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Adeptus Astartes in Shadow War: Armageddon

Shadow War: Armageddon Shadow War 40K

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55 replies to this topic

#26
Brother Tyler

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There's nothing to apologize for. cool.png

Besides, I basically agreed with removing the Scout and replacing it, largely as suggested. The Black Templars would be the only Chapter to keep the Scout (ahem..."neophyte") via their Chapter Honours.
 

Is anyone interrested in ''fixing'' the campaign system to be fair for every faction after the marines get a good list here?


Have you seen this discussion? smile.png

The simple fix to the campaign rules is to change "promethium caches" to "victory points" and just move on.

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#27
Brother Tyler

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I went through and made a bunch of changes/updates. Here's a brief rundown:
  • Iron Hands Veteran Sergeants have the option to purchase TDA when the kill team is first created (very expensive)
  • Removed Scouts from the faction list, replaced with Initiate Space Marines. Black Templars keep Scouts (Neophytes) and don't have access to the Initiate Space Marines (yes, I know about the whole neophyte/initiate thing - the normal trooper Space Marine is their Initiate msn-wink.gif )
  • Changed frost blades so that they are an upgrade to chainswords, power swords, and power axes (the upgrade must be purchased at the same time that the base weapon is purchased - it's not a upgrade you can take later on).
  • Increased Vanguard Veteran's Movement score to 8".
  • Increased Space Marine bike Movement to 8", added inability to move up/down ladders, added rule that stairs (up and down) are difficult terrain for bikes.
  • Reduced Blood Claw WS and MS to 3.
  • Changed Black Templars Righteous Zeal rule to Hatred (was Frenzy)
  • Removed short range modifier for plasma cannon
  • Removed sniper rifle (no scouts, so we don't need it)
  • Revised Raven Guard Strike from the Shadows verbiage to match that of Genestealer Cult special rule.
  • Removed the Turbo Boost rule from the Space Marine bike. The standard Movement rules already allow for it via a Run move, so this cleans things up a bit.
  • Added the kill team size to the Using a Space Marines kill team section (filling the space vacated by the bit about the Scouts, who are no longer present).
I've left the name of the White Scars special rule (Fight on the Move - it's a crappy name). I was tempted to use "Hit and Run" but that is already being used for a mission name. I also left the Bionics rule alone for now. It only affects the Iron Hands, but I haven't worked through any modifications that allow for a simple mechanism yet. I'm not opposed to changing either, but need more time to develop simple and balanced alternatives.

As covered above, I left the Raven Guard rule alone, except for adjusting the verbiage. I was thinking about expanding it (possibly including either jump packs or a free Run move at the start of the battle), but their special rule is already an faction-wide special rule for another faction. So it doesn't seem fair to give them what they currently have and an additional rule - that's unbalanced. So I'm strongly considering changing from the current rule to something purely with jump packs, both in terms of making jump packs available to Raven Guard fighters (except special operatives, Scouts, and fighters equipped with heavy weapons) along with a special rule that capitalizes on the jump packs (sort of the way the White Scars rule requires a Space Marine bike to even be effective).

I'm working on getting the revised page images ready for posting. The updated version will be 1.1 (and will be reflected in the upper right of the header). Hopefully they'll be available tonight/tomorrow.
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#28
Brother Tyler

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Here are the updated pages. Each is hidden, as before, since they're huge. I've included notes about relevant pages.

Page 1 (basic Space Marine kill team rules)
Hidden Content

Page 2 (Space Marine weapon and equipment lists)
Hidden Content

Page 3 (weapons and equipment rules - ammunition and basic weapons)
Hidden Content

Page 4 (weapons and equipment rules - hand-to-hand weapons)
Hidden Content

Page 5 (weapons and equipment rules - hand-to-hand weapons continued, heavy weapons, miscellaneous, pistols, special weapons)
Hidden Content

Page 6 (weapons and equipment rules - specialized equipment)
Hidden Content

Page 7 (Space Marines special operatives)
Hidden Content

Page 8 (skills - Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands)
Hidden Content

Page 9 (skills - Raven Guard, Salamanders, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, White Scars)
Hidden Content

Page 10 (Chapter Honours - Black Templars, Blood Angels)
Hidden Content

Page 11 (Chapter Honours - Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands)
Hidden Content

Page 12 (Chapter Honours - Raven Guard, Salamanders)
Hidden Content

Page 13 (Chapter Honours - Space Wolves, Ultramarines)
Hidden Content

Page 14 (Chapter Honours - White Scars)
Hidden Content

Aside from the change to the Space Wolves Veteran Sergeant's access to Terminator armour and the missing underline for the Miscellaneous equipment on page 5, and the missing images/quotes (of course), I think that the work is mostly done. All that pending playtesting results, of course. Beyond that, my chief concerns are the weapons and equipment that are in red text - are those additions balanced, especially considering those that should be included in the Chaos Space Marines kill team rules, but which are not? In all honesty, I think they should be added to the Chaos Space Marines kill team faction rules. So the ones with which I am most concerned are the special issue ammunition and graviton weapons.

Oh, and I'm considering whether or not to change the Raven Guard rules. As I described previously, these rules are identical to the special rules for a Genestealer Cult. The difference, I suppose, is that a Genestealer Cult kill team is typically much larger than a Space Marines kill team, so there's a little more bang for their buck there. What I'm considering for the Raven Guard is one of two options. First, simply allowing Raven Guard fighters (that aren't equipped with heavy weapons and which aren't new recruits) to have access to jump packs. The second option combines access to jump packs as the first, and replacing the Strike from the Shadows special rule with some special rule capitalizing on jump packs (much like the White Scars' special rule encourages them to take Space Marine bikes).

Oh, and I'm considering whether or not to give Blood Angels kill teams access to jump packs (again, for all fighters except new recruits and those equipped with heavy weapons).

Now that I think about it, it might be better to just leave the Raven Guard alone (their current rule reflects how most players think of them and the smaller kill team size means that it doesn't infringe too much on the Genestealer Cults) and simply giving Blood Angels fighters access to jump packs.

Thoughts?
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#29
CorvusFerox

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Thanks again for doing this for all the guys out there wanting their Loyalists ( i play Night Lords and Raven Guard)

Your idea with Jump packs for all ''normal'' raven Guard marines sounds fun.. but will be too powerful in many scenarios like ''raid'' and ''scavenger'', because you have a massive movement bonus.
Maybe just allow 1/2 Jumppack/s into the killteam so you dont have to buy a Vanguard veteran with promethium?
It would fit the Raven guard warfare. the are sneaky and fast, but Iron hands/Space Wolves can have terminator armor and will be way harder to  damage in a 1v1.

I think you overlooked a little miss-spelling/ using the ''old'' Sheet.
Page 13. Space wolves chapter honours quote ''you cannot recruit scouts'' should be replaced with ''initiate Space Marine''

Its still very very nice that you are wasting your time doing this for other players, so thank you ^^



#30
Brother Tyler

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Ah, good catch on the Blood Claws. Actually, with the introduction of the Initiate Space Marines, the Blood Claw option could be removed since they're essentially the same thing.

I also tightened up some wording here and there.

The potential for imbalance due to the jump packs is probably spot on. I gave just the Veteran Sergeants of the Blood Angels and Raven Guard access to jump packs. I also adjusted the White Scars so that only the Veteran Sergeant has access to the Space Marine bike. This matches up with the Iron Hands and Space Wolves with just their Veteran Sergeants having access to Terminator armour.

I've also marked certain weapons/wargear that models in Terminator armour are limited to. This saves on the wordiness of the rules (i.e., the sections giving them access to TDA don't have to say what they can/can't have because the weapons/equipment list already provides that info).

"Wasting [my] time?!!!" There is most definitely a method to my madness. msn-wink.gif

Updates/fixes listed above will be in the 1.2 release, along with anything else we catch between now and Friday.

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#31
Tyr13

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While this is definitely a valiant (and well designed) effort, I feel it doesnt really fit into the rest of the game... some parts standing out as being particularly... off?

For one, bikes. Bikes really have no place in this game. If there was an offshoot akin to the old ashwaste expansion for necromunda, sure. But as it is, bikes just make no sense, neither thematically nor from a gameplay point of view.

Thematically: This is an elite kill team, trying not to attract too much attention. Theyre mostly trying to be stealthy, even the non-stealthy armies. Using a bike just doesnt make sense. Its large and heavy, it cant traverse loads of terrain types, and its loud. If it were a WW2 kind of bike, maybe, but SM bikes are huge, multi-tonne monsters. They work for frontal charges or scouting in open terrain, but not in the "promethium sprawl".

 

Second point, terminator armour. There is a reason its only available on Spec Ops. If it was available for normal units, the unit would basically be immune to harm. Especially if the character *then* got additional profile and/or skill upgrades. As fluffy as it might be, Id just drop the terminator armour. Its just waaaay too much work to balance it *and* still make it usable. (to give you an idea: the deathcult assassin has two powerswords, at 50pts each, a 5+ invulnerable save, causes fear and has a pretty damn good profile, and it *doesnt* have the bounty rule. A GK paladin has a very achievable profile (having just an additional point of W and WS each) and gives D3 promethium stashes as a bounty if taken out.)

So if you really do want to continue with the terminator armour, you have to consider that the gamedesigners considered them to basically be among the most powerful Spec Ops available.

 

Another possible issue: Grav guns. You should probably add some wording about units with no save (theyre rare, but they exist... harlequins for isntance).

Additionally, grav guns might cause some issues with balance... not sure about that, just an issue to be aware of (since most of the time, the whole team  will have the same save... and high save models tend to pay dearly for them. Not really an issue in 40k, but in a persistent campaign, it might become one.

 

Apart from that, Im mostly not a fan of the huge amount of equipment available... it kind of puts other teams at a disadvantage. And while I would love it if every team had way more options, thats just not the case currently. I mean, some dont even have basic stuff like red dots, or even CC weapons in the case of necrons...

Kind of hard to achieve, but it might be worth thinking about limiting whats available in general.

And while were at it, that might be a good option to further differentiate initiates: they dont get as many upgrades. For instance, limited or no access to misc equipment, since they havent really been using their fresh equipment for long enough to add their own custom upgrades.

 

... I think Im done now. :P



#32
Sigvard

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So going on from what Tyr13 has said and my experience of the game so far. Please take it as constructive advice as it is meant as such.

 

I understand the want to make them as diverse as possible I really do but each faction is diverse because of the skills and the modeling and not because of the gear, in fact there is very little gear for each faction. Guard and Inquisition are very similar in their equipment with only the Inquisitor really being able to take anything unusual.

 

So my thoughts are this Troopers (Tactical Marine)  should come equipped with a combat blade only, then they must buy either a bolt pistol or boltgun. They can then further be equipped with a chainsword. Then give them access to a red dot sight, telescopic sight, reload, and photo visor and possibly Dragonfire Bolts. I would perhaps drop in another item for them which is  the stalker boltgun which I would set at 50 points and have it follow the rules for a sniper rifle but remove the move or fire element and thus the increase in points. They should then have access to Frag and Krak Grenades.

 

New recruits - There should be no new recruit for this faction. They are an elite faction like Grey Knights. Their New Recruits would be scouts who have their own faction, as you cannot make a slightly worse marine to fill in the blank. It is not required.

 

Leaders should have access to power sword, power maul, power fist, Plasma Pistol and then all of the above. I would give them a storm shield for fluffy purposes and again leave it at that.

 

If you want to make Wolves/Blood Angels fluffier add frost blade or Encarmine blade for an increase of 10pts giving +1s for Wolves and -1 rend for Blood Angels. Iron Hands can take bionics which means they suffer a flesh wound on 1-2 rather than just a 1. I wouldn't suggest anything else as they are easy to do and don't break the game. Though personally I wouldn't do any of them (I am a Wolves and Blood Angels player primarily) because you will then get other factions crying about not getting their own fluffy bits. I would perhaps consider bionics as a general item as above but that is all.

 

Specialists - I would call them Space Marine Specialist give them access to all of the above and then a flamer, melta, Heavy Bolter and a missile launcher .

 

Bikes do not have a place in Shadow War -  They are noisy, huge and provide benefits no other faction gets in any way. They do not belong in this game.

 

Terminators - They should only be special operatives -  there is a reason for this, 2+ is a hugely potent in a game where most things only have a 4+ or worse. Giving it a to faction leader presents horrendous balance issues, Leave them as a Special Operative -  Along with Veterans and Apothcaries. Leave Deathwatch clear so they can participate as their own faction.

 

Skills should be as the scout skill list for each faction. The only one you need to worry about generating is the Deathwatch one.

 

I think the job you have done is incredible but if you are to take this on you cannot please everyone. Every faction list that is available is bare bones with only a few options, you have to approach this from that angle.

 

Just a final thought - you have my upmost respect for taking this on brother -  Emperors Blessings upon you.


Edited by Sigvard, 06 May 2017 - 05:19 PM.

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"I am the hammer, I am the right hand of the Emperor, the instrument of His will, the gauntlet about His fist, the tip of His spear, the edge of His sword."

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"For Sparta, For the Emperor, to the death!~ Chapter Master Leonidas Diocles, The Lions of Sparta

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"For Russ and the Allfather."

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#33
Brother Tyler

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The last two replies have captured my initial concerns fairly well (though I hadn't considered the "no new recruits" option, admittedly).

 

The skills actually do follow those of the Scouts. The only development in the area of skills was for the Chapters that the Scouts list didn't cover. Deathwatch will come later (that will be a separate faction, like a cross between this list and the Grey Knights list).

 

Removing the terminator armour option (for the Iron Hands and Space Wolves) is very easy, and probably doesn't require further changes.

 

Removing jump packs for the Raven Guard is also easy, though it requires a slight tweak to the Chapter Honours (probably a derivation of the Genestealer Cult faction rules, if anything).

 

Removing the Space Marine bike for the White Scars is easy, but it requires different Chapter Honours for the White Scars. So that's where the real work needs to be done, developing something in line with the lore while also balanced for Shadow War: Armageddon.

 

Overall, my concern is the Chapter Honours being characterful, while extremely minor (or having negative side effects as balances, such as with the Chapter Honours that the Imperial Fists currently have).

 

Beyond those issues, if you remove all of the weapons/equipment that are only allowed by Chapter Honours, there are only ten items that have been added to the base list (combining both the Space Marine Scouts and Chaos Space Marine lists of items appropriate to Space Marines):  all four combi-weapons, power maul, lightning claw, power axe, thunder hammer, heavy flamer, and grav pistol (interesting that I missed the basic grav gun as a special weapon). It's important to note that all of these weapons are limited to the veteran sergeant, except for the heavy flamer which can only be taken by the Space Marine Gunner.

 

I don't really see a good reason for the combi-weapons (except the combi-grav), power maul, lightning claw, or power axe to not be included in the Chaos Space Marines faction listing (especially since the Chaos Terminator [special operative] can take a power axe, combi-flamer, combi-melta, or lightning claws. Those weapons aren't so powerful that they create imbalances that need to be balanced by limiting the availability so much. My position there is that those weapons need to be added to the Chaos Space Marines faction list. The exception to that is that the combi-weapons could probably remain limited to the Sternguard.

 

Perhaps an artificial way to reduce the weapon/equipment listing would be to remove those items that are limited to Chapter Honours and provide their cost/category in the Chapter Honours listings. For example, the cost of the plasma cannon and its inclusion in the heavy weapons category would be part of the Dark Angels Chapter Honours listing rather than in the main listing. This would narrow the main listing down a bit (though there may still be some additions).

 

The "Space Marine Gunner" name will remain. It follows both the Space Marine Scouts and Chaos Space Marine faction naming conventions. It doesn't artificially limit in the way that "Devastator" would have - whether the nifty dakka is a special weapon or a heavy weapon, it's still a "gun." ;)

 

Version 2 development is in progress with the latest feedback. It should appear some time next week.

 

Cheers!


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#34
Lord_Ikka

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I like the effort involved, it is seriously cool to read all this stuff! The only real criticism I have is similar to what Sigvard and Try13 have said. Please don't take this as a negative, because I'm aiming to be helpful rather than hurtful.

I feel like this is an effort more to make a Necromunda-like Space Marine factuon rather than a SWA faction. Way too many options and special rules- rather than have each chapter have different weapon options and their own special rules they should be differentiated by their Skill options, similar to how the other factions differentiate subfactions.

As it is now, SWA is basically a dumbed down version of the much more complex Necromunda (in the best possible way) that is easy to learn and doesn't have a mass of rules. It seems to be designed for fast and esy play, with limited options for each faction to keep the rules light and simple. That should be the end goal for the Space Marine faction- the bare minimum of special rules/customization.

While I do love the creativity of the current rules that have been made for the SM faction, I do think it is too... in-depth for SWA as a general set of rules. It feels more like an option for a more advanced ruleset, one in which all of the factions get many more options for members/gear/rules.

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#35
Sigvard

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Brother Tyler -  I have had a little play at coming up with basic view of what I think it should lean closer towards. I have based a lot of it off your fine work. I am happy to post if you would like to have a review? I am not wanting to step on your toes etc. However it has passed the scratch test with my gaming group and I am being allowed to trial the list on Friday.


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#36
Brother Tyler

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I've made a few tweaks. I'm still looking at things and tightening wording up, but here's a preview:
  • Terminator armour is only available to Iron Hands Veteran Sergeants if they roll What Doesn't Kill You... on the Serious Injury table, but at the cost of 5 promethium caches (too high?) and two additional missions. I'm still leery of this one, but I left it in for discussion. There is a significant cost - the kill team won't be able to recruit or rearm for three missions while the Veteran Sergeant is out, and they'll be set back 5 promethium caches. If that cost isn't sufficient, then perhaps TDA needs to go away entirely for the Iron Hands (except for the special operative).
  • Jump packs have been removed for the Blood Angels and Raven Guard.
  • Lightning Claws are now only available to Raven Guard Veteran Sergeants (as well as to Terminator special operatives).
If you remove all of the things that are only available to certain Chapters, the weapons and wargear list isn't really that big. The only things that have really been added are power mauls, power axes, combi-weapons, and grav weapons. Now I have no idea why the first three aren't already available to Chaos Space Marines - they really should be. So these might be removed, or made "Chapter Honours only" (e.g., power axes might be available to Space Wolves). Chaos Space Marines don't have access to grav weapons, so these are a bit more squishy. Realistically, a kill team might only have one grav weapon (the Veteran Sergeant), so I don't think there's really a (huge) balance issue there. Still, this needs to be discussed.

Now each individual Chapter does offer a number of additional weapons and wargear, but these tend to be limited to the Veteran Sergeant and special operatives. So they are flavorful, without really being unbalanced. That's a hypothesis that needs to be (play)tested.

I'll continue looking at things and will, hopefully, post version 1.2 this weekend.

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#37
Brother Tyler

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Here's version 1.2.

I've removed Special Issue Ammunition and Space Marine Bikes (as well as special operatives on bikes and any weapons such as the Corvus Hammer that was only available to models on bikes).

The White Scars Chapter Honours have been modified to work without Space Marine Bikes, which means that it will be far less useful since models on foot move much shorter distances.

Looking at the variety of stuff in this list, there are only a few additions across the board, and those are mostly limited to the Veteran Sergeant (except for the heavy flamer, which is available to the Gunner). All of the other new stuff is limited based on the Chapter Honours taken (and most of that is only available to the Veteran Sergeants).

It's down to 11 pages now.

Page 1 (basic Space Marine kill team rules)
Hidden Content


Page 2 (Space Marine weapon and equipment lists)
Hidden Content


Page 3 (basic weapons, hand-to-hand weapons)
Hidden Content


Page 4 (hand-to-hand weapons cont., heavy weapons)
Hidden Content


Page 5 (miscellaneous, pistols, special weapons, specialized equipment)
Hidden Content


Page 6 (Space Marines special operatives)
Hidden Content


Page 7 (Skills)
Hidden Content


Page 8 (Skills cont.)
Hidden Content


Page 9 (Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels)
Hidden Content


Page 10 (Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders)
Hidden Content


Page 11 (Space Wolves, Ultramarines, White Scars)
Hidden Content

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#38
Brother Tyler

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Here's the final version, pre-filler images (which I'm working on). This is the "FBD" (Final, before decoratin) version with the header/footer bars changed to a dark green to indicate that the rules are final (unless someone points out something compelling).

I've removed the option for Iron Hands Veteran Sergeants to take Terminator Armour (for the reasons cited in previous replies). There have been no other substantive changes (though I did remove the reference to the Raven Guard preferring jump packs since I removed that option from their Chapter Honours previously).

It's back up to 12 pages, with the "And They Shall Know No Fear" bit being the only thing on the 12th page (for now - the intent is to put some appropriate imagery on that page).

Page 1 (basic Space Marine kill team rules)
Hidden Content

Page 2 (Space Marine weapon and equipment lists)
Hidden Content

Page 3 (basic weapons, hand-to-hand weapons)
Hidden Content

Page 4 (hand-to-hand weapons cont., heavy weapons)
Hidden Content

Page 5 (miscellaneous, pistols, special weapons, specialized equipment)
Hidden Content

Page 6 (Space Marines special operatives)
Hidden Content

Page 7 (Skills)
Hidden Content

Page 8 (Skills cont.)
Hidden Content

Page 9 (Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels)
Hidden Content

Page 10 (Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders)
Hidden Content

Page 11 (Space Wolves, Ultramarines, White Scars)
Hidden Content

Page 12 (decoration)
Hidden Content

Edited by Brother Tyler, 17 November 2017 - 11:54 AM.
Corrected page 2 (removed "Terminator armour" equipment notes)

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#39
Brother Tyler

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There have been a couple of minor tweaks.

First, the wording of the Ultramarines Chapter Honours didn't include Attack. My brain was stuck in the WH40K game where "To Hit" applies to both shooting and assault. Also, the Ultramarines Chapter Honours was unbalanced in that it was similar to the special rule for the Adepta Sororitas (re-rolling To Hit and Attack rolls of 1), but was much more flexible in that each Ultramarines model could use the special rule on different turns (whereas the entire Adepta Sororitas kill team uses their special rule during the same turn). So the Ultramarines special rule has been re-written to:

Doctrines of War: An Ultramarines fighter can re-roll one To Hit or Attack roll of 1 during a turn. The player announces the use of the doctrine after rolling To Hit or Attack with the fighter. Each Ultramarines fighter may use this special rule only once during a game, though each Ultramarines fighter may use this special rule during different turns.

Meanwhile, the Space Wolves didn't have a special rule. Some Space Wolves fighters had access to Chapter-unique weapons/wargear, but every Chapter has this to one degree or another. They also replaced the Vanguard Veteran special operative with a Wolf Scout, but that isn't balanced with the other Chapter Honours. And like all Chapters, they have their own unique skills. Looking at the 7th/8th edition WH40K rules, the Space Wolves units that appear in SWA all have acute senses and counter-attack (universal special rules). Acute senses is useless in SWA because all models are deployed on the table at the start of the game, so counter-attack became the solution, which worked fine...

Counter-attack: During a turn in which a Space Wolves fighter is charged by an enemy fighter, the Space Wolves model may re-roll one Attack dice.

Note that the Space Wolves re-roll may be applied to any Attack dice, but only one. This is intended to balance (versus the Ultramarines) with the limitation of only being able to re-roll when the Space Wolves model is charged, so it doesn't apply to Shooting or when the Space Wolves fighter charges an enemy model.

There have been some minor other edits that aren't substantive in nature (e.g., wording of bionics adjusted to refer to Iron Hands Legion Successors rather than just the Iron Hands).

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#40
Brother Tyler

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And now we're working on getting suitable images for the finished product. Just follow the "Armageddon needs you!" link in my signature for details.

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#41
Brother Tyler

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I made one substantive change. The Salamanders Chapter Honours now allow the Vanguard Veteran special operative to exchange his chainsword for a thunder hammer; the Sternguard Veteran special operative may exchange his boltgun for a thunder hammer or a combi-flamer; and the Terminator special operative may exchange his power fist for a thunder hammer.

I also made a few minor tweaks to wording for clarity (e.g., the Salamanders Wall of Flame rule applies to weapons with the flamer rule (rather than just "flamer weapons"), so applies to heavy flamers and combi-flamers. The Imperial Fists Chapter Honours had the small change, expanding the rule allowing "Gunners" to take storm bolters to say "Space Marine Gunners" (I'm not sure how many rules lawyers there are who would get pedantic about there being no "Gunner" entry, but now they can't do that).

And depending on how the Emperor's Shield challenge goes, I may increase the number of kill teams pictured in the final rules (by removing the flavor text boxes). It would be nice to show 4 full kill teams.

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#42
Brother Tyler

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And some final unilateral msn-wink.gif changes:
 
I added verbiage to make the Chapter Honours and Skills applicable to Space Marine Scout Kill Teams as found in the Shadow War: Armageddon Rulebook (the Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, and Iron Hands were not included; and the Dark Angels and Ultramarines were named "Angels of Redemption" and "Sons of Guilliman" respectively, after their successors that participated in the campaign).
 
Several of the Chapter Honours were adjusted to include Scout Sergeants, giving them access to the nifty weapons. The only exceptions were Salamanders Scout Sergeants not getting access to thunder hammers (per the 2nd edition lore, thunder hammers release a terrific amount of energy that would kill an unarmoured Space Marine). Other than that, I think that Scout Sergeants gained access to the same weapons as their power armoured counterparts. I also made an adjustment to the Dark Angels Chapter Honours so that they would be functional for corresponding Space Marine Scouts kill teams from the Unforgiven Chapters - I gave their Scout Sergeants access to plasma pistols and combi-plasma.
 
Lastly, I fixed all of the typos that I found (several places where I had "and" instead of "an" blush.png).
 
And with the closing of the Emperor's Shield Challenge, we'll have Aramis K providing images of his Angels of Redemption kill team (the winner) and Ioldanach providing images of his Black Dragons kill team. In addition, deathspectersgt7 has provided images of his Exorcists to help fill things out. Once I get all of the images edited into the file, it will be made available via the downloads (though I'll also include images here).

Lastly, these rules will serve as a foundation for several supplements (that I'll post in separate discussions, just to keep things tidy). These supplements will be, in order:
  • Badab War Chapters
  • Ordo Xenos Deathwatch
  • Other Chapters (the Red Hunters and Angels Revenant from Forge World, other Chapters that were given rules in the FFG Deathwatch RPG)
  • Legio Bolter & Chainsword
So you can start thinking about ideas for those Chapters now, and you can expect me to run several more challenges for images of kill teams for each supplement. msn-wink.gif

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#43
Brother Tyler

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One last (I hope) unilateral change. I added axes and chainaxes to the weapons and equipment list, making both available to Space Wolves kill teams. There were already rules/cost for axes in the rulebook, so I took a stab at the pattern for chainaxes. There were just too many Space Wolves minis rocking axes of one sort or another to not include them.

 

Also, another supplement to these rules will be a Great Crusade/Horus Heresy set of rules. My initial focus will be the Legiones Astartes, but the Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum forces will be added later.

 

And another spinoff of these rules will be expanded rules for the Heretic Astartes, but that will be further down the road.


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#44
Dosjetka

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Could I suggest the additional inclusion of the storm bolter in the Basic Weapons list but with the *Veteran Sergeant only caveat? This would avoid 1) Veteran Sergeants having access to the entirety of the Special Weapons list and 2) avoid Space Marine taking storm bolters over boltguns.

 

Justification: It seems odd that they wouldn't have access to a weapon that's been part of Sergeant equipment in the main game for a long time.


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#45
Brother Tyler

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I included them in the Special Weapons category because that's where GW put them in the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition kill team rules, and as far as I can tell, GW was using consistent categories for weapons and equipment available to multiple kill teams. The Grey Knights also have them, but every model automatically comes with a storm bolter, so there's no category in their list. So the Special Weapons category basically excluded them for Veteran Sergeants, except those from the Imperial Fists who gain them by their Chapter Honours.


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#46
Dosjetka

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Hm. I'm not aware of any fluff justification that would result in the Imperial Fists having privileged access to storm bolters where other Chapters couldn't but fair enough. Thank you for the explanation.


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#47
Brother Tyler

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You're correct, but I was trying to do two things. First, I wanted a way for (some) Veteran Sergeants to be able to take storm bolters (just as you've suggested). Second, I was trying to give the Imperial Fists rules that would allow them to capitalize on their Bolter Drill rule, and make up for the lack of siege warfare rules (since that's not the type of combat that is readily represented with SWA).

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#48
Brother Tyler

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Addendum to Dosjetka's post above.

I've done a similar thing with the Marines Errant, providing a way for players to take what are effectively breacher squads (i.e., power armoured Space Marines equipped with storm shields).

Okay, below is the almost final version of the rules. This version includes all of the changes I've identified above. In addition, there are two other adjustments that were made today.

The first is substantive - I adjusted the wording of the Apothecary's Field Medic rule, which I had copied verbatim from the rulebook. The problem is that the rule, as written, doesn't make sense except by inference. So I clarified it (hopefully correctly). If I've gotten it wrong, I'm sure (and I sincerely hope) that someone will tell me so that I can fix it.

The second is for appearance. When I began working on the rules for the Badab War Chapters (and considering the other additions to come later), I realized that I needed a way to ensure that the pages don't get mixed up between the files (because I'm using the same formatting and background images). So I'm replacing the Legio B&C skull and crossed bones logo in the upper left corner with a logo unique to each file. Since this one is the baseline set of rules for Space Marines, I've used the Space Marines icon (from the 7th edition allies chart).

Page 1 (basic Space Marine kill team rules)
Hidden Content

Page 2 (Space Marine weapon and equipment lists)
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Page 3 (basic weapons, hand-to-hand weapons)
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Page 4 (hand-to-hand weapons cont. (and I have to adjust some things here))
Hidden Content

Page 5 (heavy weapons, miscellaneous, pistols)
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Page 6 (special weapons, specialized equipment)
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Page 7 (Space Marines special operatives)
Hidden Content

Page 8 (Skills - Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands)
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Page 9 (Skills - Raven Guard, Salamanders, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, White Scars)
Hidden Content

Page 10 (Chapter Honours - Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels)
Hidden Content

Page 11 (Chapter Honours - Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders)
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Page 12 (Chapter Honours - Space Wolves, Ultramarines, White Scars)
Hidden Content

Page 13 (decoration)
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If you see anything that needs to be fixed, please let me know ASAP. Once I have the images from the Emperor's Shield challenge, I'll be putting them in the file and then finalizing it for download.
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#49
Dosjetka

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While I appreciate what you are trying to do, I personally don't think that restricting the storm bolter to Imperial Fists is a "good" thing as it restricts options for no "proper" reason other than needing something special for the Imperial Fists. I feel the storm bolter should be accessible to all and the Imperial Fists would get something else instead. That said 1) it's an issue that most probably won't affect other people and 2) as I am still getting to grips with the rules and mechanics I don't have a suitable replacement for that "trait", so feel free to ignore my complaint. :)


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#50
Brother Tyler

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Where were you back in April?tongue.png


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