Micro Set/Sol Problem

[Dark Serpentine]

Hey guys, 

 

Had a quick search on the thread and couldn't see anyone else having this issue, but my micro set/sol seems to be eating my paint! :(

I think its the Sol in particular that seems to be doing the damage. It starts of my turning my finished paint very milky looking, when i carefully roll a cotton bud / Q tip over the decal to remove excess Sol, it sometimes picks up flecks of paint. Kinda annoying when you spend ages getting the surface looking just how you want it.

 

All my models have had 4-5 coats of Humbrol Clear Gloss Varnish, through an air brush, allowed plenty of drying time before the decals go on (like a week).  Yet still the paint beneath is flecking off. 

 

I use the Micro Set to position the transfer and allow it some time to soften the decal. i then brush a couple of coats of the Micro Sol on to straighten out the wrinkles, drying  in between, until i'm happy.

 

Most have gone on ok, with great results, although the more i seem to do, the more milky the finish..with eventually some paint coming off on the latest few.

 

is there anything i'm doing wrong?? And does anyone know if there is something i can do to fix the milky look?  

 

Cheers. 

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Hey mate, sounds like an annoying result. My first impression is that there is some breach or solvent resistance inadequacy of the varnish you're using. I've not used that varnish myself so am not certain.

 

I would maybe do a trial on a bit of sprue scrap - do your paint colour, have one piece that you've airbrushed with varnish, another hand painted (in case the coat thickness in airbrush isn't thick enough) and see what happens when you apply the solvent. If it still happens after that I'd maybe try a different varnish and see if it makes a difference. I'm sure there will be others with more experience with that combo of varnish and decal sol and set.

[Studio Silvernale]

MicroSol uses acetic acid to soften the decal, and it will dissolve paint if its not fully sealed.

[Ovidius Incertus]

A problem with the varnish?

 

I've used both Sol and Set widely with 'Ard Coat, Vallejo gloss varnish, Future floor polish and even the gloss that is natural to Tamiya clears and have never had any issues at all.  Compared to other solvents I've hit these same gloss finishes with, what is essentially vinegar seems weak in comparison.  With 4 or 5 coats of varnish, seems like it should be pretty bulletproof.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I have had Micro Sol "melt" or semi-strip paint when it dripped on the unprotected parts, however, it worked flawlessly, for over 10+ applications when used on a surface covered in Citadel 'Ardcoat.

 

Combined with the "milky" portion, unless you are using it on a white miniature, my guess is the Humbrol varnish is to blame. Either the Micro Sol is melting the Humbrol varnish (thus allowing it to eat at the paint underneath, and the milky stuff is probably the Humbrol varnish itself) or Humbrol varnish just isn't strong at all to begin with. It may also be because you used an airbrush, so even though you applied 4-5 layers, this is still less protection in terms of a single paintbrushed layer, since airbrush atomizes the varnish so finely. It could be that your varnish layer is simply too thin. If using thicker coats of varnish is not an option, I would suggest looking into a stronger, more resistant varnish brand.

 

Humbrol really shouldn't be that weak though, it's enamel isn't it? Maybe you might need to upgrade to a lacquer gloss.

[Stoic Raptor]

I'd cast another vote for it being a varnish issue.  I've never had an issue with Army Painter Anti-Shine or Vallejo Gloss Varnish, brushed on.  I'd agree that airbrushing varnish may not give a solid topcoat.

[Brother Nihm]

I never varnish before using it and have never seen the issue.

Could you do a test on a piece without varnish and report back?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I've used Micro Sol/Set for a long time, even before I found out it's best to gloss coat before applying decals, and never had it do what you're describing. How old is the varnish you used and how old are the decals?

[Shrieker]

I use microsol on unvarnished citadel paints and never experienced any issues - so would lean towards varnish being the culprit, or any paint addition eg retardant, medium etc.

[Dark Serpentine]

Cheers for the input guys. I have heard that some varnishes can go a bit milky in some cases, so makes sense. Since it's only a few models that it's happened to, it could just be I didn't give these guys enough varnish or the spray layers are too thin like what was mentioned.

 

When I'm next back in the hobby seat I'll do a little test and see how it goes. Thanks again.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Just throwing my two cents in--I also use the 'sol extensively but use it directly on unvarnished citadel paint.  No problems.  I'd say the varnish is the problematic factor based on what you've described.

[Major_Gilbear]

Just throwing my two cents in--I also use the 'sol extensively but use it directly on unvarnished citadel paint.  No problems.  I'd say the varnish is the problematic factor based on what you've described.

 

The varnish, or how it's applied. I think brushing it on would give a more solid "impervious" layer than the sprays, and that would probably help. With a spray, you risk creating microscopic "pockets" or pores that very thin fluids can get into/through due to the way the droplets land and build up on the model's surface.

 

Acetic acid is basically vinegar, so unless you're practically soaking the model in it, it shouldn't have any issues with properly-varnished models.

[Semper Fortis]

Or... how old are your MicroSet & Sol? I've never had either eat paint, but I had an experience with them getting milky using some I had stored in a move. Don't know if it was the age or the fact that they got hot in storage.

[Stoic Raptor]

I've had mine for about 5 years, maybe longer, and they have yet to go bad.  I use them frequently.

[Semper Fortis]

Was probably the heat then. Worth considering. :shrug

[SymbolOfEight]

Just to chuck in my experience, i used citadel ardcoat on my ravenwing landspeeder pilots. applied the transfers and then had this melting problem. i have actually been scared to use it again....

[ShinyRhino]

I use a brush on gloss varnish from the art store (Liquitex) under my transfers. The Sol will cause it to go milky if I put too much on and it pools, but the varnish dries and resets as long as I don't poke at it while it's soft.