Cryptix Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 So, now that they're a full army list, can they take agents of the emperor as HQs like legion armies can? I'm inclined to think yes, so my Wolf Knight Errant can see use with his Sentinel Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Yup. They're loyalist so all A-OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I would say no... clearly the intent is that forces cannot ally with themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I would say no... clearly the intent is that forces cannot ally with themselves. They aren't the same force though, and you don't ally in Knight Errants, they're a HQ choice you sub in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I would say no... clearly the intent is that forces cannot ally with themselves. They aren't the same force though, and you don't ally in Knight Errants, they're a HQ choice you sub in. Are you trying to suggest they are not all Against of the Emperor? Or that they use the rules for Allies... Just because they aren't in an "allied detachment"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarkaira Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 There actually isn't even entry about how ToE allies to other factions :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Yea, chalk another one up to poor writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I would say no... clearly the intent is that forces cannot ally with themselves. They aren't the same force though, and you don't ally in Knight Errants, they're a HQ choice you sub in. Are you trying to suggest they are not all Against of the Emperor? Or that they use the rules for Allies... Just because they aren't in an "allied detachment"? No. The Knights Errant literally have the special rule "Agent of the Emperor" which means they can be taken in any Loyalist army as a non-compulsory HQ choice. The Talons of the Emperor list is completely and utterly seperate from the Knights errant. It is just another loyalist army list. So you can most certainly take a KE in a Talons Detachment. There is no "allying with the same force" at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 @Charlo the Agents of the Emperor special rule literally says they count as Agents of the Emperor on the allies matrix. Again just because its not an allied detachment doesn't make them not allies. So is your argument that Talons are not Agents of the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Interesting situation; so is the act of using an Agent of Emperor/Warmaster considered allying even if they aren't using the Allied Force Org? for example a Legion using Pride of Legion, does this preclude them from taking a Knight Errant or Navigator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Interesting situation; so is the act of using an Agent of Emperor/Warmaster considered allying even if they aren't using the Allied Force Org? for example a Legion using Pride of Legion, does this preclude them from taking a Knight Errant or Navigator? It depends on the particular restriction. All the RoWs in Age of Darkness Army List say "allied detachment" so KE are good to go, since they're not taken as an Allied Detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsol Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I think you can. Agents of the emperor are specific units that can be taken in ANY loyalist Imperial army as an HQ choice so long as its not the compulsory choice, they can actually be 'subbed' into your army. In addition, I don't understand why people are combining Talons and Agents (of the emperor) they're obviously two different words therefore they're two different armies of the imperium... Even if they were the same faction why are people saying you can't take KEs? thats like saying that you can't take a Praetor or Magos in a Legions or mechanicum list, that doesn't make sense. It would even appeal to the fluff aspect of 30k: "Malcador has sent a member of the Knights errant to deal with an important task for the betterment of mankind which has such an import that even the Emperor has despatched members of the Custodes to accompany and assist the Knight Errant." Ultimately, I believe KEs can be used in a Talons list. in fact I would recommend them: an Apothicarion/librarian love-child would be an awesome and competitive addition to any Custodes squad not to mention it would be Fluffy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Custodes weren't particularly trusting of even loyal Primarchs, much less Astartes, and even less Astartes from Traitor Legions. I am unconvinced all of Malcador's machinations were shared with the Emperor's other servants. More grimdark that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsol Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Custodes weren't particularly trusting of even loyal Primarchs, much less Astartes, and even less Astartes from Traitor Legions. I am unconvinced all of Malcador's machinations were shared with the Emperor's other servants. More grimdark that way. I guess... but there were instances where the Sigilite and Valdor worked together when fighting against Horus (In Nemesis) a similar scenario may have happened again. even if the Emperor didn't know about these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughingman Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Custodes weren't particularly trusting of even loyal Primarchs, much less Astartes, and even less Astartes from Traitor Legions. I am unconvinced all of Malcador's machinations were shared with the Emperor's other servants. More grimdark that way. I guess... but there were instances where the Sigilite and Valdor worked together when fighting against Horus (In Nemesis) a similar scenario may have happened again. even if the Emperor didn't know about these events. The Ephoroi (the cloak and dagger division of the custodes) supposedly used covert operations, infiltration and assassination on occasion. So Valdor and by extension the Emperor likely tolerated behavior similar to the Malcador machinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Basically it comes down to if you think Custodes are "agents of the Emperor" if you say they are not it also means they can't ally with anything. Since they aren't on the allied chart. If you think they are then they can't ally with knights errant. Since delf allying is prohibited. You choose your interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Adding a KE to a qualifying army is not the same as allying anything else as there are additional rules in play. The only prerequisite is the army needs to be Loyalist which obviously the Talons list is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsol Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Basically it comes down to if you think Custodes are "agents of the Emperor" They're not... the word Talon and Agent were completely different words the last time I checked EDIT: I checked the dictionary, they ARE different words... how about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Basically it comes down to if you think Custodes are "agents of the Emperor" They're not... the word Talon and Agent were completely different words the last time I checked EDIT: I checked the dictionary, they ARE different words... how about that! Ok so the answer is they can't because talons aren't on the ally chart and therefor aren't a faction so can't ally at all. Good talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olsol Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 but your not adding them using the allies matrix at all! they are an option to take in your Age of darkness detachment if you are a loyalist army! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 As Skarbrand says, Baluc, they are not allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Guys, they're also missing their faction. Which means as dumb as it is, they're neither loyalist or traitor until forgerworld fixes their book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supe robot gangster #1 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Guys, they're also missing their faction. Which means as dumb as it is, they're neither loyalist or traitor until forgerworld fixes their book I believe there is a caveat in inferno somewhere (I'll dig it up later, currently out for lunch) that states all forces as presented in inferno are considered loyallist. If that is the case then they are indeed loyallist and can have a KE attached, but by RAW cannot ally with anyone or be allied with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baluc Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Guys would you just read the rules. The knight errant box literally says as an ally. There are other ways to take allies besides an allied detachment the chart is not limited to how people take allied detachments it describes allies in every situation. Interactions between multiple detachments, formations, etc are all determined by the chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 yes and you're ignoring completely what it says after that in the same rule box, he is taken as a non compulsory HQ in your main detachment in ANY loyalist force. Which part of that puts him in an allied detachment? my advise to people that rules lawyer to the ninth degree is your probably better off just getting yourself a good chess set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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