What have your Raven Guard done lately?

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm really liking what Ex Tenebris can do. I think I may work on an LT conversion for that.

[MajorNese]

Even if no characters are present - 3 shots AP-3 2D with that range are worth it nonetheless. The usual MC stalker doesn't do nearly as much.

[Dracos]

I'm really liking what Ex Tenebris can do. I think I may work on an LT conversion for that.

 

Me too. I'm adding Marksman Honors for D3 damage and rerolling 1s. Going to use the Shadowspear Lt. if my eBay purchase pans out. I think I can get the bits I need off the Eliminator box set if I'm looking at the sprue correctly.

[MajorNese]

 

I'm really liking what Ex Tenebris can do. I think I may work on an LT conversion for that.

 

Me too. I'm adding Marksman Honors for D3 damage and rerolling 1s. Going to use the Shadowspear Lt. if my eBay purchase pans out. I think I can get the bits I need off the Eliminator box set if I'm looking at the sprue correctly.

The WL trait was changed in the codex - it no longer applies to relics. And grants no rerolls any more. It's just +1D, that's it.

 

The only model it makes any kind of sense on is the phobos captain...

[Dracos]

Bumming me out Nese ;) now I need to figure out if I need a Phobos Lt at all or not. Points were perfect too :(

[Bluflash]

Phobos Cap with Korvidie Bolts and a LT with Ex Tenebris replaced a squad of Eliminators for me, freeing up more points (and a Heavy slot) for Dev Cents.

[MajorNese]

Ex Tenebris is still worth it, no question. The one game I used it, it killed primaris across the board while moving, that's hardly ever a bad thing. And reliably killing characters with a model that can't be targeted...yeah, I'll stick with that guy.

[Nusquam]

Ex Tenebris is finding it's way into both my Raptors and Consuls lists every time.

 

Another practice game this weekend. I'll share any insight

 

Edit: phone posting is hard and easy to lose yourself in tabs

[duz_]

Let's move the tactics to the appropriate threads ;)

[Dracos]

What have your Raven Guard done lately?

 

Well .... we started a Painting Event last week called Corax Command 2019. For all of you yet to make a pledge in celebration of the Supplement .... that Shadow you feel on the edge of your vision .... is Corax keeping an eye on the slackers ;)

[Archon_77]

Played in a local team tournament this past weekend with a Space Wolves partner.  He provided most of the assault punch with me providing backfield/gunline and some surprise elements with the ability to move a unit ahead due to Shadowmaster

 

Here's the list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [31 PL, 503pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ [13 PL, 211pts] +

 

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 130pts]

 

Lieutenants in Phobos Armor [5 PL, 81pts]

. Lieutenant in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 81pts]

. . Occulus Bolt Carbine and Bolt Pistol [6pts]: Grav-chute [2pts], Master-crafted occulus bolt rifle [4pts]

 

+ Troops [18 PL, 292pts] +

 

Intercessor Squad [10 PL, 162pts]: Auto Bolt Rifle [9pts]

. 8x Intercessor [136pts]

. Intercessor Sergeant [17pts]

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]

. Scout Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle [2pts]

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle [52pts]: 4x Sniper rifle [8pts]

 

Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]

. Scout Sergeant [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle [2pts]

. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle [52pts]: 4x Sniper rifle [8pts]

 

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [26 PL, 497pts] ++

 

+ No Force Org Slot +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ [6 PL, 143pts] +

 

Captain [6 PL, 143pts]: Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Master of Ambush, Master-Crafted Weapon, Storm shield [10pts], The Armor of Shadows, Thunder hammer [40pts], Warlord

 

+ Heavy Support [20 PL, 354pts] +

 

Centurion Devastator Squad [12 PL, 210pts]

. Centurion [70pts]: Grav-cannon and grav-amp [20pts], Hurricane bolter [10pts]

. Centurion [70pts]: Grav-cannon and grav-amp [20pts], Hurricane bolter [10pts]

. Centurion Sergeant [70pts]: Grav-cannon and grav-amp [20pts], Hurricane bolter [10pts]

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt sniper rifle [3pts], Camo cloak [3pts]

. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper [48pts]: 2x Bolt sniper rifle [6pts], 2x Camo cloak [6pts]

 

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]

. Eliminator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt sniper rifle [3pts], Camo cloak [3pts]

. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper [48pts]: 2x Bolt sniper rifle [6pts], 2x Camo cloak [6pts]

 

++ Total: [57 PL, 1,000pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 

 

That phobos LT had Ex Tenebris.   

 

We did well overall with ITC rules and scoring we took second in a three round tournament.  Teams had to share a keyword. We ended up doing well enough the first round to get a bye in the second so ended up fighting two different tyranid lists.

 

Quick and dirty of round 1:   Played against an alpha strike nids "team" (In reality we have a WAAC player in our meta that "couldnt find a partner" so he brought two 1000 point lists and refused to pair with the other nids player because "he's not very good and I play to win")  Two super units of genestealers that had 40" of threat through their shenanigans and four big carnifexes with one brain bug.  Also a deepstriking giant bug thingy that causes mortal wounds when it pops out.  There were a few other elements but I dont know much about xenos so I couldn't tell you much more. 

We had long table edge deployment which heavily favored him and ITC mission #2 (Three objectives, one in the mid and one in each players zone) which also was a big plus to him.  I put our objective as far back into our zone as was legal and on the right flank. 

 

As I had played him and this list a few times before, I kept everything back (he went first) hoping to shoot up whatever he brought forward and burned my warlord trait to take my smash capt and shrike to the far right flank hoping to countercharge the genestealers at about 20" before they could lunch my Eliminators and Devcents, and to defend the Objective somewhat.  Then inflitrated a unit of Scout Snipers in front of Shrike and Smash Capt (REALLY need to come up with a name for him, and love his model)  in the hopes of screening and getting a bead on the midfield objective.  To my dismay, our opponent totally ignored the Sons of Russ and targeted only me.  I discovered the abilities of Genestealers to tie up multiple units, and found by the bottom of the first shrike, smash and my scout snipes all tied up with the genes.  Shrike died without fighting back and I lost three snipers with 2 wounds put on Smash.  Funnily enough, the genestealers didnt do much damage themselves, but he had a strategem or physic power (forget which) that causes mortal wounds on my units for damage they do to his... and that HURT. 

Long story short with him collapsing our right flank and my partner not really being able to take midfield with his wolf calvary units the game was effectively over turn 2, but with ITC we did all we could to score points.  We also lucked out a bit that his list/tactics were based around tabling everyone and that caused him to crazy overextend and ignore objectives, allowing us to score some points before being tabled totally in the top of the 5th.  Lessons learned from game one which for me was game five of this edition and three with new codex:

 

1)  Screwing up Shadowmaster can really hurt.  More evidence of winning the deployment phase being essential to doing well and positioning being KEY for RG winning.  I should have put Shrike and Smash in his back field to pick off the brain bug and a few of the fexes before they ended up munching on Wolf Calvary.  OR I should have stuck with my original plan of moving up the dev cents... I underestimated both their killing power and durability, as well as the mobility of shrike being wasted if he gets tarpitted/alpha struck.

 

2)  Don't.  Panic.   I saw all those genestealers deploy and though "I MUST do something about them".  In reality I should have used my chaff units (snipers) as chaff and screened off my objective, and shot them to death turn two.  

 

3) As discussed (THANK YOU COMMUNITY) Eliminators are AMAZING for us.  Every character he had was dead by turn three while the eliminators (with Ex Tenebris Lt.) were safely on floor three of ruins in our Right Mid deployment zone having a flat field day with mortal wounds and Mortis rounds. Giving the Super Snipers rerolls was also very effective.  

 

We scored well enough by taking advantage of his overextension and unwillingness to play the mission to earn a bye in round 2, so on to round three.  

 

Three was bugs again, but a more balanced take all comers style list as opposed to the assault everyone and be REALLY good at killing only Marines list of the first one.  Once again a single player playing 2 1000 pt. lists.  It had the 2 units of genes as well, but some artillery style units (BIG GUNS growing out of their skulls how cool!) and a unit of 5 smite battery psychic dudes with a flyrant and five 20 bug units of shooty gribbiles.  Also included the brain bug thingy, and the deepstriking mortal wound causing big bug.  ITC mission 6 had us with 5 objectives in an diamond pattern with three in a line midfield and one in each teams deployment zone.  Rolled Short table edge deployment which was HUGE as we had 2 turns of shooting before the bugs reached us.  He won the right to go first, but the table had a LOT of LOS blocking things so we took the side that had better firing lanes and in sight of all midfield objectives save the middle one.

 

Tactically my partner and I were much smarter this time around as I Master of Ambushed my devcents and smash capt on left flank in cover to challenge the cadre of psychic jerks going for that objective, one unit of scout snipes holding our objective and the other screening the right hand side where he stacked the flyrant and all his assault style bugs.  I put all the Eliminators and the LT there as well as 3 of his 4 characters where on that side.  And well in range for sniping after turn one (a mistake on his part, he'd never faced Raven Guard before).  This time around I put Shrike in reserve while Striking from the Shadows my Intercessors with the plan to put them 9" from his objective turn 2, as it was being held by the brain bug bubble wrapped with a unit of shooty gribblies.  This time around I convinced my Wolf partner to stay home and countercharge things that entered our zone... this proved invaluable later as my opponent quickly realized the damage my Eliminators where doing to his artillery and aura providing units and sold out hard to get at them.

 

Our opponent went first and quickly moved onto the three midfield objectives with everything he had, leaving the brain bug on the objective and the artillery split on each side hanging back. He shot his genestealers around the screen on the right hand side (just didnt have enough scouts to stop it completely, he had about four inches of space to get around on the table edge) but it worked out great as it funneled them into the waiting jaws of the Wolves.  My scouts did their job by being eaten by the flyrant and taken out by his artillery but leaving everything exposed to eliminator fire for our turn.  On the left side my Devcents and Smashy bore the full brunt of his Psychic phase and smite battery but only ended up with three mortal wounds on one of the devcents. -1 to hit and cover negated his artillery on that side as well as the unit of shooty gribblies streaking towards the objective.  In our turn 1 Ex Tenebris and ONE unit of Eliminators HAMMERED the flyrant and took it out (I had amazing rolls, and MANY mortal wounds.. he also rolled a ton of 1s for saves)  while the snipers on my objective and the other unit of eliminators helped pick off genestealers before they got countercharged by Wolf cavalry.  On the left side I kept smashy home for rerolls and also because He would have needed a 10 inch charge to get close and into the Smite Battery which was the target I intended for him to take down. The devcents totally wiped a unit of shooty gribblies and set their sights on the second unit heading to the objective for subsequent turns. 

His turn two saw him tied up on the right side with wolves and deepstriking his big bug 2 inches from my Eliminators and causing a mortal wound to one of them. More physic sniping of my devcents lost all but the Sgt, while his artillery pounded the wolves.  He positioned a chaff unit of shooty gribbiles on the left objective, but made an error again not realizing my Smash Capt. had a jumppack.  The last of his Genestealers died to wolves, who advanced INTO Mr. Deepstrike on his turn, a great move from my partner as the Eliminators and Lt. would delete that guy after I convinced the sons of Russ to fall back out of combat on our turn 2.  

Our turn two won us the game as my smash Capt hopped over the chaff unit and into the smite battery, wreaking serious havoc on them with a Thunder hammer, while the lone dev cent and sniper scouts did enough damage for the chaff unit to be killed in the melee phase by a unit of wolves with riders.  My eliminators handled the deepstriker, and I plopped 27 bolter rounds onto his objective with Shrike taking potshots and then eventually charging the brain bug (love the rerollable charge distance)  It was all over but the crying so our opponent conceded (a BIG mistake in ITC as he could have at least contested objectives for longer and denied us points as a second unit of chaff bugs could have tied up Shrike and claimed with obsec on his turn before my Intercessors could have got to it.)

 

Lessons from this game:

 

1.  Patience pays off, especially since turn two doctrines are amazing for us.  By keeping back when juicy targets presented themselves in turn one, I was able to win the game in turn two, especially on the left flank. 

2.  Deepstriking Intercessors with Assault 3 bolters with Ap -1 is AMAZING. . . while not nearly the volume of fire of say DevCents or Aggressors, the fact that they can Objective Secure on the following turn and then hold with Primaris toughness is quite nice, and 6" of movement and full shooting ensures they can also target other enemy backfield units.  Keeping Shrike with them to reroll makes them super killy, on usually softer backfield units and is symbiotic for positioning him properly for charges without him getting shot off the table.  Highly recommend.  

3.  Screens for Eliminators are ESSENTIAL.  They are just so good, but vulnerable to things getting in their face... having something left backfield to screen assaults for them is the only way they stay effective I think, It may be wise in future games to bring mobile backfield units to help with this. Had I not convinced my partner to tie up the deepstriker for a turn to allow my Eliminators to shoot one more round, I probably would have lost.   I'm thinking specifically of Assault Marines with Jumppacks or Possibly Vanguard Vets with Claws.  The new hotness VanVets with Chainswords as well possibly.  

 

 

All in all we did well and I learned so much!  Above all we had a ton of fun also, and made some real connections to folks as our games were watched often by our local group since none of them had seen the Sons of Corax yet.  I have many offers for more games coming up, which is great since I'm VERY tired of playing our Anti-Marines Tyranids only WAAC guy every Saturday.  More to come, and thanks for taking the time :D.  

[MajorNese]

Yep, sounds interesting, and confirms some of our theories - like the one that we can kill all characters in range until turn 3. Makes me want to try Eliminators and autobolt intercessors even more...

[Dracos]

Nice report Archon :)

 

I think it is a practical example of something Jacques Corbin and I have been discussing through PMs last week. With the MSU nature of Marines, Raven Guard style in particular, designing your overall game plan and army list as if you are going second is a must (in my opinion). It is often the likely outcome and mentally prepares you for the occasional Seize 6. Bonus being if you do go first we have the Traits and Stratagems to take advantage of it ... but we are still better off not counting on it.

 

ANy chance we can see pics of the game or your army?

[thewarriorhunter]

I really love the bolt profiles because you have to think about what you want the unit to do. I tend to lean towards the auto version though because you're always getting three shots, and if you use the strat that auto hits within half range it can be a threat your opponent didn't see coming, especially if you advanced to get into that range and they were expecting you to be at -1 to hit. 30 auto hitting shots T2 with -1AP is not terrible.

[duz_]

I haven't built any with that load or because they were terrible before I might have to now....

[MajorNese]

I haven't built any with that load or because they were terrible before I might have to now....

I had quite a rollercoaster with my AdMech/IH primaris in that regard.

Built a few models with autobolt before the codex hit. They were bad, but looked fitting.

Then the codex hit. Now they were the best option.

Then the supplement hit. Now stalkers are the best option.

 

But since that's still an unplayable side project, and any larger gear-up happens for my Raptors first, it doesn't really matter.

[Archon_77]

*snip*

 

ANy chance we can see pics of the game or your army?

 

 

I did think of taking pics, but alas with the chaos of tourney day I did not get around to it.   As to the army, I've been mulling around starting a thread (as others have) showing off what I got.  I'm in a funny place in that I'm mostly WIP since our new dex just has so many neat toys to play with and I've had to purchase more plastic crack.  It's an option, but I'm kinda embarrassed to show off what little I have completed.  I MIGHT and thats all I'll say about it ;)

[Hiroitchi]

One thing for sure that is amazing from my first experiance with playing 8th edition and playing with my raptors are infilitrators and how well they did against T8 vehicles. Using Bolter discipline and rapid fire. Managed to get lucky and rolled 23 6s and my opponent's vehicle popped. I would attribute that as sheer luck but it was amazing. Eliminators are great at picking off characters and yes ex Tenebrae on an LT is choice.

[ShinyRhino]

One thing for sure that is amazing from my first experiance with playing 8th edition and playing with my raptors are infilitrators and how well they did against T8 vehicles. Using Bolter discipline and rapid fire. Managed to get lucky and rolled 23 6s and my opponent's vehicle popped. I would attribute that as sheer luck but it was amazing. Eliminators are great at picking off characters and yes ex Tenebrae on an LT is choice.

You're not referring to the Rapid Fire stratagem, are you? If so, that doesn't work on Infiltrators. Or was that 23 6s across multiple turns?

Edited October 12, 2019 by ShinyRhino

[Hiroitchi]

 

One thing for sure that is amazing from my first experiance with playing 8th edition and playing with my raptors are infilitrators and how well they did against T8 vehicles. Using Bolter discipline and rapid fire. Managed to get lucky and rolled 23 6s and my opponent's vehicle popped. I would attribute that as sheer luck but it was amazing. Eliminators are great at picking off characters and yes ex Tenebrae on an LT is choice.

You're not referring to the Rapid Fire stratagem, are you? If so, that doesn't work on Infiltrators. Or was that 23 6s across multiple turns?

I used bolter Discipline and got within 12 inches and 6s auto wound.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Out of how many shots? Because a unit of 10 can only get 20 shots; bolter discipline will only affect the range of getting rapid fire, not the amount of shots

[Hiroitchi]

Out of how many shots? Because a unit of 10 can only get 20 shots; bolter discipline will only affect the range of getting rapid fire, not the amount of shots

Interesting thought it doubled the amount of shots if you don’t move. I read it as if I don’t move; my bolt weapons become rapid fire 2 instead of rapid fire 1. I was within 12 inches and each guy shot 4 shots.

 

Edit: After speaking with multiple people for clarity and from you awesome gents I wanted to say, Thanks for the clarification and I will apologize to my opponent next time I see him as I did incorrectly read that wrong.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Hiroitchi

[Dracos]

Honest mistake. There are so many armies with so many rules in 8th ed that boost firepower it wasn't out of the realm of possibility. Share a pizza next and move along. 

[Brom MKIV]

Hey Hiro don't feel bad we were playing it like that too initially. Haha 8 shot stormbolters.. and the relic bolters were pretty insane too. Took out Bjorn with Maelstrom's bite. Edited October 12, 2019 by Brom MKIV

[Hiroitchi]

Hey Hiro don't feel bad we were playing it like that too initially. Haha 8 shot stormbolters.. and the relic bolters were pretty insane too. Took out Bjorn with Maelstrom's bite.

Yeah 23 6s with infiltrators shooting 40 shots against T8 felted Awesome, but again I really appreciate the clarification and I won’t be doing that again.