleport in. The army would look like this:

 

HQ

-Cataphractii Praetor w/ Blade of Perdition

 

ELITES

10 Cataphractii Terminator Squad w/ 3 chainfists

 

TROOPS

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Nuncio Vox, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Nuncio Vox, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Nuncio Vox, Drop Pod

 

-Tactical Squad w/ AA, Melta Bomb, Drop Pod

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

-Leviathan Dreadnought w/ Claw, Drill, Armored Ceramite, Phospex, 2x Iliastus Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Drop Pod

[em_en_oh_pee]

"play for fun"...

Takes three Leviathans in pods.

 

lol

[Runefyre]

I wouldn't be too worried, a decently built list should be able to withstand your list.

 

Looks like a lot of fun tbh. Not to mention beautiful to behold, I love dreadnoughts!

[m0nolith]

"play for fun"...

Takes three Leviathans in pods.

lol

Troll harder

[Jarkaira]

Second iteration is better as you can't auto-lose even against jerks who insist to play with their bad interpretation of rules without no common sense.

 

This list has a double take on other lists. If the list that goes against it is actually a decent one then those dreadnought pose a threat which can be surpassed by good tactics and all the toys in the lists but will still give a good challenge both ways.

 

There is however a possibility of this becoming a full bully list if facing plenty calth box lists so I suggest you to take notion of that and consider your meta and make changes according it.

 

I would play against it and I can't say beforehand who would win which is good as I don't like playing games in which you can guess the winner before deployment.

 

Although I can't give extra points on imagination but there is just limited way how to organize your army and this is one way :)

[Jarkaira]

I would really like to know why OA lists without anchor units would autolose always.

 

If at any point, unless specified by the particular mission, a side has no models present on the table, their opponent has won.

 

What does any point actually mean? Is it a start of a turn 1 or or is it during the deployment or or at other time?

 

If it is at the start of a turn one then there is no problem as those drop pods deploy at the start of the game and if it is during deployment then every army would autolose unless they have miniatures on the table before deployment starts. In a case of game starting on deployment then a player who agrees that deployment starts but hasn't taken any of his miniatures on the table from his bag then he has lost already. Be careful about that too.

 

If the game starts even earlier than deployment like when building lists then you should have a model at the desired table all the time or you would auto-lose.

 

Or we could just have some common sense and say that the game starts at the start of game turn 1 and there won't be any problems as those drop pods will arrive at the start of a turn.

[m0nolith]

I would really like to know why OA lists without anchor units would autolose always.

 

If at any point, unless specified by the particular mission, a side has no models present on the table, their opponent has won.

 

What does any point actually mean? Is it a start of a turn 1 or or is it during the deployment or or at other time?

 

If it is at the start of a turn one then there is no problem as those drop pods deploy at the start of the game and if it is during deployment then every army would autolose unless they have miniatures on the table before deployment starts. In a case of game starting on deployment then a player who agrees that deployment starts but hasn't taken any of his miniatures on the table from his bag then he has lost already. Be careful about that too.

 

If the game starts even earlier than deployment like when building lists then you should have a model at the desired table all the time or you would auto-lose.

 

Or we could just have some common sense and say that the game starts at the start of game turn 1 and there won't be any problems as those drop pods will arrive at the start of a turn.

Its a common sense sort of thing. 

Some people categorically dont have it.

[em_en_oh_pee]

I would really like to know why OA lists without anchor units would autolose always.

 

If at any point, unless specified by the particular mission, a side has no models present on the table, their opponent has won.

 

What does any point actually mean? Is it a start of a turn 1 or or is it during the deployment or or at other time?

 

If it is at the start of a turn one then there is no problem as those drop pods deploy at the start of the game and if it is during deployment then every army would autolose unless they have miniatures on the table before deployment starts. In a case of game starting on deployment then a player who agrees that deployment starts but hasn't taken any of his miniatures on the table from his bag then he has lost already. Be careful about that too.

 

If the game starts even earlier than deployment like when building lists then you should have a model at the desired table all the time or you would auto-lose.

 

Or we could just have some common sense and say that the game starts at the start of game turn 1 and there won't be any problems as those drop pods will arrive at the start of a turn.

 

Unless you go second, then your opponent automatically wins, because your pods don't come in until your player turn. 

 

And honestly, "any point" is vague, but from what the scuttlebutt going around is, Bligh confirmed at a recent event that this was in error. So, hopefully we get an FAQ/Errata soon to clear this whole issue up entirely. 

[em_en_oh_pee]

"play for fun"...

Takes three Leviathans in pods.

lol

Troll harder

Says the guy running triple Leviathans "for fun". Come on man, that is like all the cheese.

[Withershadow]

Second iteration is better as you can't auto-lose even against jerks who insist to play with their bad interpretation of rules without no common sense.

I've noticed in quite a few threads that you have a real nasty and combative attitude. And here you are the pot calling the kettle black. The rules are clear as day if you open your eyes, and they only apply to core missions.

[m0nolith]

Oh whats this?

An Ignore option on the tab?!

Oh looks like another troll is going up there

[Indefragable]

Side note, not trying to get off track:

Hidden Content

 

Unless 30k rules are different, in 40k I--and everyone I know--has always understood the "no models on the table" thing to mean at the end of a Game Turn. It's like an inning in baseball: there's a top half and a bottom half, but the game's not over until you've had both. 

 

So if you have all Drop Pod units and go 2nd, then you don't auto-lose for having "no models on the table" at the start of Turn 1. 

 

However, if you have something like...say...the Angel's Fury Spearhead formation where you (re)roll for reserves Turn 1, but you fail, then yes, you would auto-lose since you had "no models on the table" at the end of the game Turn. 

 

I am all confused by why there is even a discussion on the topic. 

 

[em_en_oh_pee]

Side note, not trying to get off track:

Hidden Content

 

Unless 30k rules are different, in 40k I--and everyone I know--has always understood the "no models on the table" thing to mean at the end of a Game Turn. It's like an inning in baseball: there's a top half and a bottom half, but the game's not over until you've had both. 

 

So if you have all Drop Pod units and go 2nd, then you don't auto-lose for having "no models on the table" at the start of Turn 1. 

 

However, if you have something like...say...the Angel's Fury Spearhead formation where you (re)roll for reserves Turn 1, but you fail, then yes, you would auto-lose since you had "no models on the table" at the end of the game Turn. 

 

I am all confused by why there is even a discussion on the topic. 

 

 

Because the 30k AoD Victory Conditions state "at any point" and not "end of Game Turn". Distinctly different, albeit extremely stupid of FW to do (especially when they had seemingly gone to Game Turn in another book). 

[K3nn3rs]

Yawn...

 

or extremely stupid of the players reading it as 'auto lose'...

[em_en_oh_pee]

Yawn...

 

or extremely stupid of the players reading it as 'auto lose'...

 

"If at any point, unless specified by the particular mission, a side has no models present on the table, their opponent has won." p113 Red Book

 

Doesn't seem "extremely stupid", more like "following the rules as they are written". Is it a dumb rule? Yes... but it is still a rule (currently). 

[Jarkaira]

So do drop pods come in before, after or the same time as any point first happens?

 

This is the question you should be asking and I do think drop pods come in the same time as first any point is relevant and therefore they won't lose before the first turn starts.

 

Also there is actually no other understandable assumption of when the any point becomes relevant but start of turn one because if it would be during deployment people would lose if the deployment starts and they haven't yet placed a single miniature into the table which would be as good intellectual derping as saying that the game is auto-lose for both if there is something such as scenery or battlemat between the table and the miniatures.

[em_en_oh_pee]

So do drop pods come in before, after or the same time as any point first happens?

 

This is the question you should be asking and I do think drop pods come in the same time as first any point is relevant and therefore they won't lose before the first turn starts.

 

Also there is actually no other understandable assumption of when the any point becomes relevant but start of turn one because if it would be during deployment people would lose if the deployment starts and they haven't yet placed a single miniature into the table which would be as good intellectual derping as saying that the game is auto-lose for both if there is something such as scenery or battlemat between the table and the miniatures.

 

You are forgetting that the drop pod player may wind up going second, meaning that during PT1, they have no models on the table and thus lose. 

 

Pretty straight-forward. Quite a liability, really - banking on a 50/50 roll-off to see who goes first (barring modifiers) to not auto-lose. 

[Jarkaira]

I am not forgetting it. It just means you can have more matches per evening as you if you lose the roll for going first as well as seize initiative you can easily get another match.

 

On tournaments this is also a good way to grab some freetime to drink more beer and also get TOs to notice that maybe they should rule something about the issue if they already haven't.

[em_en_oh_pee]

I am not forgetting it. It just means you can have more matches per evening as you if you lose the roll for going first as well as seize initiative you can easily get another match.

 

On tournaments this is also a good way to grab some freetime to drink more beer and also get TOs to notice that maybe they should rule something about the issue if they already haven't.

 

Or... you know, just... make a list that plays within the confines of the rules? A single anchor unit isn't the end of the world until FW finally does FAQ/Errata this.