Charlo's Ad Mec - [Tournament Reports & Thoughts]

[Charlo]

++CHANNEL OPEN: OMEGA SANCTION. ONISSIAH'S WILL++

 

"Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl is injured and has been forced to retreat from the battlefield. Questoris Traitoris shall feel our wrath in later cycles..."

 

-------

 

Sadly, a loss against Death Guard and a Renegade Knight, 7-3 to them, with my forces eventually tabled!

 

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It started off close, but 3 Plaguburst Crawlers were just too much long range firepower to contend with when the robots couldn't reach out to touch them. Especially with an Arch-contaminator Daemon Prince nearby! Ultimately I was unlucky after I got a solid 11 wounds against the Knight in turn one (heavy arc rifles D6 damage baby!) And the rest of my shooting was just chipping off little chunks as opposed to any decisive damage.

 

The crawlers made quick work of my Kataphrons (both kinds), even Acquisition at any cost only saved one Breacher for a single turn.

 

My plan going in was to wipe his infantry (Cultists/ Poxwalkers) quickly with robots so he couldn't score and then worry about his firepower after and try to weather it. Only half worked!

 

Key learning in this one is deploying the robots in an excellent position, but then not moving them for fear of 5+ to hit, but left his main units out of my threat range.

 

I'll do some full reports of other games over the coming hours / tomorrow, with some photos.

 

Overall this puts me at 2W 2L, and considering I went for Highlander and my final opponent didn't, I did just fine! :D

[Stray]

Was it just a generic Knight, or a specific house?

 

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Well done overall though Charlo! 2 for 2 is a really solid result.

[Charlo]

Just one renegade knight, painted Nurgle but obviously no house rules!

 

Aye I'm happy considering I didn't go for cheese build or anything which is what my final opponent went for... :P

[Stray]

I was looking into using Nurgle daemons as screening units for my Knights. Small points investment for a fair amount of bodies which are a total pain to remove (as I'm sure you can attest to from that last game). 

 

Given the upcoming codex and the almost certain buffs it will bring, I'm seriously rethinking this though. It seems reasonable when you're just running vanilla Renegade Knights (given their 'bare bones' status), but there's one hell of a whiff of Stilton and Cheddar coming off that kind of concept when you're using units that tough, to hold objects and prevent charges against a unit with the firepower of a properly buffed Imperial Knight :/

[Charlo]

So as long as you do it fluffy, it's not *too* bad. The issue is with imperials using command point farms with mortars and the Kurov Aquilla...

 

Cultists and pox walker's didn't phase me or my robots mate ;) wiped all 60 of em out in 3 turns.

[Stray]

So as long as you do it fluffy, it's not *too* bad. The issue is with imperials using command point farms with mortars and the Kurov Aquilla...

 

Cultists and pox walker's didn't phase me or my robots mate wiped all 60 of em out in 3 turns.

 

Pox walkers are ok, I'm thinking more buffed up Plague bearers and the like. They can be dealt with, but it's slow going for the points they come in at.

 

You're not wrong though, fluffy is key.

[Charlo]

FINAL RESULT: 8 of 16!

 

(Though I'm counting it as 7th, as the guy in 7th got a free win from a no show and he was a very new player with a borrowed army...)

 

Pretty happy with the results considering some of the armies on show - 4/7 of the top armies had a Knight or multiple.

 

I think overall my army *needs* more CP and some tweaking on the Skitarii. Only 7 to play with left me wanting, but I couldn't really change up my list to keep Highlander so only a worry for harder competition.

 

Some CC punch would be nice (beyond the Breachers, but they hit on 5s so it's tough) but not sure what I'd remove to add it in.

 

Robots remain the MVP of the list offensively, 18 shots per bot is just so incredibly powerful with Cawl nearby.

 

More random thoughts to follow as it comes.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Charlo

[Prot]

Great job Charlo! Would you stay keep the Grav Destroyers over plasma?

 

Also... aside from deployment I’m curious on your thoughts against the Custodes.

[Charlo]

Great job Charlo! Would you stay keep the Grav Destroyers over plasma?

 

Also... aside from deployment I’m curious on your thoughts against the Custodes.

Thanks pal!

 

Excellent question!

 

So the Destroyers are rather contentious, I'm trying to think of what they had done in each battle now... Spew of thoughts below on the matchups and then a conclusion. In all games they were sat next to Cawl for rerolls and the robots for potential Elimination Volleys

 

VS CUSTODES

-1 to hit banner and poor positioning had me splitting my firepower to minimal effect in the early game (storm shields and minimal wounds negate a lot) however they did decent damage to his Grav tank with accelerator cannon (side note - that thing is incredible, best Custodes unit by far). The bulk actually helped them in Combat as they didn't lose many to an incoming shield Captain and did some solid overwatch wounds.

 

VS TAU

Very solid output and lead to a decent amount of wounds on the Riptide (though again the Kastellans did the real heavy lifting). Helped immensely in clearing out early forward stealth suits however. Both Plas and Grav did good work, being solid against all kinds of battlesuits.

 

VS RAVENGUARD

Power Armour doesn't help you against Destroyers. -1 to hit doesn't matter with rerolls. Enough said. Devastating.

 

VS DEATHGUARD

Admittedly due to some strong deployment from my opponent (and some, questionable from me) they were out of range against all but some Pox walker's turn one. They then got utterly savaged by Plaguburst Crawlers :(

 

CONCLUSIONS

I *really* liked the mixed unit to be honest. Due to 8th ed split fire you can target different things if need be.

S5 on the grav is enough to threaten anything due to volume of shots and d3 damage while plasma is a lot more swingy but guaranteed effective on an overcharge.

A mixed unit also means you can take casualties and remove the least effective weapon for the battle.

6 man in a unit is nailbiting for battleshock however. 3 lost in a turn and that 1/3 chance of failing and losing a 50pt+ model is very scary.

I'm tempted to try 3 and 3, as I never found myself giving them the 5++ from the Servitor maniple (that's for the tankier Breachers) and the +1 to hit can just be given to the most appropriate weapon.

[Jolemai]

By all accounts it was a great little tournament and a shame I couldn't make it. Glad you had a good time and keep that list handy next time you're down my way ;)

[Charlo]

By all accounts it was a great little tournament and a shame I couldn't make it. Glad you had a good time and keep that list handy next time you're down my way ;)

As long as there is a Bathams for me :D

[Charlo]

So with some time to think there are a few changes to the list I'd definitely try going forward:

 

Split the Breachers into two units of 3

Ultimately, the 5++ I gave them in some games didn't really save them that much and the little I did save was then thrawted in the battleshock phase. With an effective 2+ save from Shroudpsalm, it takes ap4 before that 5++ is useful. While 6 will benefit more from Acquisition at any cost more than 3, keeping the Servitor Maniple Dominus near them means I can keep them topped up - two units is probably harder to wipe than one as well (again due to battleshock).

 

Keep all Skitarii units at MSU

After multiple games with units of 5/8/10 man Skitarii, it's always the 5 man that end up doing the most work. Small enough to not be perceived a threat and still get some special weapons in, fill detachments, cap points and again; not die to battleshock. I found that with 8 men you tend to lose 5 or so and then even with a tether, that Ld of 7 just isn't enough to save them from a wipe - not to mention you then need to decide on whether to lose the special weapons, tether or alpha (guns vs LD basically).

 

Consider a Manipulus

While the Highlander restrictions and want of a servitor Maniple prevented me from bringing one, I'm seriously considering it in the future. The extra 6" range on Robots and Destroyers would be invaluable in a lot of situations. 42" heavy arc rifles on Breachers is also hilarious.

 

Neutron LAZOR Onagers are mandatory

Good lord this guy did work, it either looked scary and tanked turn 1 shooting from my opponent of casually ripped holes in things and peppered chaff with the Stubbers. LD aura is a nice bonus too. Again, Highlander prevented me from more than one but in future 2 or 3 will be in every list.

 

Cawl is tough! ...But not that tough!

Cawl's rerolls are incredible. Sitting between my robot and Destoryer castle he amplifies them way beyond what they should be able to do! He can also go in on some other units fairly easily - but beware leaving him exposed. Coldstar suits with triple Melta love to eat him, as do Dreadnoughts on the charge....

[Prot]

So with some time to think there are a few changes to the list I'd definitely try going forward:

 

Split the Breachers into two units of 3

Ultimately, the 5++ I gave them in some games didn't really save them that much and the little I did save was then thrawted in the battleshock phase. With an effective 2+ save from Shroudpsalm, it takes ap4 before that 5++ is useful. While 6 will benefit more from Acquisition at any cost more than 3, keeping the Servitor Maniple Dominus near them means I can keep them topped up - two units is probably harder to wipe than one as well (again due to battleshock).

 

Keep all Skitarii units at MSU

After multiple games with units of 5/8/10 man Skitarii, it's always the 5 man that end up doing the most work. Small enough to not be perceived a threat and still get some special weapons in, fill detachments, cap points and again; not die to battleshock. I found that with 8 men you tend to lose 5 or so and then even with a tether, that Ld of 7 just isn't enough to save them from a wipe - not to mention you then need to decide on whether to lose the special weapons, tether or alpha (guns vs LD basically).

 

Consider a Manipulus

While the Highlander restrictions and want of a servitor Maniple prevented me from bringing one, I'm seriously considering it in the future. The extra 6" range on Robots and Destroyers would be invaluable in a lot of situations. 42" heavy arc rifles on Breachers is also hilarious.

 

Neutron LAZOR Onagers are mandatory

Good lord this guy did work, it either looked scary and tanked turn 1 shooting from my opponent of casually ripped holes in things and peppered chaff with the Stubbers. LD aura is a nice bonus too. Again, Highlander prevented me from more than one but in future 2 or 3 will be in every list.

 

Cawl is tough! ...But not that tough!

Cawl's rerolls are incredible. Sitting between my robot and Destoryer castle he amplifies them way beyond what they should be able to do! He can also go in on some other units fairly easily - but beware leaving him exposed. Coldstar suits with triple Melta love to eat him, as do Dreadnoughts on the charge....

 

For the sake of debate, I'll put up my own thoughts on this and you let me know if you this is something  you might run into.

 

- Splitting Breachers. A big no-no for me. Unless you're list tailoring, there's too many armies that peel apart the unit in one go. Indirect fire is nasty on them, and even in cover, I don't find them -that- survivable. It also depends on the knowledge of your opponent. I find most people really don't know how much improved these guys are at this cost, and the Maniple Assistance.

 

For the record- I started out with dual 3 man squads after the point reduction. Against Tau, Eldar, Astra I found I'd lose a squad a turn, and become incapable of restoring them. Once a squad is done, the wiser opponents don't bother picking away at the other squad. Again there's a handful of armies or units that can 'easily' do this. If you're facing armies that can't really present this threat, it's a moot point.

 

- Skitarrii. Absolutely. What a pain it is to be burning CP to keep these guys on the table and they die to a stiff breeze.

 

- Manipulus. I played him for about 3-4 games when he first came out. He's just plain overcosted by a large amount. My advice is to punt him for an Assassin with the new rules.

 

- Neutron loadout. I used to play 3 all the time. Love the model, love the premise, love the rules. Then I played against Necrons (more often than probably the average person would, or should have to!) and that shield garbage is an absolutely bane to the Neutron lasers.... IF I could pick a damage of 1-3 it would be so much better. Also I hate the random shots. I've replaced them with other units. If I faced Knights more often they would be awesome though. It's probably a meta thing.

 

- Cawl is someone I use because I love the model and background. But he's really the biggest reason to take Mars but with the increase in anti character stuff.... he feels SO hard to keep alive lately. At the beginning of 8th I never really worried about him. Now? I bet 90% of the time he dies before it's over. (Tau commander fusions, Snipers, Eliminators, etc.)

[brother_b]

Just to keep the conversation going, my MSU kataphrons melted before (this Saturday the most recently) to intense fire.

 

I like 6 to 7 vanguard in a unit if I’ve got two special weapons. I keep 5 rangers and one special weapon. My thought is with a MSU vs larger squad if I take too many casualties either way I’m losing special weapons. Versus some shooting however the loss of 3-4 is just enough to let me bring my guns into play, even if I have to use my CP.

 

The other option is just MSU with one special weapon for all my Skitarii.

 

The Manipulis continues to be a let down for me as well. I love the model though. I need to work on a second TPD.

Edited May 27, 2019 by brother_b