[Iron Gauntlet 2017]The Swords of Coccium

[LancsHotpot90]

Thanks man, I appreciate it :)

[Conn Eremon]

Pretty good start, the models look beautiful and it's a nice spin on a throwaway line.

 

Couple things, you have their home world as Coccium, inside the Drakenfyr System. But the canon source you're pulling from is heavily inferring that the Knights Obstinate home world and the Drakenfyr System are two separated locations, that the Ork that assaulted one cannot also be the one that assaulted the other.

 

Secondly, there are some instances that seem a little too much on the nose. The Chapter Master of the Knights Obstinate, of the Imperial Fists line, is named 'ever hard.' The Chapter dealt a near-deathblow by the next Beast, is Founded in the wake of the original? They're certainly not any worse than some instances you find in canon, but they do draw the reader out of the work. The Knights Obstinate don't really need to have Orks be involved in their origins or tasks. Imagine if that was the case for the Crimson Fists.

 

 

II'd like to echo Draakur's comment, that we don't really see an entirely large amount of character coming from the Knights Obstinate as a Chapter, though we do learn much about the individuals. Much of what they are is rather generic Space Marine, and where they become more nuanced is still fully in the realm of generic Imperial Fists. Your response indicated you want to avoid special snowflake syndrome, and that's definitely something to avoid. But there's a difference between unique and distinct. You don't need to make the Knights Obstinate into something no other Chapter is, but it definitely helps to distinguish the Knights Obstinate from other Chapters.

 

One thing that can help is to tie a cultural identity to the Chapter, either ingrained within the Chapter psyche or based upon their home world. This can also help with the naming, which as it stands feels very, again, generic Ultramarines/Imperial Fists. My own preferred way to do this is to utilize Behind the Name's random name generator, either after selecting a cultural identity to base the Chapter off of or before, using the results I most like to lead me towards a shared cultural identity.

[LancsHotpot90]

Thanks for the fantastic and well thought feedback!

 

In regards to locating the home planet in the Drakenfyr system, I did this because reading this sentence:

 

"It cannot be the same ork that led the attack on the Drakenfyr system, and overran the Chapter planet of the Knights Obstinate."

 

It led me to interpret that that's where the planet WAS located. However, the sentence immediately afterwards that stated:

 

"Those actions were divided, as best we can tell, by mere weeks!"

 

So indeed, you're right in that these are separate locations, something I missed earlier, I'll come up with a different name for the system :)

 

As for the Chapter Master's name, I got the name from an actual historical figure;

Everard des Barnes, who was Grand Master of the Knights Templar between 1146-1149 it was never meant to be an amalgamation of the words 'ever hard'

 

Having the Chapter created in the aftermath of the war of the beast was to try and fit them in the grim, unforgiving setting of the galaxy, in the sense that, despite the fact they were created to help prevent another uprising, they still got steam-rolled along with what seems a significant amount of Imperial forces.

 

To address the identity and naming, the reason I think it feels like generic Imperial fists is because I'm more than likely drawing from similar sources to GW i.e. Looking up names of real Knights from history. And with them being a Fists sucessor, I feel there's not much wiggle room to deviate too much without either being far too similar to say the Black Templars or the Soul Drinkers. Instead, I've deviated from the parent legion by giving them a different chapter structure. The goal with these guys is to make them feelike a knightly order, but one that due to a huge defeat, is a shadow of what it was but they are, non the less, proud and determined to fight back against the tide of Orks and eventually take back key their Chapter world.

 

Giving them a more of an identity is definitely something I'm interested in however, it's something I've been thinking about quite a lot as it what I want to explore when writing the shirt story for the final challenge at the end of the year, so any and all further suggestions are very much appreciated :)

[Conn Eremon]

Good response, but it does show that sometimes intent is not always conveyed. The intent behind the Chapter Master's name is a good one, but it does immediately read like an example of the Iron Hands Primarch being named Iron Hands in Latin. At least for me.

 

Ultimately, I say don't feel so beholden to their Imperial Fist lineage that you feel restricted between the extremes of Black Templars and the Soul Drinkers. There are a whole host of other options out there where you can still keep to the common traits of the Seventh. For my Fist successor, I went with an oriental cultural identity, but I connected it to an Eastern Slavic naming convention, though I did sneak a bit of Al Bhed in there. I'm certainly not touting around my DIY as a prime example of how to do it right, just that you can look for some very unique ideas to base your work off of.

 

You do, however, have reasoning behind your choices and what character and culture you have given. While they do give me the impression of a Chapter that doesn't necessarily stand out, as I say all Chapters should, this is your Chapter and you certainly don't need to change anything drastic to suit me.

 

What I would perhaps do is look into a more specific example of what you have already based your Chapter off of. Not just historical Knights, but pick a group of a particular point in time and location, and see what you can do with their history and beliefs. It doesn't have to be only one, you create a melding of many, but finding something specific might stave off the generic.

[LancsHotpot90]

Yeah the whole 'ever hard' thing had completely gone over my head when I was writing these guys up XD

 

Thanks so much for the cc it's really helped, I'll do a bit more research into different knightly orders and have a look at what makes them individual.

 

Also thanks for the name generator link, that's gonna be very useful!

[Lysimachus]

Just as a little side point re the name, sometimes a simple way of avoiding the issues Conn (quite rightly) mentioned is just to '40k-ify' (or bodge :D ) the spellings?

 

So while Everard does just read as Ever Hard, changing it slightly to something like Everart, Everhart, Averhard, Averhart, etc makes it a bit less jarring to the reader?

Edited May 27, 2017 by LySiMachus

[LancsHotpot90]

Excellent suggestion! And one I'll definitely be using :) Now I'm torn between Everart and Everhart XD Edited May 27, 2017 by LancsHotpot90

[LancsHotpot90]

Hi all I've gone and updated the op with a new name for the chapter, and the fluff explaining why in a couple of paragraphs at the end. Also changed the chapter master's name to Everart.

 

Thanks for looking!