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Eye of Ezekiel


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#26
cheywood

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His more fantastical 40k work like Path of Eldar is great, but not something discussable here I believe.

I'm currently reading Unforgiven and just can't get into it. All the constant disobeying of orders doesn't line up with my vision of the Dark Angels. Nothing wrong with his depiction, but in a shared universe one enters a book with pre-conceived notions of the setting and sometimes those diverge from the author's.

Edited by cheywood, 21 March 2017 - 03:05 PM.

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#27
HeritorA

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Waaaay better than Pandorax. Gotta say that my initial reaction is that it was very good. Great characterizations of the Voyostran First Born. Also while you need not have read it, there was an awesome scene relating to Pandorax in it.

As a Dark Angel fan it was very refreshing. I'll sleep on it before reviewing.

Indeed - way better than Pandorax. It would have been a 'good' novel if not for the orks.

That's as a DA fan and simply as a reader who want to get a good story. As for who do DA better - Gav or Dunn - it's easy: both Thorpe or Dunn do lucklaster DA. Poor DA are the third Legion/Chapter (after Salamanders/Raven Guard) to suffer from bad writing.
I'm curious, how many times do you read a book before you consign it to a scrapheap of mediocrity? I find that I need to read a book a couple of times before making a fully informed decision as invariably discover that I've missed things out first time round if I've read something within 2 days of release.
Usually I read book 2 times (before I critisize something - I read material). On the second reread it has not improved my opinion about it. Same with the Vulkan Lives, Deathfire, Corax anthology, Ravenwing, Purging of Kadillus - which are an abyssmal read
So you've read Eye of Ezekiel twice since it came out on Friday and formed a conclusive opinion on it? I find even once I've finished a book its themes and characters sit and percolate in my head. For me at least that's an important part of softening initial judgements, both positive and negative. To each their own though.
Usually they do - if a book is good, if it's story is well written and has some meaning. Then the book would be read again and enjoyed. Slamanders, DA and Raven Guard simply rolled a rong dice to have been written in bad stories

Certainly. I feel in the case of a wide IP, books have more stacked against them as well. For me personally, poor writing isnt the only thing that can turn me away, so can egregious examples of continuity snarl or characters acting in ways that make me feel like I'm going to blow a blood vessel. I can't stand a lot of Tau stories because they have a bad case of just being blue humans, so there's another thing that would make me drop a story beyond simple literary quality or depth.

As for Eye of Ezekiel, I'm interested to see how I take to it. A new author getting his hands on a Chapter/Legion that has long gotten the literary shaft (IMO) is an exciting prospect.

Dunn is not a new author. As for all else I agree with you
Agreed on the Salamanders and DA's. I feel with the Raven Guard it's not so much bad writing as a lack of content. There's a few George Mann books, though like Dunn he's primarily an editor, and Thorpe's written two HH novels about them, but that's pretty much it. Both the Dark Angels and Salamanders have had far more written about them, unless there's a series I'm forgetting of course.

As for Dunn, while he may not be new his output for BL as a writer is small enough that people who don't remember Pandorax might not've heard of him.
Yeah - Raven Guard got a better treatment in George Mann books in W40K. But in Hh they 'suffered' under Thorpe treatment. It was especially sad - cause their first arrival on big HH scene in 'Raven's Flight' audio was amazing (I even questioned if it was really written by Thorpe). But at least it was 'far better' treatment than poor Salamanders. They simply were written straight into hell.

It's not only Pandorax - in the long past 2000-sh his name was on almost every BL anthology as an editor (Edited by C.Dunn and M.G.). What I could remember about Dunn in good light is his audio 'Malediction', which was unexpectedly good (being a standard DA story with Fallen 'involved')
Thorpe surprises me sometimes like that. I'm not generally a big fan of his work, but every once in a while he'll hit on something really unique and enjoyable. I feel like moving away from space marines more would result in better writing from him, but that's just my opinion.

Part of the 'issue' I find with Gav is: his writing's usually very dry. His characters are fascinating depictions, but it's difficult to start gushing over them. (Though I was pleasantly surprised in "The Unforgiven", as well as his much more intriguing & evocative Fantasy work.)

40k being grim as it is means his is a bit more austere, a bit less... escapist.

Which isn't awful, hell - I *like* it - but I know it rubs some folk up the wrong way.

With that in mind, I'd generally agree - going for a more human angle really suits his writing; his Astartes can often be a bit too dour/serious/focussed for their own good (as engaging characters).

 

Dry is a good comparison. Also he has a problem with depiction of environments. I still cringe on Ravenwing running at full speed on bikes in a Ramillies class starfort ....

 

'0k being grim as it is means his is a bit more austere, a bit less... escapist.
Which isn't awful, hell - I *like* it - but I know it rubs some folk up the wrong way.' - sure teehee.gif



#28
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...Finished. And I had such hopes for these one.down.gif


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#29
Augustus

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Care to elaborate?

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#30
Mellow

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I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.
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#31
HeritorA

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...Finished. And I had such hopes for these one.down.gif

Told you.

 

I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.

If not to quote - we will lose a 'logic' connection between replies



#32
cheywood

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I find all of this quoting each other's quotes of quotes when replying to threads a bit annoying. It makes it very difficult to see what people are saying because more than half of each page is old thread content.


Apologies for that. I didn't see how terrible it looked at first.

#33
HeritorA

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Guys I do absolutely agree that a lot of 'quotes' looks bad - but if the thread goes over the page in length and has 5 or more people in discussion - how do you want to know  to whom and about what person is talking



#34
cheywood

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I think the idea is to eliminate the old quotes so you're only replying to the latest in the thread? I tried to do that but being on a phone made it kind of a hassle and I ended up with a bunch of nonsense.
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#35
HeritorA

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Exactly - a lot of us are using phones and sometimes 'in need' to answer to several people



#36
Mellow

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I'm just saying that quoting the whole of someone's reply is a bit silly. Perhaps try to crop it so you're only quoting the one paragraph that your post is in reply to.
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#37
HeritorA

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Good point Mellow. Should do the trick


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#38
mc warhammer

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yeah but on the phone, it can be tricky...sometimes it doesn't behave and removes all quote tags weirdly.
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#39
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Care to elaborate?

 
 
1. Way the story is told. Here we have "a handfull" space marines leading imperial guard in defense of a fortress/city versus milions of orks. Reminds me of something...yes! Helsreach. Only it's way worse than former. I struggled to feel the scale of this battle even with numbers provided - some 0,5 million guards + DA 5th + some skitarii maniples for defenders against 11< million orks. Yet reading through the book, it all looked very small, skirmish.
2. Characters. Characters who in my opinion utterly lacked personality (with few exceptions - Vostroyans, Turmiel, Rephiel and Baltasar). They were just random space marines that happened to be in green of the Dark Angels. Hilariously I was more interested in parts with Labdon and his squad  than in wht DA were doing.
3. Everything else.whistling.gif

Spoiler

Edited by rendingon1+, 24 March 2017 - 05:04 PM.


#40
Kharn the Bloody

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So, that Cypher scene...?



#41
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So, that Cypher scene...?

You wish an extract?



#42
Kharn the Bloody

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So, that Cypher scene...?

You wish an extract?

 

 

No, I'm wondering if there was more to it, or it was just what we saw in the preview...


Edited by Kharn the Bloody, 24 March 2017 - 08:46 PM.


#43
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Basically that's it. Nothing more except that Ezekiel recognies Cypher.



#44
DarkChaplain

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That

 

 

 
Spoiler

 

 

Nothing in that implies the Dark Angels consider themselves inferior to the Ultramarines. They are different Chapters with different focus points.

 

Dark Angels too strive for excellence in battle, and Balthasar is just an exemplar at that even among his own. It isn't related to Ultramarines doing it better, but Balthasar being great in his own right.

 

Ultramarines have a bit of a stick up their backside in a lot of Chapters' eyes, and there are various traits, including logistical and tactical thinking patterns, that Balthasar might show for himself, that would result in brothers telling him he is kind of UM. Ultramarines are meticulous in battle. They're more clinical than passionate about it, and it contrasts with the Dark Angels who can often show a degree of zeal that the Ultramarines lack.

 

It all just points out to me that Balthasar has a more analytical and clear-cut approach to his duties than many other Dark Angels, and that he strives for excellence in what he does.



#45
HeritorA

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Basically that's it. Nothing more except that Ezekiel recognies Cypher.

It's an old old horse. Almost every Cypher apperance has that moment - then main antagonist/protagonist recognies the Cypher. By that point I believe that Cypher simply use face glamour - that everyone at different timelines recognises him teehee.gif






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