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8th Edition & The HH


Charlo

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Okay, so we know a few things...

 

-Movement Stats
-Armour Save modifiers
-Morale similar to AoS
-Rrewards fluffy army comp (command points, rerolls, special rules)
-3 ways to play: match, narrative & open
-Charging units strike first (lol BA/ EC need some new rules)
 
Now... Mr. Bligh said that the Heresy will follow the main 40k rules and whatever that brings.
 
With the release of Inferno being fully catered to 7th, not to mention the other 6 books and army lists...
 
Where do we think we will go from here?
 
A MASSED FAQ-ing?
Actually stick with the 7th rules but now FW have free reign to tighten them up or adapt to the Herey?
Having to buy all of the army list books again?
 
The Primarchs too, will probably all get drastically different rules.
 
It wager that Angelus for sure will be launched with 8th in mind...
 
I can see Narrative format being fully embraced by both FW and the community though...!
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The biggest issue, I think, is that Dark Angels and Blood Angels (and possibly DarkMech and Night Lords) are going to be updated hot on the heels of 8th ed while everyone else is stuck an edition behind. That might be a pain to balance, though I don't begrudge players of those Legions that.

If I was Forge World, and assuming there's not too many drastic changes I'd put a general FAQ immediately - 'Marines move 5", Terminators and Breachers move 4", Jump Packs and Bikes moves 9" etc', as well as Rend values for every weapon. Then assure people you're working on changes to match the new system, and say in the meantime the current Force Org charts/Rites/points values will suffice. The big question is Thousand Sons - I can see the psychic phase being changed heavily, and it might explain some of the more 'questionable' decisions in their design.

And if Sweeping Advance becomes optional and those Blood Angel/Space Wolf requirements finally make sense, I'll be in awe. Truly, Bligh is operating on several levels above human reality. biggrin.png

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And if Sweeping Advance becomes optional and those Blood Angel/Space Wolf requirements finally make sense, I'll be in awe. Truly, Bligh is operating on several levels above human reality. biggrin.png

What so you mean by that?
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And if Sweeping Advance becomes optional and those Blood Angel/Space Wolf requirements finally make sense, I'll be in awe. Truly, Bligh is operating on several levels above human reality. biggrin.png

What so you mean by that?

Blood Angels and I think one of the Wolf rites have rules currently where they have to Sweeping Advance after winning combat. As far I know you have to do this anyway at the moment, and it always confused/irritated me because it felt like Forge World was writing rules that didn't make sense or were redundant. If however this new edition means that Sweeping Advance is now optional, as it used to be in I think 3rd ed, it could well have been Forge World future-proofing their ruleset years in advance, and I'll take back every complaint I ever made to people about it.

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My salty answer is I'd rather rub :cuss in my eyes than go back to playing anything resembling second edition - granted it got me into the hobby but that was purely background and the stuff that was written for the Second Armageddon War - it was only 3rd that got me hooked played properly so yeah I have no intention of playing a bastardized version of 2nd

Looking at it more objectively, I'd be seriously annoyed if the books that are less than a year old are already invalidated and even more so if it means introducing mechanics that aren't 100% necessary - I mean do we really need to see how far Marines can move? - but if that's the direction they want to go, they're the ones in charge.

I'm more than confident though that the strength of the 30K community now is such that there'd be no problem in going forwards as a fan run project - the 30k contingent of my gaming group have already said that's how we'll roll going forwards if the worst does come to the worst

And if Sweeping Advance becomes optional and those Blood Angel/Space Wolf requirements finally make sense, I'll be in awe. Truly, Bligh is operating on several levels above human reality. biggrin.png

What so you mean by that?

Blood Angels and I think one of the Wolf rites have rules currently where they have to Sweeping Advance after winning combat. As far I know you have to do this anyway at the moment, and it always confused/irritated me because it felt like Forge World was writing rules that didn't make sense or were redundant. If however this new edition means that Sweeping Advance is now optional, as it used to be in I think 3rd ed, it could well have been Forge World future-proofing their ruleset years in advance, and I'll take back every complaint I ever made to people about it.

If you win combat you're not obliged to persue at present. Unless I've been playing it wrong (not that it means anything, I always chase in 30K unless it's units that can't)

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I dont think we can judge anything until we see it as a whole, to be fair some of the issues of 40k are still just as frustrating and tedious in 30k (2+ save guy taking all the hits at front of units combined with Look out sir abuse) deathstars, pychic shenanigans etc

 

i dont think it will be anywhere near 2nd edition (god do you remember how long assault phases took!) The new brutal charge first/attack first and LD tests causing wounds will mean CC armies are viable.

 

one thing i think FW could do is a generals handbook type thing with new stats/rules/points for the legions/factions. this could be updated every other year adjusting points/rules according to power levels

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Sounds a lot like they are going towards AoS, which isn't a shocker. It is a solid set of rules with a lot of fun, thematic options that actually work. 40k has become a bloated monster that I think will benefit greatly from this overhaul. I am glad I haven't started building my Legion yet. I expect these changes will fundamentally shift everything we know and what we run across the board (40k and 30k). 

 

I am excited!

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I dont think we can judge anything until we see it as a whole, to be fair some of the issues of 40k are still just as frustrating and tedious in 30k (2+ save guy taking all the hits at front of units combined with Look out sir abuse) deathstars, pychic shenanigans etc

 

i dont think it will be anywhere near 2nd edition (god do you remember how long assault phases took!) The new brutal charge first/attack first and LD tests causing wounds will mean CC armies are viable.

 

one thing i think FW could do is a generals handbook type thing with new stats/rules/points for the legions/factions. this could be updated every other year adjusting points/rules according to power levels

 

Sadly I do remember 2nd ed assault phases and I remember god knows how many hours spent mathing out what kind of save I'd get with a -4 modifier off 3 weapons and a -3 off another 4. Stupid, pointless mess. I'm not particularly fond of chargers hitting first either, initiative bonuses sure but there shouldn't be any way that an I4 marine should be hitting a Primarch like Curze, Fulgrim or Russ with high initiative. 

 

Agree completely that 7th ed is far from perfect and needed a lot of tweaking (if not outright trashing) of some rules

 

And sorry but General's Handbook? I'm not paying what amounts to a subscription on top of models/volumes to play the game. 

 

Think it's safe to say that a ticket to the FW Open Day this year is going to be in huge demand - people either lavishing praise on them or demanding to know why they've betrayed us all. 

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While some changes will be easily implemented, and I like some (movement, armour reduction - old fantasy player here) I am extremely worried about the effect of this on 30k. Chargers hitting first I am not a fan of, the leadership proposal I am also not a fan of.

 

My main concern, to be honest, is FW's response. Hopefully they 1) don't take too long to update the rules, leaving us in the lurch, as timely FAQ's aren't really their strong suite, or 2) rush through changes and basically remove the brilliant balance and thematic qualities that makes the setting so much fun to play in.

 

Things like Primarch balance, Legion rules - all are going to need to be looked at. This could be brilliant, it could be mediocre (possibly for a long time) or it could be terrible. I'd much rather FW just use the 7th ed rulebook as the '30k rulebook,' but I understand why this isn't the case.

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And sorry but General's Handbook? I'm not paying what amounts to a subscription on top of models/volumes to play the game. 

 

 

I mean, it's £15.... And you already buy the HUGE expensive black books and army lists.... It's hardly a big fee.

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And sorry but General's Handbook? I'm not paying what amounts to a subscription on top of models/volumes to play the game. 

 

 

I mean, it's £15.... And you already buy the HUGE expensive black books and army lists.... It's hardly a big fee.

 

 

Honestly if they're doing that they're releasing it for free or not at all. Or you're cutting out the last 3rd of every Black Book and reducing the price accordingly because the rules that would be in there are redundant within a few months.

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Indeed. I'm willing to at least see what the future holds before going off the deep end. My cynicism right now comes from the potential of a game I really enjoy being returned to a game I hated.

 

Guess the next few months are going to be a hot-bed of rumour, hype and nerd-rage 

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My salty answer is I'd rather rub :cuss in my eyes than go back to playing anything resembling second edition - granted it got me into the hobby but that was purely background and the stuff that was written for the Second Armageddon War - it was only 3rd that got me hooked played properly so yeah I have no intention of playing a bastardized version of 2nd

 

7th edition is a basterized version of the second. That is why I love it so much. ;)
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I don't see how FW could get away with not releasing new red books updated for 8th edition, there's simply too many rules changes that they will have to adapt to, which is kinda a pain since we all had to just buy the new red books a year ago, but what can you do. 

 

I'm praying 8th will be good, somewhat suspect that it won't be after the mess that was AoS. Long as the game isn't ruined though like fantasy was I'll take that as good enough. 

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I'd much rather FW just use the 7th ed rulebook as the '30k rulebook,' but I understand why this isn't the case.

No, sorry no. This would split the community even more than it is already (seriously, reading that some people won't allow to play with Xenos or other armies against "30k armies" just gives me headache). "Age of Darkness" is, and always was an expansion for Warhammer 40,000. 

 

Also three ways to play should give everyone soemthing to look forward too:

 

- Open Play if you start to collect a new army, or if you want to try out a new unit.

- Narrative Play for all of us who want to re-play the heresy, or write our own narrative without having to "win a game in order to have fun".

- Matched Play for these who want to play tournaments. Hopefully this time the "30k lists" will be better balanced next to their 40k lists :)

 

I'm looking forward to it. 7th plays slow and is overcomplicated - we need a game that's easy to lern, but hard to master :)

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Yeah, let's attract more Milleniels to the game. I like people who are to lazy to read a couple of rules.

HA. Wow that was good for a laugh. Thanks I needed that... Nothing like good 'ol generalising and elitism right?

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I'd much rather FW just use the 7th ed rulebook as the '30k rulebook,' but I understand why this isn't the case.

No, sorry no.

 

 

What part of 'but I understand why this isn't the case' do you not understand? Don't quote a sentence out of context and then ignore half of it to make a point.

 

In addition, most of your points are opinion masquerading as fact. Open Play & Narrative Play are not going to apply to 30k, as 30k already has its own restrictions superimposed over the top of the basic 40k system. Just as 'unbound' didn't apply to 30k, neither will those two selections.

 

This is the 30k forum, and we have been largely removed from the insanity that is 40k's rules & lore. Our interests are by no means identically aligned. 7th > 8th removes the foundations upon which 30k was built. While I am by no means advocating mass panic or nerd-rage, we definitely have a right to be concerned. Not everybody is an Age of Sigmar fan.

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You're definitely right, it could possibly happen. Realistically though, what does Narrative Play offer 30k that we don't already have? Themed Missions, Rites of War, selecting an allegiance, Characters linked to each side we already possess in spades, and a setting where everything is strictly based off the lore. Having pre-planned lists just isn't FW's style - they don't do that, even in themed missions they prefer to leave things open with only minor recommendations and space for us to twist the setting to our homebrew lore if we desire it - and in Conquest we already possess character advance tables and a guideline for a detailed campaign. Subsequent books have added to that.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not too worried - if this is a catastrophe, my group can keep playing the old rules, and the books and models FW produce will be as brilliant as ever as long as their amazing team of writers, artists and sculptors keep doing what they've been doing for years now. I eagerly await more details on the changes, and most importantly FW's announcement of what they're going to do (a time period for FAQ's would be good, given that they just released an 80 pound book with lists 6 months before an edition change).

 

As I said above, my main concern is FW being unprepared for the change more so than anything else (7th ed was dumped on them without warning, and they haven't been aware of the 40k FAQ/didn't address it other than face to face at events). Hopefully GW's new attitude over the last year or so has also applied to their relationship with FW, and there's nothing to worry about.

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