DA 8th Edition Info

[Ezzeran]

So is there a good source for previews of 8th edition at this point? Any battle reports from playtesting posted?

I'm really curious how this will affect us on the table. I've seen mention that 8th edition will be a boon for TDA, but I'm not sure why.

Have they made any announcements on Codices?

Ezz

 

Since this is the go to thread for DA info on 8th edition I changed the thread title so it's easier to locate subject. CL

Edited June 1, 2017 by Chaplain Lucifer

[General Strike]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/

 

This is pretty much what we know so far.

[MoK]

From what I've seen there should be very little effect on us, maybe the armour modifiers will make TDA stronger, maybe the movement characteristic will make Ravenwing will be more interesting.

I wouldn't worry about it till 8th actually comes out.

[Indefragable]

I've seen a rumor somewhere--can't remember the source, so it take with salt--that Terminator armor will go back to being a 3+ on 2D6. Especially since AP on weapons will be more of a sliding scale (AP3 = -3 to enemy armor save or something), it would make sense if TDA is always getting a least a 30-50% chance of saving your dudes. 

 

Again, take that with salt. 

[Ezzeran]

I also like the idea of striking first when charging. Huge boost to terminators.

 

Ezz

[Xenith]

I've seen a rumor somewhere--can't remember the source, so it take with salt--that Terminator armor will go back to being a 3+ on 2D6. Especially since AP on weapons will be more of a sliding scale (AP3 = -3 to enemy armor save or something), it would make sense if TDA is always getting a least a 30-50% chance of saving your dudes.

 

Again, take that with salt.

That worked in a smaller game system with fewer models with fewer shots like in second or early third.

 

Now imagine resolving 20-30+ saves on termies from stuff like triptides, scat bike spam, grav spam,etc.

 

They might get a 0+ save, or get to ignore some negatives, but i cant see them going back to saving on 2 dice.

[Fezifresh]

3+ on 2d6 is essentially a 2+ rerollable save, so it wouldnt be to complicated i think.

 

But i agree that 0+ or something along that line would be easier to integrate with save modifiers etc.

[Ezzeran]

3+ on 2d6 is essentially a 2+ rerollable save, so it wouldnt be to complicated i think.

But i agree that 0+ or something along that line would be easier to integrate with save modifiers etc.

Yeah I was thinking along these lines. I think re-rolls for terminator armor would be perfect. Would give them much more of a chance against mass small arms fire (which they are supposed to be able to shrug off.)

 

Ezz

[shabbadoo]

The old 3+ on 2d6 TDA save worked...and would work...just fine, except for people who are so mentally slow as to not be able to quickly add a number no greater than 6 to 3, and then add two numbers - each no greater than six - to one another and see if the total is lower than the first number. I know people don't have six fingers on each hand to help them out in figuring things, but I also know it is possible to the most imbecilic of people to actually learn to do such simple mental math *in a second or two*; especially if there is some sort of personal impetus for them learning to do so. And people can do this simple math without being jacked up on Sapho juice. Besides, if somebody is having to make 20-30 TDA saves because they are playing so gigantic a game that that is even going to happen I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they could count high enough to add up their army list points in the first place, they will probably be just fine figuring out 20-30 saves in this manner. There would probably be an app for those who need their butts wiped for them anyways. If you want an example of something cumbersome, we could go back to throwing frag grenades, rolling for scatter for each one that misses, and rolling a 4+ for every model not completely covered any small blast template to see if it is hit. Now, imagine that being done for 30 models who all threw frag grenades. And then there are the rolls for wounding and saves - maybe some of them against TDA! Yeah, those 3+ on 2d6 TDA saves are sounding pretty simple now, aren't they. And it will happen, because we all just have to play stupidly large games all of the time just so we can complain about how the rules don't work quickly enough, and are therefore stupid!

 

Anyways, I don't recall any legitimate rumor of the 3+ TDA thing coming back. It is only conjecture based on the Shadow War: Armageddon rules. Doesn't mean the rule couldn't come back though...

Edited April 16, 2017 by shabbadoo

[Isiah]

:O

[Dark_Master]

The only issue with 2D6 is that you have to do each model save separately so you could keep track of which d6 goes with which.

 

10 power armour 3+ saves can be done with 10 d6 at the same time. 5 terminator 3 + armour saves on 2d6 would require 5 rolls. Using full strength DW squads would take AGES

 

DM

[JeffJedi]

Or 5 pairs of colored dice.

[Solrac]

There is so many instances in the game at the moment where you have to roll your 1d6 individually (Look Out Sirs, Vehicle Squadron Results etc.) that Terminators going back to 2d6 and having to roll them individually wouldn't be such a big deal and wouldn't slow the game down especially given the cost of Terminators means that there aren't a lot of them on the table. If you practice rolling 2d6 and see what you are looking for it can be almost as quick as rolling the whole squads D6 at once.

 

Death Stars full of independent characters look out sir'ing all the time and taking multiple wounds slow the game down a lot more.

 

I hope 8th edition kills off death stars and dumb allied shenanigans.

[jbaeza94]

Maybe I'm wrong, but couldn't a whole squad be resolved in 1-2 turns since it's always against the closest target? For example, dw squad takes 5 wounds. Roll 5 d6, any one that is a 1 you just reroll (since 2+1 is already 3 so it would be redundant) Another 1 would equal 1 wound. It's essentially 2+ rerollable. Am I missing something?

[shabbadoo]

Weapon save modifiers is what you are missing.  One could speed things up by rolling one set of d6's for saves, and any that are only one less than, equal to, or greater than  the target number will automatically succeed. Any die rolls two or more lower than the target save number would need to have a second die rolled to see if the total doesn't meet the target save number. 30 (or more) saves could be handled at almost the same rate as a one die roll save is.

 

For example, make 30 TDA 3+ saves on 2d6 with a -1 save modifier (i.e. a 4+ save):

 

Roll 30 dice.

For any ones that initially came up, roll a die. Any one or two that comes up in indicates a failed save.

For any twos that initially came up, roll a die. Any one that comes up indicates a failed save.

 

One simply won't be rolling very many secondary dice in most cases, and so things would go rather quickly.

[Harleqvin]

shouldn't this be relegated to NR&A?

[Knight Master Eladric]

Just FYI,

The 3+ on 2d6 save is currently in use for terminators when playing Shadow Wars. Related as well, or not, the game uses a save modifier instead of AP.

[FlamingDeth]

This wouldn't be NR&A because there's no news or rumors, it's entirely speculation.

[Interrogator Stobz]

And keep it directly related to DA please ;)

[JR-Jack]

The only issue with 2D6 is that you have to do each model save separately so you could keep track of which d6 goes with which.

 

10 power armour 3+ saves can be done with 10 d6 at the same time. 5 terminator 3 + armour saves on 2d6 would require 5 rolls. Using full strength DW squads would take AGES

 

Perhaps a better mechanic would be to give terminators a save re-roll. This would have a similar effect (although not quite as good if you apply the save modifier to both the save and the re-roll) but would allow a whole units dice to be rolled together. I guess GW have already made up their minds how this will work so there's not much point speculating.

 

Hopefully my Deathwing will be tough enough in a couple of months to come back into my lists!

[dtse]

Hope you all caught the details of the Q and A today.

[Confused Word Bearer]

With templates being gone, does this mean that you'll be able to overwatch and snapfire with weapons that were previosuly blasts, like Plasma Cannons? If so, then with our chapter tactics that's going to work out as a nice buff, I think. Also because I love plasma cannons.

[RayJ]

I'm betting Marines have more than one wound, and terminators more than Marines. Single d6 rolls for armor.

[JR-Jack]

With templates being gone, does this mean that you'll be able to overwatch and snapfire with weapons that were previosuly blasts, like Plasma Cannons? If so, then with our chapter tactics that's going to work out as a nice buff, I think. Also because I love plasma cannons.

It will be interesting to see if we get chapter tactics in the first version of the rules. It looks like there will be basic rules for everything across ?five? 'Grand Alliance' books at launch so Dark Angels will be bundled in at least with other Space Marines and possibly with all the Armies of the Imperium. It'll be good to play from the start but presumably more detail will come with eventual codex releases. We therefore might loose the overwatch related special rules for a bit (I don't know this and I hope not but speculate based on the fact that the first cut of the rules could be fairly light touch).

[dtse]

yea, guess we'll see, but they mentioned yesterday specifically that marines will still have chapter tactics.