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Anyone played against the Ynnari yet?


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#1
PhilB

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I had my first game against the Ynnari on the weekend, wow, what a beating I took!

 

A buddy of mine picked up his book a week or so ago and challenged me to a game telling me to bring a strong list as in his words the Ynnari are broken as hell. So I decided it would be a good time to field a double demi Lion's Blade with all the free gear, something I've only done once before verses a War Convocation. I basically loaded up on min squads with grav (tacts & devs) or flamers (assault), 2 dreads with TL heavy flamers & heavy flamers plus a grav command squad with DA conclave (I know the C:SM is better but I like flavour of Ezekiel) all loaded up in pods with the obligatory scouts out flanking for null deployment.

 

The DA conclave, Azrael, Int Chap & Command Squad were amazing crushing basically anything that came near them while lasting till the end of the game thanks to perma invisibility & veil of time but my min squads of marines & drop pods just fed the soul burst gravy train.

The game was like learning to play chess all over again, normally you're thinking about combos and follow up moves in your head and how your opponent will react on his next turn or the turn after but against the Ynnari you need to think about the consequences of your actions in the turn you're in! It's a difficult army to fight especially when you're MSU vs MSU, so much carnage!

 

Regardless of the severe hiding my DA took though it was a thoroughly enjoyable game with massive casualties on both sides. To be honest my only gripe from the game had nothing to do with the game itself with Azrael not having eternal warrior and copping a Gaze of Ynnead to the face (str 10 AP 1 ignores cover & invuls witchfire)... really GeeDubs?


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#2
Wulfgar76

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I have discovered that you really need to break the 7" chain when you're attempting to kill their units. I have used tank shock to good effect to push them out of the 7" range. Target selection is crucial when playing against Ynarri. You really have to be on top of your positioning game. Also, a large wolfkin pack can tie up several units in close combat which also limits soulburst.
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#3
aura_enchanted

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I have discovered that you really need to break the 7" chain when you're attempting to kill their units. I have used tank shock to good effect to push them out of the 7" range. Target selection is crucial when playing against Ynarri. You really have to be on top of your positioning game. Also, a large wolfkin pack can tie up several units in close combat which also limits soulburst.

ah yes melee the old enemy of the eldar


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#4
Kasper_Hawser

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Hmm, tank shock to get them out of 7". Gotta remember that. Unfortunately for me, my current style is Drop Pod assault.

 

I've faced them with my Space wolves and agree that against Ynnari, MSUs might work against you, especially if you combat squad all over the place. One serious limitation though, is that unless they use a specific formation, a unit can only benefit from Soulburst once. So if an evemy unit keeps dying near the same unit which already used soul burst, then the "death" will be wasted.

 

Small durable CC units might be better, no. 1 to ensure they don't get killed during shooting, and no. 2, they themselves don't kill enough when in combat so as not to trigger soul burst until end of opposing player turn.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#5
dtse

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I'm actually joining the gravy train and using my MSU to feed my own ynnari. Lions blade plus a reborn warhost of 9 scatbikes and a wraithknight. Every dead rhino equals double D or skathatch to your face. It's a nice combo

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#6
Wulfgar76

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That sounds like a good combo but wouldn't an opponent simply target the ynarri first to reduce or eliminate your ability to soulburst? 3 squads of jetbikes and even the wraith knight aren't hard to get rid of these days.
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#7
Loar

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 Lions blade plus a reborn warhost of 9 scatbikes and a wraithknight. Every dead rhino equals double D or skathatch to your face. It's a nice combo

 

Strange I thought I clicked on the Dark Angels Forum.  My mistake.

 

In all seriousness the idea of playing this makes my blood curdle.  I'd rather just not play at all if thats what it takes to compete in your meta :P  GL to you I guess


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#8
SnakeChisler

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The Avatar is a real killer though the jump if something dies ability is continuous so you relocate when your opponent kills something in his turn your then free to move and charge in your turn.

 

Double CAD with 7 units in each 2 lords of war, the 7 units gives 2 soulbursts per death within 7"

 

Everyone thinks its the double shooting in your turn that's going to hurt while it may do I've seen a scat Bike / Reaver / 2 LOW list where the Reavers turbo'd in the opponents turn ready for a T1 charge, the list tabled a Surge Riptide wing list in 3 turns though the writing was on the wall after T1

 

ITC are going to have to adopt some community comp style thing to even stuff up or events are going to suffer, in the hands of a WAAC player Competition wise there not just going to be unbeatable they'll table most armies in double quick time.



#9
dtse

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On a more serious note, I still win vs ynnari. You just have to be careful about distances. Yours and theirs. remember that even though they get soulburst, they are still losing units to get it. And you got lots of units as lions blade. I find I just outlast them. And play the mission. They find it hard to leave that 7" bubble to go grab objectives. Stretch them out.

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#10
SnakeChisler

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On a more serious note, I still win vs ynnari. You just have to be careful about distances. Yours and theirs. remember that even though they get soulburst, they are still losing units to get it. And you got lots of units as lions blade. I find I just outlast them. And play the mission. They find it hard to leave that 7" bubble to go grab objectives. Stretch them out.

They don't need to loose units to soulburst just be within 7" of a unit that dies (Friend or Foe) so can do it once in your turn and once in their own

 

Playing against a Demi company for example every time they pop a Rhino they can get a free action, the example I saw was crazy with Dark Elder Reavers slamming into the enemy with multi assault 1st turn the Yncarne making everyone nearby fearless and having FNP

 

Kill a Unit near the Wraithknight and it gets a Free 12" move + the psychic power to get a free soulburst so a sword and board wraithknight can be in your lines T1. 

 

Fast moving combat units backed up with fast moving shooting the Dark Eldar / Eldar + LOW bike combo just looked crazy broken as the bike spam is cheap.



#11
SnakeChisler

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Our bonus of full BS overwatch is handy but if you wipe a squad in overwatch then your open to other soulburst actions



#12
Jolemai

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How are you using Tank Shock to break the chain? Just parking your Rhino where their models were?

#13
dtse

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If you push them outside of 7" they can't soulburst.

And I'm not implying it's easy to win. Hell no. Soulburst is broken as *#^%. but you CAN win.

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#14
PhilB

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I found the full BS overwatch from the Lion's Blade not all that effectual as a lot of the time they're charging during an initiative step of the fight sub phase. We played that as having no opportunity to overwatch as the charge phase was skipped.


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#15
dtse

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TBH I think you will find the most hardcore ynnari lists are running scat bikes, reavers and wraith knights. In which case full BS overwatch, even if your not already engaged, is not that useful due to jink. Ynnari is tough matchup for sure.

With regards to my list with lions blade and ynnari. Yea. They can shoot the ynnari first. But that means he isn't shooting my 26 obsec units, my 5 gravcannons, my 7 melta guns, and the ynnari themselves can soulburst off their own deaths. It's just more targetsaturation.

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#16
SnakeChisler

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Fracture Book says you get overwatch as per normal, we have a copy

'charge as if your charging sub phase' & 'overwatch as if your opponents charging sub phase'.

Supporting fire & Ravenshield will work with the exact wording (above is the condensed version)

A unit that gets into combat can't barrel into a 2nd target using Soulburst as far as I can tell but there's an Faq on it already, we're lucky well get some sort of shooting phase.

For super heavies if you can get close with multiple units if they kill one in thier shooting phase it can be ended by a charge mid weapon cycle, doesn't seem to care about independent or split-fire as soon as something dies it's bang off they go.

Edited by SnakeChisler, 20 March 2017 - 11:50 PM.


#17
dtse

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Sure. You get overwatch if you get charged regardless of what phase. But you still can't overwatch if your already engaged in another combat.

And I believe the ruling is that the soulburst happens after all models shots have been resolved. Not sure if that's an official FAQ or not

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#18
Kasper_Hawser

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 Lions blade plus a reborn warhost of 9 scatbikes and a wraithknight. Every dead rhino equals double D or skathatch to your face. It's a nice combo

 

Strange I thought I clicked on the Dark Angels Forum.  My mistake.

 

In all seriousness the idea of playing this makes my blood curdle.  I'd rather just not play at all if thats what it takes to compete in your meta tongue.png  GL to you I guess

 

 

I agree with you Loar. Its combinations like this that makes my inner wolf howl with rage at the meta. Competitive, efficient, and utterly illogical to fluff even with the new alliance the Ynnari is forging with Guilliman and post Gathering Storm imperium.

 

 

How are you using Tank Shock to break the chain? Just parking your Rhino where their models were?

 

as mentioned before, tank shock has the potential to "push" units away if done right, potentially exceeding the 7" soulburst range which they need to be near someone when they die.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#19
PhilB

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Really? He neglected to mention that part about overwatch. That's good to know then, unless there was something else stopping it like a Banshee mask equivalent.

I'll have to follow that up with him.


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#20
G8Keeper

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Really? He neglected to mention that part about overwatch. That's good to know then, unless there was something else stopping it like a Banshee mask equivalent.

I'll have to follow that up with him.

Unfortunately I faced an evil harlequin/ craftworld list with an Autarch equipped with a Banshee mask that ruined my day overwatch wise after carefully setting the trap :(.

 

I found Deathwing do well against multiple soulbursting harlequin units as they survive the initial charge nicely.



#21
Brother Vod

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First game against Ynnari was a practice match for an upcoming ITC tournament. This was before the FAQ, so my opponent had scat bikes, howling banshees in raiders, wrathknight, Vauls Wrath artillery. I had an Azrael Lion's blade double demi with a small barkstar of 3 Iron Priests on bikes + 12 cyberwolves + a ministorium priest with litanies of faith. I kept my units spread out, and luckily the Ynnari player wasn't too good at stacking up his units within the 7" so there wasn't a lot of soulburst.

 

I even  managed to use soulburst against him to take out his Wraithknight. Turn 1 I flat-outed a razorback into range of the WK, but kept it within range of my grav-cannons. On his turn, he wrecked the razorback and then soulbursted the WK to assault the tac squad. Turn 2 the grav-cannons removed his WK. The game ended up a draw because Azzy decided to stay in reserve playing throw & fetch with the space puppies until turn 4.

 

My next game against Ynnari will be against one of the better players in my area, who's using a reborn warhost with a rip-tide wing.


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#22
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I played an all-scat bike CAD with two Farseers and a Fire Prism. He forgot about Soulburst, and I wiped him out bar one unit, although he won by two VPs (we were playing a custom scenario).

 

I'd be interested to see if you could use Soulburst to initiate a charge, use the Ravenshield rule to get a extra few Overwatch shots and wipe the unit out. Have Vengeances just found their forte?



#23
dtse

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If you are eligible to overwatch you can overwatch a soulburst. So if your support squadron is in range then go for it.

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#24
SnakeChisler

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I played an all-scat bike CAD with two Farseers and a Fire Prism. He forgot about Soulburst, and I wiped him out bar one unit, although he won by two VPs (we were playing a custom scenario).

 

I'd be interested to see if you could use Soulburst to initiate a charge, use the Ravenshield rule to get a extra few Overwatch shots and wipe the unit out. Have Vengeances just found their forte?

It follows all the normal rules for overwatch & that would include improved BS & Ravenshield though due to it being overwatch you still can't use the blast weapon profile.

Your also tied to 1 overwatch per turn so no double dipping of Ravenshield in the soulburts phase then Ravenshield in the actual assault phase as well.

 

As soon as the assault soulburst happens you stop carry on with the turn and resolve the combat in the Assault phase proper



#25
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I played an all-scat bike CAD with two Farseers and a Fire Prism. He forgot about Soulburst, and I wiped him out bar one unit, although he won by two VPs (we were playing a custom scenario).

 

I'd be interested to see if you could use Soulburst to initiate a charge, use the Ravenshield rule to get a extra few Overwatch shots and wipe the unit out. Have Vengeances just found their forte?

It follows all the normal rules for overwatch & that would include improved BS & Ravenshield though due to it being overwatch you still can't use the blast weapon profile.

Your also tied to 1 overwatch per turn so no double dipping of Ravenshield in the soulburts phase then Ravenshield in the actual assault phase as well.

 

As soon as the assault soulburst happens you stop carry on with the turn and resolve the combat in the Assault phase proper

 

 

How would overwatch work with a soulburst in your turn?  Would you be able to Ravenshield/overwatch against a unit on your player turn and then, assuming you weren't locked in combat and saw another charge go off, overwatch again in the opponents player turn?  






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