Help with Deathwatch

[Herald of Magnus]

Hey there, so I'm recently starting a small deathwatch army however I'm really struggling. I thought painting them would be easy since they're just, well, you know, black. Yet how do you make the black look properly as though it's armour. I know some people have said about highlighting it but I'm not a very good painter and it doesn't seem to work too well. I had an idea to drybrush lightly silver to make it looked chipped etc? I'm not sure. I don't want to start ruining my models as I don't have many and don't want to strip them!

 

The GW video is focused on highlighting which is too difficult for me being a not so great painter?

[NiceGuyAdi]

Welcome to the tricky world of black! I've been working on my Raven Guard for over a year and I've still far from perfected it. But if you want to look into drybrushing, have a look at what LutherMax managed with his Death Company, his recipe is a little further down on the same page.

 

Once you've had a whirl with that, Major Gilbear wrote a very detailed approach to different techniques for getting black, which includes using silver to get a chipped effect.

 

There are umpteen threads and posts on painting black on this site alone, so what I've linked to is far from exhaustive.

[battle captain corpus]

Back in the day I used to speed paint Ravenwing, undercoat black, drybrushed a dark grey then washed with Nuln Oil.

 

BCC

[Herald of Magnus]

Oh wow them death company models look amazing! Thanks for the help, I'll think I'll try the dark grey highlight into the nuln oil wash since that seems to be what a wide range of people are trying :)

 

Thanks for the help, maybe you'll see a WIP thread up soon for them :)

[Herald of Magnus]

Sorry about the double post but I want to check on this - so with using gloss on my death watch if I spray them a matt black, then once dry spray them with a coat of black gloss, that will create a shiny armourish look to it. Would you recommend doing more to the armour than that or just carry on as normal picking out the silver detail etc?

[Claws and Effect]

I recommend against using gloss paint.

 

It has never worked out well in my experience. Edge highlights will give the illusion of an armor appearance. You don't even have to do them everywhere, just the areas light would be likely to illuminate.

[Dredmour]

if you want the glossy effect try using the Gloss versions of Citadel shades if that is the range of paint you use. They are designed to keep the shine on metallics, so I think drybrushing dark grey and applying just a gloss wash will help to make the highlights more subtle and get that sheen you're looking for without it looking overboard.

Another way to make black minis pop is to paint the joints a metallic instead of black, and then shade them with nuln oil gloss to get a rubbery joint look. It helps to break up and section off the dark armor.

It really depends on if you want a 'New' and pristine look or a dirty and rough look to the armor. There are loads of great tips online for black, its a fan favorite color!


Best regards,
Dredmour

[Major_Gilbear]

Sorry about the double post but I want to check on this - so with using gloss on my death watch if I spray them a matt black, then once dry spray them with a coat of black gloss, that will create a shiny armourish look to it. Would you recommend doing more to the armour than that or just carry on as normal picking out the silver detail etc?

In short, yes.

However, this is using automotive spray primers, paints, and lacquers. Different brands have different sequences/processes for layering up to a nice hard shine, and you should check them out specifically. Similar results can also be achieved with an airbrush.

Don't be fooled into thinking that spraying = easy though, because it still takes its own skill to get a good finish. If you are not very confident, I would suggest priming black, applying several layers of thinned black acrylic paint all over, and then applying two thin coats of gloss varnish. That's more time consuming that all-sprayed, but gives you a lot more control and is less likely to fill in all the details or go wrong.

However, there are also lots of other ways of painting black as well, as noted by the other posters above. What you may find is that gloss black looks a little odd against the other details painted in a more usual manner, in which case more traditional highlights are likely to look better.

Another (fairly unusual) technique to consider is this:

> Prime the model grey.

> Choose a fairly dark grey paint that would work well as a highlight colour, and paint it all over to get a nice solid coverage.

> Give the model a (thin) coat of gloss varnish.

> Next, apply a wash of gloss Nuln Oil, and use your finger to wipe off the paint from the more raised areas (clean your finger off on a clean damp rag as you go). The Nuln Oil wipes off the gloss areas more easily, and helps to brighten the highlight.

> Once the Nuln Oil is dry, you can repeat with a bit more Nuln Oil again to make it darker. Stop when you get the shade of highlighting that you like.

> Once dry, simply apply some thinned matte medium all over the model to return it to a nice flat non-reflective finish. Then do any details and weathering as normal.

I would suggest doing a test model to find out how many coats of coats of the gloss Nuln Oil you'll need, and to practice the technique a bit. It's unusual, but quite simple and effective. I also suggest that you apply-and-wipe areas as you go around the model, to avoid any of them drying before you wipe. Your fingers will also end up rather dirty, but they are also the best "tools" for this job - wearing gloves, or wiping with a tissue off the model, just doesn't work as well at all.

Finally, I'll leave you with one more observation. If you want to paint well, you will always be better off having patience and practising your painting skills. With enough patience you can paint anything (using any technique), and with enough practice you will get faster at it. People here on the B&C are very helpful and encouraging too, so please don't feel shy about your skills or sharing the results of your work.

Edit: spelling

[Herald of Magnus]

Wow thanks for the detailed reply! I'm testing gloss effects out now however my first model has come out a bit, shiny looking and rather tacky so I'm thinking I may have put too much gloss on, I'm going to test with a bit less now. The problem is near me I could only get gloss spray so for now it's all I've got to try really. I like the idea of what you said however I don't have any nuln oil gloss paint as of yet so I want to test it but will have to wait a small bit!

I did have a model that I'd sprayed grey with the idea of applying layers of nuln oil till it has a black look to it, if you think that's a good idea? I'm not too worried about time consuming since the army is small, I have a larger iron hands army which I go all out with batch painting and speed painting and whatnot. The only issue with highlights is yes I want to practice and get better, just not on my deathwatch models, again I Have some iron hands to practice on for that type of deal.

 

If I'm spraying clear gloss instead of gloss black would it make sense to spray the model black, pick out all details of silver etc and whatnot then spray the clear gloss onto it? Rather than priming the whole model with a gloss black (which I don't actually have anyway, just clear gloss).

[Major_Gilbear]

Wow thanks for the detailed reply! I'm testing gloss effects out now however my first model has come out a bit, shiny looking and rather tacky so I'm thinking I may have put too much gloss on, I'm going to test with a bit less now.

 

It's why I generally avoid using brush-on acrylic gloss actually - it takes forever to get a nice hard finish. Still, if you thin it with some clean water (about 25-30% water?) and apply it thinly, I find that helps.

 

Normally, I use a water-based polyurethane varnish, and that dries much harder and tougher. I still thin that too though! ;)

 

 

The problem is near me I could only get gloss spray so for now it's all I've got to try really. I like the idea of what you said however I don't have any nuln oil gloss paint as of yet so I want to test it but will have to wait a small bit!

 

Gloss spray can be heavy-handed, and is impossible to fix if it goes wrong. That's why it takes practice, the right weather conditions (or a specialist setup), and understanding of the product being used.

 

 

I did have a model that I'd sprayed grey with the idea of applying layers of nuln oil till it has a black look to it, if you think that's a good idea?

 

That works well, just might take a couple of extra coats of wash.

 

As an aside, this style of painting can be taken to a bit more of an extreme. You can start with a light grey, wash it with grey, wash it with dark grey, and then wash it with black. It takes a lot of coats, and you need to add various acrylic mediums to the paints for this to work, but you get a really nice low-effort effect. There's a non-B&C-suitable example here, where the long coats and the denim jeans were painted using this technique.

 

 

If I'm spraying clear gloss instead of gloss black would it make sense to spray the model black, pick out all details of silver etc and whatnot then spray the clear gloss onto it? Rather than priming the whole model with a gloss black (which I don't actually have anyway, just clear gloss).

 

You can do a lot of things in various orders, depending on what effect you want to end up with. :)

 

So if you want  a gloss black, then you need to either use a gloss black paint (best over a matte black undercoat), or a solid black basecoat that you gloss varnish over.

 

If you go the gloss varnish route, the sliver chipping can go on either before or after the varnish as you wish. It'll most probably be a bit shinier under the varnish, but that's up to you.

 

If you want to use a satin varnish rather than a gloss, that's also an option.

 

 

With respect to buying paint in general... Most "big" brands of acrylic miniatures paint are good, and nearly all are cheaper than Citadel paints. Again, it's up to you what you buy, but if availability and/or money are factors, it's worth keeping that in mind. :)

[Herald of Magnus]

OH wow! I love the painting on them models you've got there! I tried less of the gloss spray and it still looks tacky so I'm going to look at spraying grey then washing up to black. However that means I'll have to respray my models cause they're all black rn, or I'll just have to paint over it grey I suppose? Oh well! We will see. I really wish I had just stuck to my Iron Hands right now as it's getting a bit demotivating!

 

Edit: My first scheme was a grey drybrush with nuln oil over it, and on one hand I kinda like it but on the other I'm not so sure, it just looks a bit meh if that makes sense!   :(

[Major_Gilbear]

I do know what you mean! In the end, whatever gets you a result that you like is the "correct" answer. ;) Although I personally don't really drybush anything other than bases, I have seen some people's drybrushing efforts that have made me reconsider.

 

With respect to your DW models, if they are already black, why not try some highlighting rather than repainting them? For example, there's no reason that you couldn't do the chipped edges with a dark grey, and then add a few silver ones in key places over the top of the grey if you like. You don't really have much to lose, and you can always paint over them later if you don't like the result. :)

[Herald of Magnus]

OK I really like the effect of grey with the washes. I was going to go back over everything but then I remembered I wanted everything looking uniform and nice. I've sprayed them all grey again (it's gone on quite thin so no issues here) and I'm going to be getting to it now! Thank you so much for the help everyone and Major_Gilbear, I'll be doing a WIP blog for my Death Watch I'm sure as I'm really looking forwards to doing them and it might motivate me to help push on wards. (I could also use help identifying some of the chapter colours I'm unsure about from these shoulder symbols too).

[Major_Gilbear]

OK I really like the effect of grey with the washes. I was going to go back over everything but then I remembered I wanted everything looking uniform and nice. I've sprayed them all grey again (it's gone on quite thin so no issues here) and I'm going to be getting to it now! Thank you so much for the help everyone and Major_Gilbear, I'll be doing a WIP blog for my Death Watch I'm sure as I'm really looking forwards to doing them and it might motivate me to help push on wards.

You're very welcome, and I'm glad that you found a solution that you like!

(I could also use help identifying some of the chapter colours I'm unsure about from these shoulder symbols too).

Well, this is "Help with Deathwatch", so post them up and we'll help you name them.

Also, for reasons of ease/laziness of the various people who came up with chapters back in the day, be aware that some shoulderpads can be more than one chapter depending on how you paint them (for example Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists are the same but different colours).

[Claws and Effect]

Post pics of the shoulder pads you're unsure about and someone will identify them for you.

[Herald of Magnus]

Thanks very much! I'll get around to posting some up tomorrow around the same time I'll be getting a WIP thread up and going! There's only twenty or so marines in the army as of yet but I'm going to have to get it all painted and going!

[Major_Gilbear]

Actually, I've found a suitable photo, so I'll name them all and save you the trouble:

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/deathwatch-shoulder-pads.png

82 = Ultramarines

83 = Imperial Fists / Crimson Fists

84 = Blood Angels

85 = Space Wolves *

86 = Dark Angels

87 = Salamanders *

88 = Raven Guard / Hawk Lords / Knights of the Raven *

89 = White Scars

90 = Iron Hands

91 = Flesh Tearers

92 = Raptors / Black Consuls / White Consuls (could also be used for Mentor Legion) *

93 = Novamarines

94 = Minotaurs / White Minotaurs / Brazen Minotaurs

95 = Silver Skulls

96 = Brazen Claws / Iron Talons

97 = Black Templars

98 = Howling Griffons / Knights of Gryphonne *

* These pads are all reversed from their usual direction, as they are for the opposite pad then the usual Chapter shoulder pad (i.e., in the DW the pads on the right shoulder rather than the usual left shoulder).

In addition, you can always change the colours of the pads and icons to represent more chapters of your own invention.

Likewise, you can always shave part of the icons off to make different symbols (for example, removing the wings from the DA or BA shoulder pads to leave just the sword or blood drop), which will help to give you even more variation from the stuff in the DW kit.

Hope that helps.

[Herald of Magnus]

Thank you for the help Major! I've got one that I've almost finished now just needs touch ups and work on the shoulder pads. I am quite proud of it so far I just thought I'd give this update so you know I've not just blown off your advice! I know this isn't a WIP thread so I won't keep uploading these and that's probably everything now but here:

https://m.imgur.com/a/zQaC5

Do you think he looks OK? - I know the pictures not great, I'm afraid I have nowhere better to do them right now!

[Claws and Effect]

Looks fine so far.

 

Look forward to seeing the rest.

[Debauchery101]

An easy way also is to brush apply black paint. Rub the edges of armor plates to expose the grey plastic...sounds heretical but it works

[Debauchery101]

Rub isnt the best description...a putty knife with a dull edge to scrape is a better way of explaining.

[Debauchery101]

Primer paint from a can would require more scraping and may increase your chances pf gouging the plastic

[Ascanius]

There's also Duncan's Warhammer TV

video.