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Grey Knights and Custodes Inquiry


Aothaine

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Hey everyone!

 

So I've been contemplating making a return to this crazy expensive hobby. I want a really low model count army and with the recent craze with the Custodes I have been reading about it makes them seem pretty damn good. So I was wondering how some experienced Grey Knight players thought they might mesh into a Grey Knight list.

 

I have seen a GK list used on Table Top Tactics that I have been wanting to use but even that group says that the Grey Knights are in a pretty tight spot right now. 

 

I don't know much about the rules from the hardback book Grey Knights or the new Custodes. But is there a way to set up Custodes to shore up the weaknesses of the Grey Knights?

 

Even if that is not the case I will still most likely take this path as I think a bunch of grey with gold highlight dudes on the board with dudes that are gold with red highlights will be really eye catching and the golden boys might draw a lot of fire away from my knights in that instance.

 

I'm almost 100% sure that I would want to run terminator grey knights with 1-2 Nemesis Dreadknights then throw in 1-2 units of Custodes. Not sure about how the points will play out here.

 

So... here are some organized thoughts

 

1) What are the weaknesses of Grey Knights in the current meta?

2) Can Custodes be used to help shore up some of those weaknesses?

3) If I wanted to go with the Terminator Grey Knights detatchment that lets them arrive on first turn is there a way to get my Custodes in on that first turn deep strike goodness?

4) Is the Grey Knight character from the Triumvirate of the Primarch going to be a good addition? Can I even use him alone?

5) I really like the look of the Two Nemesis Falchions on the Terminator Grey Knights. Would this be something to consider over force hammers and daemon hammers? What are the drawbacks of using Falchions instead of Hammers?

 

 

I am sure I will have a bunch of other questions once I pick up the Grey Knight codex in a few paychecks and start collecting the miniatures. But I think that should do it for now.

 

Thank you to everyone that responds. Love this community and appreciate all the feedback!

 

~ Aothaine ~

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You can definitely do it. I don't know what the points implication of all that would be probably pushing 1500+

 

If you haven't been in the hobby for a while you will be jumping straight into hard mode with GKs. Not that it can't be done. Just let your opponents know youre learning and ask them to limit their grav weapons if possible.

 

Id also be cautious right now investing in rule books and codexes with the new edition right around the corner.

 

Magnetizing weapon load outs is always a good option too. Fortunately with terminators and NDKs this is fairly straight forward.

 

Friendly games shouldnt be ok. Don't expect to be winning tournaments though.

 

Plenty of other resources in this forum when it comes to loadouts. And some opinions on Custodes.

 

We expect to see a WiP thread with pics shortly! ;)

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1) What are the weaknesses of Grey Knights in the current meta?

Too much AP2 in the current meta, especially for a TDA heavy army that lacks access to Storm Shields. But that's about it. GK are a fun and fast paced army, if you play them fast and focus on fun. : )

 

2) Can Custodes be used to help shore up some of those weaknesses?

Kind of. Custodes do what GK do, only with access to Storm Shields in place of Psychic powers. They can be made to work quite well, but at the cost of less GK on the table. Less GK means less Warp Charges means less powers used.

 

3) If I wanted to go with the Terminator Grey Knights detatchment that lets them arrive on first turn is there a way to get my Custodes in on that first turn deep strike goodness?

No, Custodes would still be arriving on turn 2. : (

 

4) Is the Grey Knight character from the Triumvirate of the Primarch going to be a good addition? Can I even use him alone?

Voldus is a solid option, if you have a plan for him. He brings the new SM powers to the Gk, while coming in like a wrecking ball in melee. A standard GK Librarian with the Liber as your warlord and rolling on Sanctic is still cheaper, though. And Draigo is well worth the 1 Melta Bomb extra over Voldus.

 

5) I really like the look of the Two Nemesis Falchions on the Terminator Grey Knights. Would this be something to consider over force hammers and daemon hammers? What are the drawbacks of using Falchions instead of Hammers?

Falchions are statistically the best option after you take at least 1 hammer per 5 models.

 

SJ

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Sweet! Thank you everyone for the input and feedback!

 

I placed my first order and snatched up one of the last two Forgeworld 2017 Ixion Hale models. I don't think I will be painting this one first though. I'll start another thread for my WiP thread. 

 

I have looked into the point costs of some of the lists I might be building and holy cow you are right. Points disappear in this army fast.

 

Looking at running Draigo with a 5-man Custodian squad all with storm shields

Voldus will be running with the five man Paladin dicing things up on the other flank

then running two dreadknights charging the center and a terminator squad setup for ranged and moving to support either the right or left flank

 

HQ

(Warlord) Kaldor Draigo 

Grand Master Voldus

 

ELITES

Paladin squad x5 (Apothecary +Daemon hammer, Nemesis Banner + Psycannon, Two Nemesis Falchions x4, Melta Bombs x1)

 

TROOPS

Terminator Squad x5 (Psycannon x2, Daemon hammer, Two Nemesis Falchions x4)

Custodian Guard Squad x5 (Guardian Spear x2, Custodes Vexilla + Stormshield, Sentinel Blade + Stormshield x2)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Nemesis Dreadknight x2 (PF + Daemon Hammer, Heady Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter)

 

This is what I'm looking at so far. 1847 points in total. Still have a bunch of research to do though.

 

 

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Voldus is a solid option, if you have a plan for him. He brings the new SM powers to the Gk, while coming in like a wrecking ball in melee.

 

We can already take them on GK Librarians, so this is incorrect. Otherwise, Jeff is correct. 

HQ

(Warlord) Kaldor Draigo 

Grand Master Voldus

 

ELITES

Paladin squad x5 (Apothecary +Daemon hammer, Nemesis Banner + Psycannon, Two Nemesis Falchions x4, Melta Bombs x1)

 

TROOPS

Terminator Squad x5 (Psycannon x2, Daemon hammer, Two Nemesis Falchions x4)

Custodian Guard Squad x5 (Guardian Spear x2, Custodes Vexilla + Stormshield, Sentinel Blade + Stormshield x2)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Nemesis Dreadknight x2 (PF + Daemon Hammer, Heady Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter)

 

Just a note that the Custodes would need to go in an Allied detachment, as they're not actually Troops in a NSF. Very minor point though. 

 

That's about as good as it gets for 1850. Custodes are a bit of a double edged sword for us. They're much better than Paladins in the same bodyguard role, but they eat into our points just as hard while bringing no warp charge. So for Deathstar purposes they're better, but if you wanna bring multiple threats its better to go pure. 

 

I actually don't rate Voldus, I think he's overcosted by about 40 points. Two Mastery 2 Librarians with hammers are cheaper, dilute enemy fire and bring more powers to bear (especially if they're rolling on different Disciplines). 

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I actually don't rate Voldus, I think he's overcosted by about 40 points. Two Mastery 2 Librarians with hammers are cheaper, dilute enemy fire and bring more powers to bear (especially if they're rolling on different Disciplines). 

 

 

 

The main reason I'm bringing him is ML3, built in relic, and thunder hammer striking at initiative. I think he will be the guy I send against elder/tau walkers.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how the Custodes come into play when they are attached to Kaldor Draigo. Will they come in with the NSF deep strike rules? Or will I need to hope for a good roll post turn 2? Or would it be better to just start them on the board and gate them with Draigo?

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I'd put Voldus with the Custodians and Draigo with the pallies - Draigo can tank str8 hits for the pallies because of his eternal warrior rule, whilst the Custodians already have EW and shields, so they can protect Voldus.

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The main reason I'm bringing him is ML3, built in relic, and thunder hammer striking at initiative. I think he will be the guy I send against elder/tau walkers.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how the Custodes come into play when they are attached to Kaldor Draigo. Will they come in with the NSF deep strike rules? Or will I need to hope for a good roll post turn 2? Or would it be better to just start them on the board and gate them with Draigo?

 

He just has 'Lore Master' warlord trait, not the Domina Liber. Your issue there is how to deliver him without dying. 

 

No, only Grey Knight faction units in the Nemesis Strikeforce detachment benefit from 'Rites of Teleportation'. GW have outright stated in our FAQ that if you attach characters to say a unit of GKT, or attach a GK Librarian to say Custodians, neither can be Deepstriked Turn 1. They have to be all GK or it doesn't work. So yeah, start on table and 'Gate' into position. 

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Aeothane,

 

I have used Custodes with my GK a few times and did one of those games up as a battle report with pictures on the forum. If you go to my GK thread which is linked in my signature, you can find it there and you'll get an idea of how they can fit in.

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Start them on the board with Dragio and gate. They wont be able to use NSF rules

 

Gotcha! Thanks a bunch!

 

I'd put Voldus with the Custodians and Draigo with the pallies - Draigo can tank str8 hits for the pallies because of his eternal warrior rule, whilst the Custodians already have EW and shields, so they can protect Voldus.

 

This is something I had not considered but will be doing so now. Thank you. One thing that does concern me is that if Voldus does not get Gate then the Custodians and Voldus are going to be stuck slogging it across the field. Perhaps I should just put Voldus and Draigo with a ten man Custodian squad and spread them out so I can do multi charges into units. Say I have the Squad below.

 

(Warlord) Grey Knight Librarian (ML:3, Domina Liber Daemonica, Nemesis Warding Stave, Storm Bolter, Melta Bombs)

Draigo

Voldus

Custodians x10 (Vex+Shield, Sword+shieldx3, 6 spears)

 

Start the deathstar on the board, gate them into position.

Only need to get four psychic powers off a turn. 

Gate, Hammerhand, Sanc, Force. They are all warp charge 1 I believe. 

 

If I am correctly remembering this in 7th ed you generate warp charges by rolling a d6 and adding it to your entire mastery level on the table. So....

With this setup I would have 8+d6(+1 more for the mandatory extra troop choice that will be in the GK list)

 

Now this unit would have to start on the board and is HUGE so will be somewhat difficult to hide but the unit should be a tough nut to crack and I should be able to place it far enough out of range that my opponent won't be able to hammer it with too much damage on the first turn if I fail to roll first turn or seize the init. Even if I roll a 1 on the D6 for warp charge generation(which in this instance I kind of hope I would) I would have 10 warp charges to cast four warp charge 1 psychic powers. Pretty good odds imho.

 

Also, can a unit benefit from more than one blessing that modifies the same stat? Can a unit benefit from multiple blessings?

 

 

 

 

 

Aeothane,

 

I have used Custodes with my GK a few times and did one of those games up as a battle report with pictures on the forum. If you go to my GK thread which is linked in my signature, you can find it there and you'll get an idea of how they can fit in.

 

I will be heading over there now to see how you have used them Prot. Thanks a bunch for letting me know!

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In my regular NSF list, I run Draigo, a Liber Libby as warlord rolling on Sanctic, a full GKT squad, a full Interceptor squad, and 2 NDK. If the Libby rolls Gate, I combat squad the GKT and let Daigo Gate one while the Libby Gates the other. If the Libby does not roll Gate, he and Draigo take one of the GKT squads while the other is reserved for Deep Strike. This lets me move aggressively on turn 1.

 

With Voldus, I'd recommend something similar in that you plan on Gating the Custodes via Draigo, but can chose to Gate that Pallies if Voldus gets Gate while reserving the Troop choice to Deep Strike. Or fish for Gate on the Libef Libby. Either way tou have options.

 

SJ

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Jeff, do you ever have issues with gated units scattering? I sure have, so ive stated taking 2x5 units of interceptors with teleport homers. Bit more expensive but the surety is nice, since we play with a lot of terrain.
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I've been deep striking units for a couple decades now, there is a technique to it that reduces problems. Never deep strike units larger than 7 models of the same base size, and if you have to place near a wall place the first model no closer than one base width from the wall. Deep striking is pretty safe this addition.

 

And yes, I use to use Homers when Gate could be justified as being able to use GK Homers. But these days I don't both, as Gate can't use them and I mostly Gate.

 

SJ

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I think that was in the FAQ one way or the other.

Similarly with what happens with gating deep strike mishaps.

For the life of me I can't remember where I read it, but I'm positive it has something to do with there being a difference between Deep Strike and Deep Strike Reserve, or something to that effect...

 

I know Deathwatch has a special item that allows no scatter from Deep Strike whereas ours say Deep Strike Reserve =(

 

Edit: after looking at the codex it says Deep Strike for our locator beacons so disregard my misinformation, sorry!

 

Double Edit: Teleport homers say Deep Strike Reserve. I guess I wasn't off. Our vehicles have access to locator beacons for Deep Strike.

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I've been gating draigo and his mates about using shunting interceptors with teleport homers.

The wording seems vague to the point of nitpicking, but that's 7th ed for you.

 

I guess I'll rejig my list. 

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