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I've decided to build a Dark Angels Battle Demi-Company


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#1
Warsmith Krast

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Or a CAD or something. I dunno, not overly fond of formations for how restrictive they are, but Obsec on everything in the formation sounds pretty okay, and the +1 BS on Overwatch or full BS if I just take a Scout squad or two sounds useful enough, though I might just take a CAD since neither of those benefits sound overly useful. I've decided on Dark Angels instead of another chapter or any sucessors because I like their color schemes, their unique models, upgrade kits, and especially their fluff. Also because their rhino pack has some ridiculous savings. Seriously, that has some nice savings.

Right now I'm thinking of how I want to equip everything. I'm thinking Plasma Guns and Combi-plas on the Tacticals, Sniper Rifle Scouts with a Missile Launcher and Bolter Scouts with a Heavy Bolter, maybe Flamers on the Assault squad and an Eviscerator and Combat Shield on the Assault squad Sergeant because that sounds really cool. I'm not sure what to give the Devastators though. Missile Launchers would definitely be a cheap option since the Tactical kit comes with one, so I could easily get four just by buying the three kits, or I could get a second Devastator box and have four of each weapon. Plasma Cannons seem like they'd be fun, and somewhat fluffy as well. Lascannons and Multi-meltas would easily be able to take care of vehicles. I'm still thinking how to equip the Company Master, maybe a Jump Pack to go along with the Assault Squad? Or maybe put him with a Command Squad in a Razorback or something.
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#2
Kasper_Hawser

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Greetings.

 

I think you are on the right track, generally the tacs should be armed with plasma or grav weaponry, combi or otherwise.

 

I would firmly recommend you tool at least one command team or veteran squad with combi-meltas/melta guns for tank busting in drop pod. Combi grav works too though you will have to get lucky to immobilize vehicles.

 

the assault squad is good enough with two flamers and one combi flamer for maximum torch. I wouldn't bother with the eviscerator, but if you think its cool, go for it.

 

If you going CAD, might wanna grab some ravenwing bikes.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#3
Warsmith Krast

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Yeah, definitely need melta or something. I haven't written up a list yet, more just writing out what I think I want so far. Yeah, the Eviscerator doesn't really seem all that good if he has to fight anything, since he'll have to rely on a 6++, but I think sinking any more points into the assault squad might be bad, but then again, if I made it a 10 man squad I could have two guys take them and kit out the sergeant for challenges if I attach a jump pack Company Champion, maybe. It'd be expensive, but it could kill a lot of stuff.
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#4
PhilB

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The only issue with those fluffy plasma cannons is they offer you nothing when it comes to full BS overwatch, something to bear in mind while planning your army if you're keen on a battle demi company &/or lion's blade.

Definitely flamers for the assault squads, I can't tell you how awesome a min. assault squad with 2 flamers and a combi-flamer coming in turn 1 via drop pod is. Literally, I can't, you just have to see it for yourself.

 

Recommend you do one of two things, or both even if you can;

1. Magnetize all the special and heavy weapons you can. It's a lot of work but well worth it imo.

2. Wait for 8th ED. The rumors are July'ish and who knows what will happen to well, everything from weapon profiles to formations when it does. I'm not making any more purchases till after then because how you want to play could change considerably in a few short months.


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#5
GreyRavenC

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I'm just going to echo the guys above, combi-flamer has more use than the Eviscerator, it's too overpriced to be usefull (like a powerfist).

Plasma cannons seem nice in the theory, but you'll lose more guys to Gets Hot than by the enemy, and your small blasts will probably scatter everywhere (the Dice Gods HATE plasma cannons).

 

Best to magnetise your devastators, since I alternate between all Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher and Lascannons. But contrary to PhilB, I recommend you magnetise the torso/legs, since the heavies have wires and belts everywhere, magnetising that stuff is almost impossible. I had trouble just glueing the damn things together. The kit with the Assault marines come with 5 extra torsos and powerpack that you can use.


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#6
dtse

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Check out solracs thread on lions blade.

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#7
Warsmith Krast

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The only issue with those fluffy plasma cannons is they offer you nothing when it comes to full BS overwatch, something to bear in mind while planning your army if you're keen on a battle demi company &/or lion's blade.
Definitely flamers for the assault squads, I can't tell you how awesome a min. assault squad with 2 flamers and a combi-flamer coming in turn 1 via drop pod is. Literally, I can't, you just have to see it for yourself.
 
Recommend you do one of two things, or both even if you can;
1. Magnetize all the special and heavy weapons you can. It's a lot of work but well worth it imo.
2. Wait for 8th ED. The rumors are July'ish and who knows what will happen to well, everything from weapon profiles to formations when it does. I'm not making any more purchases till after then because how you want to play could change considerably in a few short months.

That is true regarding the Plasma Cannons, which is a shame, because I really like them. Drop pod the Assault Marines rather than give them Jump Packs? I dunno, the extra movement and special rules from the packs seem worth it to me. I don't know how to magnetize, but I suppose I should learn, especially when it comes to the bigger stuff, like Land Raiders or Predators. You have a good point about 8th ed, and I don't know when I'll be finished with the rest of all the stuff I have.

I'm just going to echo the guys above, combi-flamer has more use than the Eviscerator, it's too overpriced to be usefull (like a powerfist).
Plasma cannons seem nice in the theory, but you'll lose more guys to Gets Hot than by the enemy, and your small blasts will probably scatter everywhere (the Dice Gods HATE plasma cannons).
 
Best to magnetise your devastators, since I alternate between all Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher and Lascannons. But contrary to PhilB, I recommend you magnetise the torso/legs, since the heavies have wires and belts everywhere, magnetising that stuff is almost impossible. I had trouble just glueing the damn things together. The kit with the Assault marines come with 5 extra torsos and powerpack that you can use.

A shame about the Eviscerator, they just seem so cool, especially since they could work as anti-vehicle. You're probably right about the plasma cannons, which sucks because I think they're really cool. Heavy Bolters sound fun, and I thought about Missile Launchers and Lascannons as well, since with Missile Launchers I could easily get four by using two from a couple tac kits, and Lascannons are pretty powerful. I hadn't thought about Heavy Bolters, but they'd seem like good anti infantry.

Are the combi-flamers really worth it? The sergeant loses 1A and the ability to charge if he ever fires the bolter half of it. I'd think a power weapon would be more worth it, wouldn't it?

Check out solracs thread on lions blade.

Will do!
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#8
GreyRavenC

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The only issue with those fluffy plasma cannons is they offer you nothing when it comes to full BS overwatch, something to bear in mind while planning your army if you're keen on a battle demi company &/or lion's blade.
Definitely flamers for the assault squads, I can't tell you how awesome a min. assault squad with 2 flamers and a combi-flamer coming in turn 1 via drop pod is. Literally, I can't, you just have to see it for yourself.
 
Recommend you do one of two things, or both even if you can;
1. Magnetize all the special and heavy weapons you can. It's a lot of work but well worth it imo.
2. Wait for 8th ED. The rumors are July'ish and who knows what will happen to well, everything from weapon profiles to formations when it does. I'm not making any more purchases till after then because how you want to play could change considerably in a few short months.

That is true regarding the Plasma Cannons, which is a shame, because I really like them. Drop pod the Assault Marines rather than give them Jump Packs? I dunno, the extra movement and special rules from the packs seem worth it to me. I don't know how to magnetize, but I suppose I should learn, especially when it comes to the bigger stuff, like Land Raiders or Predators. You have a good point about 8th ed, and I don't know when I'll be finished with the rest of all the stuff I have.

I'm just going to echo the guys above, combi-flamer has more use than the Eviscerator, it's too overpriced to be usefull (like a powerfist).
Plasma cannons seem nice in the theory, but you'll lose more guys to Gets Hot than by the enemy, and your small blasts will probably scatter everywhere (the Dice Gods HATE plasma cannons).
 
Best to magnetise your devastators, since I alternate between all Heavy Bolters, Missile Launcher and Lascannons. But contrary to PhilB, I recommend you magnetise the torso/legs, since the heavies have wires and belts everywhere, magnetising that stuff is almost impossible. I had trouble just glueing the damn things together. The kit with the Assault marines come with 5 extra torsos and powerpack that you can use.

A shame about the Eviscerator, they just seem so cool, especially since they could work as anti-vehicle. You're probably right about the plasma cannons, which sucks because I think they're really cool. Heavy Bolters sound fun, and I thought about Missile Launchers and Lascannons as well, since with Missile Launchers I could easily get four by using two from a couple tac kits, and Lascannons are pretty powerful. I hadn't thought about Heavy Bolters, but they'd seem like good anti infantry.

Are the combi-flamers really worth it? The sergeant loses 1A and the ability to charge if he ever fires the bolter half of it. I'd think a power weapon would be more worth it, wouldn't it?

Check out solracs thread on lions blade.

Will do!

 

 

Of all combi-weapons, the combi-flamer is the best of them by far. That one shot can always fail with a bad diceroll (imagine the pain of rolling double 1 on a combi-plasma), the flamer can never fail because of the template. Imagine this scenario: You drop the squad with a drop pod next to an enemy. You shoot with the pistols your marines have, the 2 flamers and call it done. Then you suffer a complete round of shooting from your enemy. Worst case scenario, that sergeant with the expensive powerweapon dies without even swinging the thing.

 

Now imagine the same scenario, but with a measly 10pt Combi-flamer. With some decent placement, you can fry your opponent with 3 flamer templates. The additional flamer can take out maybe 5 more guys. Sounds like losing one attack in CC would be a fair trade. Even squads with jump packs benefit from the flamers and combi, you can truly decimate squads before finishing them of in CC. Hammer of Wrath is just icing on the cake. When it comes to regular marines, the cheaper, the better

 

ML's and LC's on devastators are a reliable choice. The HB's aren't popular, but this won me the game a couple of times before, especially against Dark Eldar/Eldar and their jinking shenanigans. I even started using them with Tacticals. Lascannons rarely did something usefull for me.


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#9
OthnielsBlade

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You could always magnetise their backpacks/jump packs also; and run either based on your current needs/vision of your force.



#10
Warsmith Krast

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Of all combi-weapons, the combi-flamer is the best of them by far. That one shot can always fail with a bad diceroll (imagine the pain of rolling double 1 on a combi-plasma), the flamer can never fail because of the template. Imagine this scenario: You drop the squad with a drop pod next to an enemy. You shoot with the pistols your marines have, the 2 flamers and call it done. Then you suffer a complete round of shooting from your enemy. Worst case scenario, that sergeant with the expensive powerweapon dies without even swinging the thing.
 
Now imagine the same scenario, but with a measly 10pt Combi-flamer. With some decent placement, you can fry your opponent with 3 flamer templates. The additional flamer can take out maybe 5 more guys. Sounds like losing one attack in CC would be a fair trade. Even squads with jump packs benefit from the flamers and combi, you can truly decimate squads before finishing them of in CC. Hammer of Wrath is just icing on the cake. When it comes to regular marines, the cheaper, the better
 
ML's and LC's on devastators are a reliable choice. The HB's aren't popular, but this won me the game a couple of times before, especially against Dark Eldar/Eldar and their jinking shenanigans. I even started using them with Tacticals. Lascannons rarely did something usefull for me.

You're probably right about the combi-flamers, but to me it just doesn't feel right giving the Assault Squad Sergeant something that isn't a melee weapon, y'know what I mean? I'm probably going to end up giving him a power sword or something, maybe even the Eviscerator if I feel it looks cool enough or it gets buffed by the time 8e rolls around.

I was thinking about using Missile Launchers or Lascannons for my Devs, and was previously considering Plasma Cannons, though points have been made against their usage. Missile Launchers seem like pretty good for anything, S8 means they can hurt vehicles easily enough, though they can't cause an Explodes result if they pen because they're AP3, they're slightly cheaper than Lascannons for squeezing in points, and can function as AA if you pay the overcosted price. Lascannons look really strong at S9 AP2, meaning they can reliably hurt anything they can hit. I can see Heavy Bolters working against hordes, and forcing saves on tougher enemies. How do you use them on your tacs? Do you move them up to objectives and camp them there so the movement penalty for Heavy weapons doesn't really affect them or something?

You could always magnetise their backpacks/jump packs also; and run either based on your current needs/vision of your force.

I think I'll just give them the jump packs, though magnetizing seems like a useful skill to have.
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#11
dtse

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Just give them jump packs and tell your opponent if you didn't pay for them. You'd have to go to a pretty hardcore tournament where players would call you on that. Nobody expects people to magnetize jump packs.

Lascannons can be awesome for plinking off hull points on knights and vehicles and opponent drop pods, but just when you need them you will roll 1 and 2 lol. It's the curse of the melta gun. Missile launchers. No thanks. Plasma cannon? Don't like anything that can scatter and that I can kill myself with unless it's the only choice.

Depending on your meta and how competitive you wanna be, I would stick to grav and melta. Between those you can kill anything. And every transport not carrying a grav cannon should have a heavy bolter razorback. Massed heavy bolters does work but not on marines.

ultimately you will win more games from having so many obsec units and transports, and playing the mission, not from killing or tabling opponents. So don't be afraid to stack some units but have bare bones units just there to grab and hold objectives. As many people will tell you, a single alive obsec marine is as dangerous as a squad of 5.

That's my 2 cents.

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Kasper_Hawser

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actually there's one scenario where plasma cannons can be awesome. i believe there is one crazy fortification that can turn plasma cannon small blasts into LARGE blasts. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Of course, given GWs bias against plasma, that fortification while giving a 4+ cover save, will also backfire on you should you roll a 6 on the cover save I think, meaning in addition to the normal Gets Hot, there might be an additional hit of some sort coming from the fortification.

 

And of course, fortifications can only be taken in CAD, so Demi company will be out. Unless you take a very small CAD just for the fortification.

 

Just a thought.


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#13
dtse

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Not worth it. Can still kill yourself and scatter for too many points. If I'm gonna buy a fortification and take a CAD just for that I'd rather park a bunch of las cannons behind a ammo crate instead to reroll 1s

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#14
MoK

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It's funny isn't it, that Plasma is supposed to be DAs thing, but it's crap. Personally to keep points down, I take Melta across the board. My guys are in transports so I can get them where I need them quick enough.

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Kasper_Hawser

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Strangely enough, I rely on plasma for my Grey Hunters more than melta, especially when running MSU of 5 each in a rhino/razorback. Even for drop pods, I rather count on the multi-shot plasma guns rather than the hit or miss meltas.

 

It always seems like GW has a hard on only for Codex compliant chapters so whatever fluff advantages other non-codex compliant chapters have normally can't compare to vanilla codex. So the plasma specialty of the Dark Angels somehow only translates in the Deathwing terminator able to carry plasma cannons along with the unique Ravenwing Black Knights whose bikes have plasma guns. 

 

Anyway, just go with your whatever your original list, the plasma cannon still have some use as a heavy weapon camper. Much longer range than most weapons and hopefully, the enemy will forget about them until somehow the blast finally hits and takes some precious enemy snowflake with them,


"The 6th Legion has a reputation." said Bear.
"All the Legions Astartes have reputations," replied Hawser.
"Not like ours," said Ogvai "We are known for our ferocity. We are thought to be feral and undisciplined. Even brother Legions consider us to be wild and bestial."
"And you're not ?" asked Hawser.
"If we need to be," said Ogvai. "but if that was our natural state, we'd all be dead by now."
He leaned down towards Hawser like a parent addressing a child.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous" he said.

 

Excerpt from "Prospero Burns" by Dan Abnett


#16
Warsmith Krast

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Just give them jump packs and tell your opponent if you didn't pay for them. You'd have to go to a pretty hardcore tournament where players would call you on that. Nobody expects people to magnetize jump packs.
Lascannons can be awesome for plinking off hull points on knights and vehicles and opponent drop pods, but just when you need them you will roll 1 and 2 lol. It's the curse of the melta gun. Missile launchers. No thanks. Plasma cannon? Don't like anything that can scatter and that I can kill myself with unless it's the only choice.
Depending on your meta and how competitive you wanna be, I would stick to grav and melta. Between those you can kill anything. And every transport not carrying a grav cannon should have a heavy bolter razorback. Massed heavy bolters does work but not on marines.
ultimately you will win more games from having so many obsec units and transports, and playing the mission, not from killing or tabling opponents. So don't be afraid to stack some units but have bare bones units just there to grab and hold objectives. As many people will tell you, a single alive obsec marine is as dangerous as a squad of 5.
That's my 2 cents.

Nah, if I model them with Jump Packs, I'll pay for them. Yeah, Lascannons seem pretty strong. What's wrong with Missile Launchers? Is it because they're not AP2? Yeah, Plasma Cannons don't seem as good as I wish they were, which is a shame. I like melta weapons, but I feel like the plasma gun would be better, since it's the same range as the bolters so it can be fired from the same distances. I'm not fond of grav at all, it just seems to be way too good for what it does. I'll agree with you on the Objective Secured, because I think that's the most appealing part of the Battle Demi-Company.

actually there's one scenario where plasma cannons can be awesome. i believe there is one crazy fortification that can turn plasma cannon small blasts into LARGE blasts. correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Of course, given GWs bias against plasma, that fortification while giving a 4+ cover save, will also backfire on you should you roll a 6 on the cover save I think, meaning in addition to the normal Gets Hot, there might be an additional hit of some sort coming from the fortification.
 
And of course, fortifications can only be taken in CAD, so Demi company will be out. Unless you take a very small CAD just for the fortification.
 
Just a thought.

Nah, I don't think I'll want to use that, though it granting large blasts is interesting.

Not worth it. Can still kill yourself and scatter for too many points. If I'm gonna buy a fortification and take a CAD just for that I'd rather park a bunch of las cannons behind a ammo crate instead to reroll 1s

I think I agree with you here.

It's funny isn't it, that Plasma is supposed to be DAs thing, but it's crap. Personally to keep points down, I take Melta across the board. My guys are in transports so I can get them where I need them quick enough.

Yeah, it's a real shame about that, I wish Plasma Cannons and Plasma Pistols were worth taking.

Strangely enough, I rely on plasma for my Grey Hunters more than melta, especially when running MSU of 5 each in a rhino/razorback. Even for drop pods, I rather count on the multi-shot plasma guns rather than the hit or miss meltas.
 
It always seems like GW has a hard on only for Codex compliant chapters so whatever fluff advantages other non-codex compliant chapters have normally can't compare to vanilla codex. So the plasma specialty of the Dark Angels somehow only translates in the Deathwing terminator able to carry plasma cannons along with the unique Ravenwing Black Knights whose bikes have plasma guns. 
 
Anyway, just go with your whatever your original list, the plasma cannon still have some use as a heavy weapon camper. Much longer range than most weapons and hopefully, the enemy will forget about them until somehow the blast finally hits and takes some precious enemy snowflake with them,

Yeah, I think Plasma guns might be better than melta in some aspects, like having two shots at 12" rather than 1, though melta is great for ID'ing T4 and hurting vehicles, plasma can hurt weaker vehicles easily enough. I like that Deathwing can carry plasma cannons and racenwing black knights are cool too. I thibk you're probably right in just going with whatever, since Plasma Cannons can still do damage.
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#17
robofish7591

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Being this close to an edition change I would just model what you like the look of.  We have no idea how effective certain weapons may be in the new edition, missile launchers and heavy bolters could be the go to thing in 8th for all we know!  Demi companies might not even have the same bonuses that they do currently, that is why I would advise you to put something together that you are going to be more interested in modeling and painting.  If you have any worries about the new edition then just wait it out and work on stuff that is going to be necessary like bolter marines and what not, and save all the special weapons until later when you know what they do.






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