Geoffy Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hey guys, Just wanted to get some feedback on my primarchs chosen Horus list to see if there were any ways you thought to improve it. Thanks! Horus Legiones Astartes Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Terminator armour (Cataphractii); power weapon (axe) 130 Horus the Warmaster 500 Chaplain: Crozius Arcanum (axe); artificer armour; plasma pistol; refractor field 120 7 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 6 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 5 × combi-bolter; 2 × power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 295 7 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 6 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 5 × combi-bolter; 2 × power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 295 5 Justaerin Terminators: 5 × combi-weapon; 3 × power fist; 2 × chainfist 325 Spartan Assault Tank: auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade; frag assault launchers 395 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 220 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 220 2,500 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 So my thoughts on how I was planning to do things... Sicarans are AA and general dakka. They also provide mobile cover for the footslogging terminators if need be. Death Star is the most death starry Death Star evar. They all go in the spartan. Footslogging termies are meant to handle marines and a little of everything. They can outflank if need be to get them across the table quicker or just advance along with the scary tanks to protect from podding things. Size is good to handle some losses and still be able to abuse merciless fighters. Horus is Horus. Just some of my thoughts. Interested to hear yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Footslogging terminators are generally pretty bad. They are an assault unit, so they need to get close enough to assault, yet just being on foot they are easy to avoid and pick off piecemeal. Plus I don't see how you'd outflank them, can't think of any way to give them outflank in this list unless I'm missing something. If you really want to make a terminator heavy list work, I'd take out the sicarans, take two land raiders instead. Have two 2 man terminator units, then one big justerin unit in the spartan. In that case, you'd also need more anti tank so I'd give one terminator unit full combi melta/plas and 2-3 chainfists. If you need more pts, can always drop a character since you have a lot of pts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Footslogging terminators are generally pretty bad. They are an assault unit, so they need to get close enough to assault, yet just being on foot they are easy to avoid and pick off piecemeal. Plus I don't see how you'd outflank them, can't think of any way to give them outflank in this list unless I'm missing something. If you really want to make a terminator heavy list work, I'd take out the sicarans, take two land raiders instead. Have two 2 man terminator units, then one big justerin unit in the spartan. In that case, you'd also need more anti tank so I'd give one terminator unit full combi melta/plas and 2-3 chainfists. If you need more pts, can always drop a character since you have a lot of pts there. Horus grants Outflank to any unit in Reserve. I like these suggestions as well, but losing both Sicarans will be crippling to the lists ranged capabilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Right, that would do it.. If you're trying to fit 20 terminators and Horus into a 2500 list and have the list be effective, not really going to have much room for long range firepower anyway. You could go down to two terminator units and keep some of the sicarans, but only two infantry scoring units is too few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Appreciate the feedback. Yea I realize I'm toeing the line here a bit. I'm not opposed to dropping the chappy and moving some points around if you think there is another unit that would help significantly. I also have to be wary of the restriction that I have to have more units with legiones astartes than without. That's part of the reason I looked to increase the terminator squad size since adding transports just won't work and they cannot deepstrike with this RoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Out of interest, why Primarch's Chosen? You gain virtually no benefits, it might be more advantageous to tweak the list slightly and run a different RoW (Long March, PoTL etc) in order to obtain better bonuses while barely changing the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Out of interest, why Primarch's Chosen? You gain virtually no benefits, it might be more advantageous to tweak the list slightly and run a different RoW (Long March, PoTL etc) in order to obtain better bonuses while barely changing the list. Well potl doesn't really give me anything either with the way the list is currently built except I would now have to add a praetor. I picked this RoW to not have to pay the HQ tax and just take a primus for my Death Star. The chappy was added to fill in points and make that unit even nastier. I have other lists using long march. I'm basically trying to make a Horus list work. Is there something I could move around or tweak that you think would make this list stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Horus 2 Legiones Astartes Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Terminator armour (Cataphractii); power weapon (axe) 130 Praetor in Terminator armour: Rite of War (Orbital Assault); Terminator armour (Cataphractii); combi-bolter; Paragon blade (master-crafted); digital lasers 185 6 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 5 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 4 × combi-bolter; power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 265 6 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 5 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 4 × combi-bolter; power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 265 10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; 2 × heavy bolter and suspensor web 245 • Drop Pod 35 10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; 2 × heavy bolter and suspensor web 245 • Drop Pod 35 5 Justaerin Terminators: 5 × combi-weapon (plasma); 3 × power fist; 2 × chainfist 325 Xiphon Pattern Interceptor: ground-tracking auguries; chaff launcher; armoured cockpit 225 Horus the Warmaster 500 2,455 points Okay. I made some changes. This uses orbital assault. Still has Horus. The termies can deep strike. AA is provided by the xiphon. Vet squads deepstrike onto objectives or forward to allow termies to ds off their nuncio vox. Still have some points left around. I was also thinking maybe making the praetor a tribune and ds him with one of the Tartaros squads might spread out the awesome a bit. Your guys' thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angmarred Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Horus has MotL. You dont need a Praetor. A Chaplain works as your mandatory hq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Horus has MotL. You dont need a Praetor. A Chaplain works as your mandatory hq Unless I'm mistaken a legion support officer (chaplain and Medicae) cannot be the compulsory HQ for your list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angmarred Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Chaplain isn't a support officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Yeah, I would drop "Primarch's Chosen", take a Chaplain or Forge Lord as your Compulsory HQ, and utilise Horus' ability to field Vets or Justaerin as your Troops. This allows you to run any other Rite of War (like "Orbital Assault" or "Long March"). Also, Justaerin > Legion Terminators. Always go for Justaerin (except for Horus' unit, as he wants more mobility). What exactly do you want from your Sons of Horus army? Those are 2 very different lists - hard to advise on them unless you nail down which style you prefer! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Yeah, I would drop "Primarch's Chosen", take a Chaplain or Forge Lord as your Compulsory HQ, and utilise Horus' ability to field Vets or Justaerin as your Troops. This allows you to run any other Rite of War (like "Orbital Assault" or "Long March"). Also, Justaerin > Legion Terminators. Always go for Justaerin (except for Horus' unit, as he wants more mobility). What exactly do you want from your Sons of Horus army? Those are 2 very different lists - hard to advise on them unless you nail down which style you prefer! :) I'd really like to make some version of the first list work. I'm not opposed to dropping the Tartaros termies for more justaerin either or taking some vets and taking a new RoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 Horus Legiones Astartes Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Terminator armour (Cataphractii); power weapon (axe) 130 Chaplain: Crozius Arcanum (axe); artificer armour; refractor field 105 6 Justaerin Terminators: 6 × combi-weapon; 4 × power fist; 2 × chainfist 377 10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; legion vexilla; 2 × heavy bolter and suspensor web 235 • Rhino: dozer blade 40 10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; legion vexilla; 2 × heavy bolter and suspensor web 235 • Rhino: dozer blade 40 Spartan Assault Tank: auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade; frag assault launchers 395 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 220 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 220 Horus the Warmaster: Rite of War (Armoured Spearhead) 500 2,497 points What do you think of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 what's the purpose of taking Armoured Spearhead? you are using nothing from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 what's the purpose of taking Armoured Spearhead? you are using nothing from it? Improves my tank shock with the 5 tanks in the list. I could switch it to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I've had a read of all your different lists through the thread and the issue of the Justaerin deathstar keeps coming up. They are an expensive unit, with Horus AND the Spartan you have basically 50% of your list in one easy to avoid place. My suggestion would be to teleport Horus and Justaerin in if you are absolutely set on running them both. This saves you 400 points from the Spartan and it won't dictate how you build the rest of the list as much. A pair of Sicarans is great, Vets in Rhinos is great, and now you have a Heavy slot open and spare points for another unit. This could be a pair of Executioner Preds, a Sicaran Venator or Las Vindis, or you could add more Vet in Rhinos squads. Another thing to consider is Horus grants Outflank to anything in Reserve. Outflanking Cortus Contemptors with Chainfist and Grav would be good, or Outflanking Vets without Marksmen...maybe Machine Killers or Weaponmasters. Point being, Spartan Deathstars are done to bits and are usable in larger games, but at 2.5k it just isn't effective since you can be outplayed, by dedicated AT which will make your star footslog, or outmaneuvered by faster units or clever deployment. So here is a quick list I threw together that saves you points on some upgrades that are pointless (like the ones on the Sicarans) and on transport for your Spartan. The idea here is you have TWO deepstriking Tartaros Terminator squads (8man strong) to each go with Horus and Abaddon. They both have teleporting benefits, hit the ground Combi-plasma off and charge next turn. Both units can run etc if need be as well, Horus can be split off from his unit and charge a separate unit entirely and do well. You have a AT dedicated Vet squad who will Outflank thanks to Horus, another Outflanking CC Contemptor-Cortus for some extra punch and the pair of Sicarans, who always do good work. But now you also have a Sicaran Venator for some supreme AT. Just some thoughts on what is possible, footslogging Termies is not ideal but Deepstriking and hopefully catching a unit between both hammers here will be helpful...plus, your opponent will alter his deployment/movement to try and counter potential DS sites. Also, I dropped the Justaerin here because they are fairly expensive, stop your HQ from running and and can still be Instant Deathed by S8+. +++ New Roster (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy v68) (2498pts) +++ ++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List v257) (2498pts) ++ + HQ (215pts) + Ezekyle Abaddon (215pts) [Power Sword] + Elites (175pts) + Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (175pts) Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun] + Troops (993pts) + Legion Terminator Squad (359pts) [2x Chainfist, 6x Combi-Weapon, 7x Legion Terminators, 4x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon, Power Fist] Legion Terminator Squad (359pts) [2x Chainfist, 6x Combi-Weapon, 7x Legion Terminators, 4x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon, Power Fist] Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (275pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Machine Killers] Additional Wargear [2x Meltagun] Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade, MultiMelta] Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Thunder Hammer] + Heavy Support (615pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (210pts) [Accelerator Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (210pts) [Accelerator Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter] Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (195pts) [Dozer Blade] + Legion + Legiones Astartes [ XVI: Sons of Horus, Traitor] Rite of War [The Long March] + Lords of War (500pts) + Horus the Warmaster (500pts) Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 I've had a read of all your different lists through the thread and the issue of the Justaerin deathstar keeps coming up. They are an expensive unit, with Horus AND the Spartan you have basically 50% of your list in one easy to avoid place. My suggestion would be to teleport Horus and Justaerin in if you are absolutely set on running them both. This saves you 400 points from the Spartan and it won't dictate how you build the rest of the list as much. A pair of Sicarans is great, Vets in Rhinos is great, and now you have a Heavy slot open and spare points for another unit. This could be a pair of Executioner Preds, a Sicaran Venator or Las Vindis, or you could add more Vet in Rhinos squads. Another thing to consider is Horus grants Outflank to anything in Reserve. Outflanking Cortus Contemptors with Chainfist and Grav would be good, or Outflanking Vets without Marksmen...maybe Machine Killers or Weaponmasters. Point being, Spartan Deathstars are done to bits and are usable in larger games, but at 2.5k it just isn't effective since you can be outplayed, by dedicated AT which will make your star footslog, or outmaneuvered by faster units or clever deployment. So here is a quick list I threw together that saves you points on some upgrades that are pointless (like the ones on the Sicarans) and on transport for your Spartan. The idea here is you have TWO deepstriking Tartaros Terminator squads (8man strong) to each go with Horus and Abaddon. They both have teleporting benefits, hit the ground Combi-plasma off and charge next turn. Both units can run etc if need be as well, Horus can be split off from his unit and charge a separate unit entirely and do well. You have a AT dedicated Vet squad who will Outflank thanks to Horus, another Outflanking CC Contemptor-Cortus for some extra punch and the pair of Sicarans, who always do good work. But now you also have a Sicaran Venator for some supreme AT. Just some thoughts on what is possible, footslogging Termies is not ideal but Deepstriking and hopefully catching a unit between both hammers here will be helpful...plus, your opponent will alter his deployment/movement to try and counter potential DS sites. Also, I dropped the Justaerin here because they are fairly expensive, stop your HQ from running and and can still be Instant Deathed by S8+. +++ New Roster (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy v68) (2498pts) +++ ++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List v257) (2498pts) ++ + HQ (215pts) + Ezekyle Abaddon (215pts) [Power Sword] + Elites (175pts) + Contemptor-Cortus Class Dreadnought Talon (175pts) Cortus Dreadnought [Chainfist with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with inbuilt twin-linked Bolter, 2x Graviton Gun] + Troops (993pts) + Legion Terminator Squad (359pts) [2x Chainfist, 6x Combi-Weapon, 7x Legion Terminators, 4x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon, Power Fist] Legion Terminator Squad (359pts) [2x Chainfist, 6x Combi-Weapon, 7x Legion Terminators, 4x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon] Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon, Power Fist] Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (275pts) [9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Machine Killers] Additional Wargear [2x Meltagun] Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier [Dozer Blade, MultiMelta] Legion Veteran Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Thunder Hammer] + Heavy Support (615pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (210pts) [Accelerator Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter] Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (210pts) [Accelerator Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon Sponsons, Pintle-mounted Heavy Bolter] Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer (195pts) [Dozer Blade] + Legion + Legiones Astartes [ XVI: Sons of Horus, Traitor] Rite of War [The Long March] + Lords of War (500pts) + Horus the Warmaster (500pts) Created with BattleScribe Really appreciate this feeeback. I'm trying to work all this advice into something I like. I originally figured I wanted to run Horus since he's the best primarch but it's been so frustrating due to cost I might just have to run my maloghurst and co list since I feel like I get so much more stuff...lemme see if I can come up with something and I'll throw it up here in a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 Horus AS-LM Legiones Astartes Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Terminator armour (Cataphractii); power weapon (axe) 130 Chaplain in Terminator armour: Crozius Arcanum (axe); Terminator armour (Cataphractii); combi-bolter 120 6 Justaerin Terminators: 5 × combi-weapon; 4 × power fist; 2 × chainfist 370 5 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist); 4 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; plasma blaster 215 • Land Raider Phobos: dozer blade; extra armour; armoured ceramite; frag assault launchers 265 5 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist); 4 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; plasma blaster 215 • Land Raider Phobos: dozer blade; extra armour; armoured ceramite; frag assault launchers 265 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 210 Sicaran Battle Tank: dozer blade; armoured ceramite; 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters 210 Horus the Warmaster: Rite of War (The Long March) 500 2,500 points How's this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 Horus OA Legiones Astartes Primus Medicae in Terminator armour: Terminator armour (Cataphractii); power weapon (axe) 130 Chaplain in Terminator armour 120 7 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 6 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 8 × combi-bolter; 2 × power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 295 7 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist; grenade harness); 6 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 5 × combi-bolter; 2 × power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 295 10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines; nuncio-vox; legion vexilla; 2 × heavy bolter and suspensor web 245 • Drop Pod 35 7 Justaerin Terminators: 6 × combi-weapon (plasma); 4 × power fist; 3 × chainfist 427 Xiphon Pattern Interceptor: ground-tracking auguries; chaff launcher; armoured cockpit 225 Xiphon Pattern Interceptor: ground-tracking auguries; chaff launcher; armoured cockpit 225 Horus the Warmaster: Rite of War (Orbital Assault) 500 2,497 points A second option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 And something completely different (ish) Loken Legiones Astartes Garviel Loken: Rite of War (The Black Reaving) 175 Master of Signal: artificer armour; refractor field 115 10 Reavers: Reaver Chieftain (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs); 9 Reavers; 5 × chainaxe; 2 × power weapon; 2 × flamer; jump packs 335 20 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs); 19 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 305 20 Tactical Space Marines: Tactical Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist; melta bombs); 19 Tactical Space Marines; chainswords; legion vexilla 305 Apothecarion Detachment • Apothecary: artificer armour 55 • Apothecary: artificer armour 55 9 Terminators: Terminator Sergeant (combi-bolter; chainfist); 8 Terminators; Terminator armour (Tartaros); 6 × combi-bolter; 4 × power weapon; 3 × lightning claw; chainfist; plasma blaster 345 • Spartan Assault Tank: auxiliary drive; armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade; frag assault launchers 395 Javelin Attack Speeder Squadron • Javelin Attack Speeder: 2 × hunter-killer missiles 65 • Javelin Attack Speeder: 2 × hunter-killer missiles 65 10 Heavy Support Marines: Heavy Support Sergeant; 9 Heavy Support Marines; missile launchers 285 2,500 points You can tell I've been listhammering for far too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I suppose now you just need to pick a theme for your army, those two lists are entirely dependent on if you want tanks or aircraft. Edit: The third list is illegal, Black Reaving needs Fast>Heavy so you would need to field the Javelins separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffy Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 I suppose now you just need to pick a theme for your army, those two lists are entirely dependent on if you want tanks or aircraft. Edit: The third list is illegal, Black Reaving needs Fast>Heavy so you would need to field the Javelins separately. How do you think the third list stacks up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangaman Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Not as well, 10 Reavers cost the same as your 10 Terminators and Tactical blobs aren't going to achieve much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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