Space Wolves before, during and after Cadia (spoiler alert)

[Kasper_Hawser]

Regarding Space wolves involvement at Cadia during the 13th Black Crusade, has our involvement been retconned completely in the sense that only a couple of Great companies were at Cadia shortly before and during the fall? I'm just trying to reconcile old fluff with recent fluff and it's been giving me a a headache

 

Old fluff

 

Majority of Space Wolves were at Cadia during 13th, Logan was even elected as overall commander of astartes forces.

 

According to Ragnar Blackmane novels, the Blackmanes and at least a company of Dark Angels were at Cadia in the thick of it.

 

New fluff as per Fall of Cadia and Wrath of Magnus

Only 2 great companies present during the fall, no mention of Ragnar or Logan. Or the rest of the Space Wolves for that matter. Specifically stated to have taken place after Wrath of Magnus.

 

And yet according to the end of Wrath of Magnus, the Fang had nearly been emptied and most of the space wolves had gone to Cadia.

 

Am I missing something?

[Vash113]

Regarding Space wolves involvement at Cadia during the 13th Black Crusade, has our involvement been retconned completely in the sense that only a couple of Great companies were at Cadia shortly before and during the fall? I'm just trying to reconcile old fluff with recent fluff and it's been giving me a a headache

 

Old fluff

 

Majority of Space Wolves were at Cadia during 13th, Logan was even elected as overall commander of astartes forces.

 

According to Ragnar Blackmane novels, the Blackmanes and at least a company of Dark Angels were at Cadia in the thick of it.

 

New fluff as per Fall of Cadia and Wrath of Magnus

Only 2 great companies present during the fall, no mention of Ragnar or Logan. Or the rest of the Space Wolves for that matter. Specifically stated to have taken place after Wrath of Magnus.

 

And yet according to the end of Wrath of Magnus, the Fang had nearly been emptied and most of the space wolves had gone to Cadia.

 

Am I missing something?

 

I think the thing you're missing is the timeline, Fall of Cadia clearly sets itself after the previous 13th Black Crusade material, picking up where that ended. Essentially the timeline seems to be the following: first the majority of the Space Wolves were recalled to Fenris in response to the discovery of the Wulfen, after being recalled the Fang was emptied again as the Great Companies spread far and wide looking for the Wulfen. Then Fenris is threatened and the Great Companies are all recalled (again) and rush back to the Fenris system. In the fighting that follows Midgardia is destroyed, Egil Ironwolf is killed and the entire system suffers significant damage and casualties, however ultimately Magnus is banished and the system secured. After a short cleanup the Space Wolves receive the call for reinforcements from Cadia and Logan Grimnar leads the majority of the surviving wolves to the Cadian system to join the fighting there. Grimnar, Blackmane and many others participate in the fighting on Cadia and in the surrounding system and systems until the start of the Fall of Cadia sees only two Great Companies still on or in orbit above Cadia (the rest, including Grimnar, may have still been in the same system or been drawn to surrounding warzones).

 

Fall of Cadia doesn't seem to retconn the previous fluff rather it's tacked onto the tail end of the previous material and what happened between when we last saw Logan and Ragnar and the start of the Fall of Cadia is a little uncertain.

[RikuEru]

If goonbandito is right, there is a contingent of Space Wolves in GS3 traveling to Macragge to honor Guilliman (among other Chapters).

 

This of course is, a bit later than the Fall of Cadia.

I haven't read that far yet. Will look into it, to see if there are hints which great company it could be.

[Iron Lord]

 

I think the thing you're missing is the timeline, Fall of Cadia clearly sets itself after the previous 13th Black Crusade material, picking up where that ended.

With one notable modification - no Trapped In Blackstone Fortress for Eldrad Ulthran.

[Kasper_Hawser]

If Fall of Cadia is right after 13th Black Crusade, where is everyone else? Don't tell me the wolves packed up back to Fenris just before everything went to heck? Not just that, the Dark Angels? Flesh Tearers? The bunch of Ultramarine successors who combine companies into a unique force exclusively for Cadia? Iron Hands?

 

Sigh, something still isn't computing. It means the events at Cadia by the awesome book of Ragnar Blackmane might never have happened.

 

Don't really care what happens after Cadia got blown up, my main gripe is where the heck were ALL the Wolves when it happened? It really looks like we were napping and only left 2 great companies behind, whose sole duty is to be a footnote of help below Celestine.

 

Sorry, I'm ranting but this is really irking my inner fluff bunny.

[Triszin]

In gs1, there was a blurb about someone asking the lord of the fire howlers where grimnar was, and the reply was akin to a deathly hollow stare that ended that line of questioning.

 

There is a contingent of wolves sent to honor guilliman, but part of me thinks it's the re-implementation of the wolves to watch the primarchs, as was done during the heresy

[Jarl Caldersson]

If Fall of Cadia is right after 13th Black Crusade, where is everyone else? Don't tell me the wolves packed up back to Fenris just before everything went to heck? Not just that, the Dark Angels? Flesh Tearers? The bunch of Ultramarine successors who combine companies into a unique force exclusively for Cadia? Iron Hands?

 

Sigh, something still isn't computing. It means the events at Cadia by the awesome book of Ragnar Blackmane might never have happened.

 

Don't really care what happens after Cadia got blown up, my main gripe is where the heck were ALL the Wolves when it happened? It really looks like we were napping and only left 2 great companies behind, whose sole duty is to be a footnote of help below Celestine.

 

Sorry, I'm ranting but this is really irking my inner fluff bunny.

 

In the Eye having some mjod with Russ and bringing him up to speed, making battle plans for Burning of Prospero 2.0 Sorcerer Planet, recruiting new troops. Getting more stable gene-seed maybe?

[Vash113]

 

 

I think the thing you're missing is the timeline, Fall of Cadia clearly sets itself after the previous 13th Black Crusade material, picking up where that ended.

With one notable modification - no Trapped In Blackstone Fortress for Eldrad Ulthran.

 

 

Yea I'm not sure what's happening with that, maybe we'll get something that explains what happened there, after all only one Blackstone Fortress is still functional as of the start of Fall of Cadia but Abaddon stole two during the Gothic War... well he stole three but lost one so was left with two. Somewhere between the end of the Gothic War and Fall of Cadia he seems to have lost another, Eldrad's doing maybe?

 

If Fall of Cadia is right after 13th Black Crusade, where is everyone else? Don't tell me the wolves packed up back to Fenris just before everything went to heck? Not just that, the Dark Angels? Flesh Tearers? The bunch of Ultramarine successors who combine companies into a unique force exclusively for Cadia? Iron Hands?

 

Sigh, something still isn't computing. It means the events at Cadia by the awesome book of Ragnar Blackmane might never have happened.

 

The Cadian Gate and related warzones from the 13th Black Crusade covers at least a dozen fortress systems and many others spread around the circumference of the Eye of Terror, Grimnar was in command of ALL (except a few) Space Marine forces operating in the entire campaign, not just those on and around Cadia. While 11 of the 12 Great Companies were involved that doesn't mean they were all on Cadia itself for the entire time. As I said before it's likely that following the defeat of the first assault many of the Space Marine forces including the majority of the Space Wolves involved were tied up driving off the retreating chaos forces and securing the outer worlds of the Cadian system and the surrounding systems. Fall of Cadia even mentions that few of the ships left in orbit defending Cadia itself were still mobile, hinting that the majority of mobile warships left to pursue the enemy and engage other threats elsewhere. 

 

Given that nearly everyone who was still on Cadia when it fell died, including hundreds of Space Marines condensed from dozens of companies and warbands, an entire Crusade of Black Templars, two whole Great Companies of the Space Wolves and a significant number of Crimson and Imperial Fists it is a good thing that the majority of the chapter wasn't present on Cadia at the time or there likely wouldn't be a chapter left at all.

 

In conclusion the events of Ragnar Blackmane have (in my opinion) NOT been retconned out of existence.

 

In gs1, there was a blurb about someone asking the lord of the fire howlers where grimnar was, and the reply was akin to a deathly hollow stare that ended that line of questioning.

 

There is a contingent of wolves sent to honor guilliman, but part of me thinks it's the re-implementation of the wolves to watch the primarchs, as was done during the heresy

I noticed that little bit as well and the possibilities are certainly intriguing. It certainly shows where some of the Space Wolves from the Cadian Gate Warzone went after the Fall of Cadia and I like the idea that they went to keep an eye on Guilliman rather than simply to verify his resurrection and swear allegiance to his crusade.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

 

 

I think the thing you're missing is the timeline, Fall of Cadia clearly sets itself after the previous 13th Black Crusade material, picking up where that ended.

With one notable modification - no Trapped In Blackstone Fortress for Eldrad Ulthran.

 

Maybe we are in a parallel universe. Eldrad cast the runes of fate and this time decided to pursue the new Eldar god. He wasn't there to stop the Blackstone Fortress from crashing in Cadia.

 

I thought Ragnar was on Cadia when all of this went down due to the Ragnar Blackmane novel. But he may not have been. I wish we had more info on the Wolves involvement on Cadia. But this story isn't just about us so we are left in the dark.

I wish we had more info on the Wolves involvement in Cadia. 

[Vash113]

 

Maybe we are in a parallel universe. Eldrad cast the runes of fate and this time decided to pursue the new Eldar god. He wasn't there to stop the Blackstone Fortress from crashing in Cadia.

 

I thought Ragnar was on Cadia when all of this went down due to the Ragnar Blackmane novel. But he may not have been. I wish we had more info on the Wolves involvement on Cadia. But this story isn't just about us so we are left in the dark.

I wish we had more info on the Wolves involvement in Cadia. 

 

 

As I understand it at the end of the Gothic War Abaddon had two Blackstone Fortresses, we only see one in the Fall of Cadia and it's explicitly stated to be the last one, the other may well have fallen to Eldrad and between then and now he's been rescued.

 

As for Ragnar yes he was on Cadia as of the Ragnar Blackmane novel, however Fall of Cadia takes place after all previous 13th Black Crusade Cadia fluff and we don't know what happened between the Ragnar Blackmane Novel and Fall of Cadia, clearly the Blackmanes are no longer on Cadia, but they were there earlier.

 

The timeline is very sketchy in all of this, weeks and months pass in each of these supplements but all of it seems to be happening within the same year, 999.M41 at the very crux of the end of the 41st Millennium and the 13th Black Crusade but so far I haven't seen any indication that one set of events directly retcons another, they are all left purposefully vague and with enough separation that they can all certainly have happened in sequence.

[mactire]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when did we lose two GCs on Cadia and which ones?

[Vash113]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but when did we lose two GCs on Cadia and which ones?

 

In Fall of Cadia we lost the remainder of the Ironwolves and their new Wolf Lord, and if I recall correctly the Great Company of Sven Bloodhowl was lost in a suicide attack on the last Blackstone Fortress.

[MaveriK]

Does the Blood of Asaheim + Stormcaller fit in the current timeline? I wonder if Chris will finish up the trilogy....

[Iron Lord]

 

 

 

As I understand it at the end of the Gothic War Abaddon had two Blackstone Fortresses, we only see one in the Fall of Cadia and it's explicitly stated to be the last one, the other may well have fallen to Eldrad and between then and now he's been rescued.

 

Didn't the one in Fall of Cadia get destroyed - and then in Rise of the Primarch, Huron turns up with one? Maybe Fall of Cadia's being "the last one" is only because Abaddon handed over the other - it's the last one Abaddon had in his possession.

[Garreck]

Gathering Storm I seems to pretty effectively retcon any Space Wolf involvement around Cadia to be exclusively Ironwolves and Firehowers, and both great companies are wiped out.  There is an exchange where the Ironwolves Lord is asked if more space wolves are coming, and he give "an icy stare" or something like that.  There's no mention of Ragnar or Grimnar or any characters of such weight.  There's strong implications that the 13th company make appearances in surrounding systems.

 

*edit*

As to continuity with the end of Wrath of Magnus where we're told the majority of space wolf forces make for Cadia?  No idea.  Between Wrath of Magnus and Gathering Storm, it's really hard to understand the current state of our chapter "right now."

[Grimtooth]

I am just as guilty of it, but with every release it seems like there is more nitpicking over continuity then just enjoying the story. Would be nice if I could just forget everything that was written before and enjoy what is written now.

[mactire]

Aw jeez, I've about 30 troops and a handful of TWC already done for my 2nd GC which was going to be, you've guessed it, the IronWolves. I had great plans for an armoured cav type GC, not sure what I should do now, I know I can just go ahead with it, as I tend to pick and choose the bits I like anyway, but still this a bit of a kick in the stones.

 

I can't see the logic behind going to the bother of coming up with two pretty good formations, kitbashing two previously unseen Wolf Lords and then wiping out their entire GC's. It's not the death of the companies that I find odd (grimdark, and all that), it's the sheer bloody waste of time. Also a lot of people probably went out and made purchases and spent a load of time painting them up to field the formations, weird descision by GW. It would be like the next campaign has RG put back in stasis because his life-sustaining armour gets damaged.

[Grimtooth]

Armies are basically always a snapshot in time. That is how GW wants you to play them in terms of forging the narrative. The Iron Wolves will always exist one minute before midnight so to speak so will always be playable. And who is to say that a single Iron Wolf is not alive to recreate the company in the same image.

[MaveriK]

Does the Blood of Asaheim + Stormcaller fit in the current timeline? I wonder if Chris will finish up the trilogy....

I managed to get a reply from Chris Wraight via twitter. He says that he hopes a third book will be approved or at least he hopes so. As for the stories fitting in with the current events in the fall of cadia, he says that it will be a bit tricky but he's working on it.