simison Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Flippin' heck. I'm going on the basis that we're "setting" ours a couple of decades after the Insurrection. I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 By the way: AS we are setting out Champions for 40k up, what about other things like the Pharaos which pures the tyranids Into the Galaxy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Might the psychic trauma associated with the Webway collapse, death of Madrigal and expansion of the Maelstrom all contribute to that? As they're all pretty much facets of the same catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 You mean all that togheter has the same power to lure the tyranids Into the Galaxy? Will they arrive then in tyran vor do we need to rename the tyranids then because their Name was given to them after the first encounter on tyran. Tyran was on the way to Sotha if I rememberr correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Keeping Tyranids will be more convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 I agree that we should keep it to Tyranids, but what does happen to Pharos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 In canon it gets activated in a battle between the Ultramarines and Night Lords. It could still get fired up by the Dune Serpents, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Yeah, that's a possibility. Also, I am so frustrated with the Ultramarine timeline in the new Codex: Space Marines. They have one section titled M34-M40, but then are followed up by a section titled M37-M38. What's worse is how Marneus Calgar is declared a chapter master in this latter period. Are they serious? No chapter master, not even the venerated Dante has held the post for 2,000 years. And the lore explicitly states that Dante is supposed to be the oldest! Back off Smurfs! But, unless I'm incredibly mistaken, the worst piece of lore on this one page deals with the Daemon Prince M'kar. The timeline sets up M'kar to be this on-going rivalry between the Ultramarines and M'kar. Okay, that's fine. The Blood Angels have their on-going bloodfueld with Ka'Bandha. Here's the controversy. It's flat out stated that Calgar is able to kill M'kar...permanently. Guys, has it been established that Daemon Princes can experience perma-death, and I'm just clueless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Yes and no. Calgar was able to kill M'kar permanently by using a knife which was retrieved by Uriel Ventris from Remus Ventanus' grave. Long story short, here are some quotes from Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M%27kar): After weeks of being besieged in the ancient fortress of Castra Tanagra by M'kar's daemon army, the defending Ultramarines reached their lowest ebb when Chief Librarian Varro Tigurius was finally overcome by weariness, and the psychic barrier he had erected around the fortress failed. M'kar arrived in person to finish Calgar. Calgar was nearly overwhelmed, since M'kar was able to draw limitless power from the Indomitable, but Tigurius suddenly rallied and unleashed a psychic burst that drove M'kar back and severed his connection to the star fort. Calgar rallied the 1st Company for a final charge against the daemons. Calgar was nearly defeated by M'kar, when reinforcements from the Ultramarines' 2nd and 4th Companies arrived, led by Captains Sicarius and Ventris, the latter of whom had retrieved the Shard of Erebus from Captain Ventanus' tomb on Calth. Uriel pronounced M'kar's mortal name aloud, and threw the Shard to Calgar, who stabbed M'kar in the throat. The power of the Shard was enough to destroy M'kar's essence, a True Death that destroyed the Daemon Prince once and for all. So yeah, it is possible. And it's a thing since McNeil wrote that stuff years ago. Usually, I'd say that demons could only be killed within the Warp...like...in every other franchise I know. But it seems that by making use of a powerful warp artifact and a daemons true name, you'll be able to get rid of it. But as it seems, the shard of erebus was a athame (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Athame#The_Shard_of_Erebus), which appeared to once being part of a Anathame weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Well, I learned something new. Even Warp spirits can die. EDIT: A few things I've gleaned from the new codex. GW seems to have gone out of their way to find ways to limit the Dropsite Massacre Loyalist chapters. I remembered that Vulkan has always asked for an exception from breaking down his Legion because of how hard the Salamanders were hit, but now they've added that Nocturne has never been able to support large numbers of Salamanders. Hence, the Salamanders never really grow over 10,000 years. But, if that's the case, how was Nocturne able to support an entire Legion? Likewise, the Raven Guard, despite the successors, now appear to be small and in decline because their gene-seed is degrading, which I didn't remember from before. The Iron Hands are now a bit of a pariah and don't see widespread successors because they're more likely to be under Inquisitorial investigation as opposed to successor review. Minus the Salamander numbers plot hole, I like them for the most part, adds a bit more. Also, I'm surprised that the Imperial Fists don't maintain a permanent garrison on Terra as implied by the text. Edited August 19, 2017 by simison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Well, I learned something new. Even Warp spirits can die. Depending on how much we want to treat Fantasy Flight's stuff as canon (I personally lean in favour of canon given just how in-depth it goes into Imperial society and other areas), there are other ways of permenently killing daemons, most of them incredibly dangerous and/or costly to the user. For example, one pyromancy power burns the user's soul to create a flame that burns across dimensional barriers, and can snuff out even daemons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 Well, I learned something new. Even Warp spirits can die. Depending on how much we want to treat Fantasy Flight's stuff as canon (I personally lean in favour of canon given just how in-depth it goes into Imperial society and other areas), there are other ways of permenently killing daemons, most of them incredibly dangerous and/or costly to the user. For example, one pyromancy power burns the user's soul to create a flame that burns across dimensional barriers, and can snuff out even daemons I appreciate the info, and it does give me ideas to work with. Alright, I'll retract my last complaint against the codex. I don't suppose, Talonair, there's a handy, easy-to-access source for the Fantasy Flight fluff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 PDFs of all of all of the FFG RPGs will be made available quite affordably soon if I'm not mistaken. simison 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 A lot of the stuff on the WH 40k wikia comes from Fantasy Flight's stuff. Other than that, I can answer specific questions. There's a LOT of stuff about various rituals etc (the entire :cussin Haarlock Legacy for instance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Plus given that discussing xenos is allowed now (unless I had a fever dream), the Yu'Vath give a VERY interesting option for an incredibly dangerous xenos race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 We are now allowed to discuss xenos on B&C and do plan to implement them into BotL. As for specific questions, I have two right now. One, what's the biggest/strongest daemon that's been killed? So far, I've seen a daemon prince that's been killed, but has anyone killed a greater daemon? Is there even a theoretical ritual/method to slay one? Two, what's the Yu'Vath? Can they field armies? Talonair 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Technically; Asuryan is the biggest Warp entity to be destroyed that I can think of; but he was killed by pre shard C'Tan so… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Technically; Asuryan is the biggest Warp entity to be destroyed that I can think of; but he was killed by pre shard C'Tan so… *facepalm* Right. All of the Eldar gods would count. In this setting, with enough power, even gods will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 You mean, only FALSE gods can and will die. The Emperor is eternal! Praise be! MikhalLeNoir and simison 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 It's actually had me thinking about known 40k Gods or godlike beings, being higher dimensional beings, like they're are obvious parallels; like say the Warp, is a virtually perfect representation of a higher dimensional space, since time acts like a physical space, and actual space-time or the 3rd dimension has little bearing. So what about perpetuals? Because the two most powerful perpetuals Vulkan and The Emperor are for all accounts truly immortal, kill them anyway and it's just a reset, even with an Anathema it's just slowing that process. Or how about Old Ones, they're seemingly all knowing, and while able to exist in three dimensions they seem tied to archaic Akashic field type concepts, which could exist in 2 dimensional paradoxes. And C'Tan are purely three dimensional and so on. While it has little bearing on our project, it does give me a curious thought on if 40k's Gods are tied to something like the 11 dimensional unified theory; and the Emperor belonging to meta or Omniversal space, hence why he's the singular powerhouse of 40k. Not really important just fascinating to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 And here my head exploded.....I love thinking excercises like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just to mention, I'm currently reading Guy Haley's Crusaders of Dorn. In one of its stories, Helbrecht and the Black Templar fight within the Ghoul Stars against a xenos race known as the cytos fiends. Those xenos seem to be (assumption of their Master of the Forge Jurisian) from another dimension as well, only entering "our" realm when reproducing. So there are already possibilities mentioned in canon. We could expand upon them. Something like Star Trek's species 8472 invasion or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 It's something I've wanted to explore; and I've made hints that Daer'dd made The Dragon very capable in terms of inter-dimensional travel and is just a weaponized particle lab. In a way it correlates my professional life as someone in Physics, we've had this conversation(in the field) going for about two years now about how close we're getting to the end of physics (at least in our Universe) and the general consensus is we're near the end. But with 40k Level tech, the possibility of not just knowing, but being able to manipulate those concepts could make for such cool story basis'. It's just not the easiest to approach because Grimdark, good tech seems too hopeful to some, but I'm brewing up stuff for 40-42nd millenium Botlverse, that could open a very fun can of worms, now that I have two months of down time I hope to be far more heavily involved again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 We are now allowed to discuss xenos on B&C and do plan to implement them into BotL. As for specific questions, I have two right now. One, what's the biggest/strongest daemon that's been killed? So far, I've seen a daemon prince that's been killed, but has anyone killed a greater daemon? Is there even a theoretical ritual/method to slay one? Two, what's the Yu'Vath? Can they field armies? Yea, the Eldar gods would be the most powerful ones straight up killed to the best of my knowledge. As for methods, there's the aforementioned pyromancy power, plus I vaguely remember reading somewhere that if you trap a daemon within a shrinking Geller field you can basically crush it into oblivion? As for the Yu'Vath, in FF canon they're an alien empire encountered by the Imperium in M.38. They worshipped the Warp itself (rather than any of the gods) and built an empire on dark sorcery and soul-slavery. They primarily use slave armies, but do field their own technology; most notably, their Dark Energy constructs, things created out of warp matter and their dark technology Another interesting piece of tech to note is their Rupture Cannons, macrobatteries that fire shells into the warp, with the warheads reappearing in Realspace just before they strike their target. Sounds very similar to the Abyssii's Douvior systems (wasn't my original intention, however if we do indeed include the Yu'Vath...) http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Yu%27Vath More information there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Thought - do we eventually want a Sapphire Prince-like daemon born of Daer'dd's death? Minus the wanky fluff that resulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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