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Fixing Space Wolves Units in 8th Edition


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#201
Wolf Guard Dan

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Wasn't Swarmlord always an HQ though? We can't extrapolate what may happen to Grimnar from what happened with Swarmy. There is still a very good chance the Grimnar become an HQ again, especially with guys like Reece and Frankie as part of the process.

 

I can see chariot-Grimnar getting stats between what he is now and a primarch this edition. I expect T7-8 and 9-10 wounds on chariot. Although I do not expect him to be as killy as Roboute. Maybe still a character to be able to get look out sir and run with TWC.

 

Edit: grammar


Edited by Wolf Guard Dan, 22 May 2017 - 11:37 PM.

*wolf howl*!!!!
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#202
Valerian

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Just double-checked their 6e codex (most recent version), and yes, the Swarmlord was, in fact, a HQ choice.  He was 285 points, though, and probably would have been an LoW if the Tyranids had ever received a 7e version of the book.

 

Either way, we'll know soon enough.



#203
Valerian

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Based on that new Primaris Ancient, I hope they also make this guy a Character, rather than a Grey Hunter with an upgrade.  Would be nice to get to slap him somewhere in the midst of the army and let his buff radius cover as many critical units as possible.  

 

 

gallery_23369_7312_550238.jpg


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#204
Valerian

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Copied from BA page:

 

 


Some rules are out.

Spoiler
 

 

 

 


Edited by Valerian, 23 May 2017 - 04:29 PM.


#205
jbickb

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Holy crap that's a lot of info in 2 pages, good job gw

Edited by jbickb, 23 May 2017 - 06:04 PM.

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#206
Valerian

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Gotta remember that the whole core rules are only about 12 pages.

#207
Karack Blackstone

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So, for those that don't know yet...

 

https://www.warhamme...arhammer-40000/

 

Forge World is putting out an Index book of the Adeptus Astartes assets and rules for pre-order on June 3, available June 17.

This book is likely to give nearly full or full access to all SM units where it makes sense, to BA, SW, and others that have "undue" limits on their choices within this book. This is going to be great, and will likely be a major game changer for the SW's.  Deredeo Dreadnoughts for SW? Also likely across the board access to nearly all if not all of the FW AA models? Yes!



#208
Hellrender

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Interesting.. Things with a minimum move moving off the table will be destroyed. Now they just go in ongoing reserves right?

#209
Fang_Guard23

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Interesting.. Things with a minimum move moving off the table will be destroyed. Now they just go in ongoing reserves right?

it says that if they move off the table its like they stalled and crashed or fled the battlefield. no more on going reserves. one of the things that they talked about is that if a unit in reserves is not on the board by the end of turn 3, they're counted as being destroyed. but that's in matched play

 

https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-4/



#210
Hellrender

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Yes i know, what i mean is, what does that mean for how flyers move? Currently they can only make a max pivot angle per turn if that makes sense, i believe 90 degrees. Which mean that a lot of times it would just fly off the table during the battle.

Now thay when they go off the tablr they are destroyed, i wonder of the limit on how far they pivot is removed.

#211
Valerian

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I would guess that it has.  I posted my thoughts on flyers in another thread, and will repost it below:

 

 

 


Yeah, so here's what I expect.  Clearly, I have no insider information, just taking what we know to be true with 8e so far and applying it to this case.  We know that the 'core rules' for 8e are about 12 pages long, and everything is being streamlined.  If it can be simplified in the game, it will have been.  They're not keeping any of that extra complexity that doesn't bring a whole lot of value to the game, so we can just expect that multiple modes for flight are simply gone.  

 

So, for any model in the "fluff" that can't just hover over one spot on the board, the designers would have given it a minimum move and a maximum move to reflect that.  These flyers can't just float in the air.  Think Ork Dakkajets and Burna-Bommers.

 

Any model that can hover without plummeting to the ground will just be given a regular, albeit large, Movement characteristic like every other model.  This'll show that they can float in the air over a single point, or zoom away across the battlefield (just like the Apache Gunship you mentioned).  Think Ork Deffkoptas, and Space Marine Land Speeders.

 

Then, to bring back a little of the cinematics for shooting at flyers, they'll probably do something simple that says, "models that shoot at units with the 'FLY' keyword that moved over XX inches in the previous turn have a -1 (or -2) To Hit."  Or something like that.  Anti-Air models, like the Hunter and Stalker will have a keyword that allows them to ignore that negative To Hit.

 

Simple and done.

 

 

V

 

 

 



#212
Triszin

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I might have to buy that index....

 

and a leviathan dread.....


banana


#213
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New unconfirmed rumor for today from somebody who supposedly went to 8e training:

 

"Plasma weapons have 2 firing modes, str 7 or str 8 damage 2. If they use the over charge value on a 1 to hit they instant die."

 

I'm so happy about this.  Only is dangerous to use if you try to overdo it, and use it in a manner in which it wasn't intended.  Love this change!


Edited by Valerian, 26 May 2017 - 01:57 PM.


#214
Runefyre

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Instant death as in no armor or invuln save? No thanks.

He is the Lord of Winter and War

He is the Executioner, and the most Loyal Son

He is the Fury and Savagery of the Storm

He is the Vengeance of a Galaxy Wronged

He is the Father of Heros, He Has Come

 


#215
Valerian

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Instant death as in no armor or invuln save? No thanks.

 

But that's only when you intentionally take an overload shot and roll a 1.  If you use it's 'normal' profile of Strength 7, D1 (not sure about AP), you're not in any danger at all.  This is a huge improvement, in my opinion.



#216
Runefyre

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Instant death as in no armor or invuln save? No thanks.

 

But that's only when you intentionally take an overload shot and roll a 1.  If you use it's 'normal' profile of Strength 7, D1 (not sure about AP), you're not in any danger at all.  This is a huge improvement, in my opinion.

 

Then what's the point of overcharged mode? If it's just take a wound then it's not so bad but if a deathwing terminator is just upped and removed because he rolled badly with his plasma cannon I'm gonna call bs.

 

Obviously we haven't seen the actual rule so this is all conjecture, but I'm not very sure about this.


He is the Lord of Winter and War

He is the Executioner, and the most Loyal Son

He is the Fury and Savagery of the Storm

He is the Vengeance of a Galaxy Wronged

He is the Father of Heros, He Has Come

 


#217
Valerian

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Instant death as in no armor or invuln save? No thanks.

 
But that's only when you intentionally take an overload shot and roll a 1.  If you use it's 'normal' profile of Strength 7, D1 (not sure about AP), you're not in any danger at all.  This is a huge improvement, in my opinion.

 

Then what's the point of overcharged mode?

 

 
The point of overcharged mode is to make it easier To Wound, and to do more guaranteed Damage. Since the S vs T has changed, a Strength 7 weapon, like the Plasma gun, will no longer wound Marines on a 2+. It'll take a 3+ now. So, in a typical scenario, your Grey Hunters are going to want to use the safe 'standard' firing mode for their Plasma, although it is a little less deadly than it was in 7e.

However, if a unit of enemy Assault Terminators teleports down in front of your Grey Hunters, but doesn't make it's 9" charge range this turn, in your Shooting phase, those Grey Hunters armed with Plasma weapons (2x Plasma Guns, Combi-Plasma on the Wolf Guard Leader, and Plasma Pistol on a Grey Hunter) are all probably going to want to take a small risk and shoot in 'overcharged' mode to ensure they kill as many of those enemy Terminators that are about to demolish them in the next enemy turn. They'll die if any of them roll a 1 on their To Hit roll, but they were about to die anyway. And this way, any that don't miss have good odds on killing a 2 Wound enemy Terminator outright.

 

If it's just take a wound then it's not so bad but if a deathwing terminator is just upped and removed because he rolled badly with his plasma cannon I'm gonna call bs.
 
Obviously we haven't seen the actual rule so this is all conjecture, but I'm not very sure about this.


That Deathwing Terminator would only take 1 mortal Wound, so he'd have another Wound leftover, but it would only be a risk, again, if he chose to fire in overload mode.  EDIT: corrected to say, yes, I suppose he'd be killed outright, since that's what the rumor originally said (I misremembered and started thinking mortal wound), but it is easily avoided by not trying overcharged shots unless under extreme circumstances, such as just above.

 

V


Edited by Valerian, 26 May 2017 - 04:18 PM.

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#218
Brother Ramses

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The new Gravis Captain has Rites of Battle that allow to hit rolls if 1 be retooled for units within 6" and specifically hints at Hellblasters.

So overcharge all day long as long as your Gravis Captain is within 6"!
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#219
Gherrick

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The Gravis captain is such a beast, it makes our current wolf lords pretty weak by comparison. It will be interesting to see how our named hqs will be spec'd.

Edited by Gherrick, 26 May 2017 - 05:00 PM.


#220
Brother Ramses

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The Gravis captain is such a beast, it makes our current wolf lords pretty weak by comparison. It will be interesting to see how our named hqs will be spec'd.


Tactical Squads had their stats in an article and they stayed the same. If Primaris Marines leader is a Gravis Captain, then I am going to hazard a guess that our Wolf Lords are going to be crap if GH retain their stat line like Tacticals did.
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#221
jbickb

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Perhaps not though, as with the changes to how characters work, bubble wrap is no longer a thing, so hopefully they took that into account with the complete rebalance everything has undergone
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#222
Garreck

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Tactical Squads had their stats in an article and they stayed the same. If Primaris Marines leader is a Gravis Captain, then I am going to hazard a guess that our Wolf Lords are going to be crap if GH retain their stat line like Tacticals did.

 

Counter point: standard terminators now have two wounds instead of one.  So not everything old is keeping the same (inferior) stats.  I'm eager to see what our Wolf Lords (or indeed any standard marine captain) bring to the table.  I don't think they'll be automatically outclassed, and hopefully they'll be points-valued appropriate to their ability as well.  If we can still put our lords on thunderwolves, that'll likely be head and shoulders superior to the Gravis dude anyway.

 

Pretty excited to see some more of the battle-forged compositions.  Elites-and-hq-only composition still in play (though that's available for everybody now haha.)  Also very pleased with the GW webstore "hint" that Grimnar will no longer be a lord of war. 

 

I'm super eager to see how this all plays out on the table. 



#223
Valerian

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I think we've now seen all 12 of the Detachments.

#224
Garreck

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Sorry, I worded that poorly.  I was excited to see the rest leaked.

 

I really like the potential for a la carte detachment combinations.  I wonder if any of our other character HQs (beyond Bjorn) give us extra command points?



#225
Valerian

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Ah, I see how you meant it now.  No telling, about the extra Command Point question.  That seems to be pretty special, and powerful, so I think it would be Bjorn only, for us.  

 

 

 

Regarding Wolf Lords, here is what I'd expect their Stat line to look like:

 

 

Wolf Lord   M: 6"  WS: 2+  BS: 2+  S: 4  T: 4  W: 5  A: 4  LD: 9  Sv: 3+

 

Abilities: ATSKNF, Belt of Russ (4++ Save), and something else.  Might be Rites of Battle, to make all Marine leaders more consistent (at least in the initial Index), or might be unique (along the lines of one of our old Sagas or Warlord Traits).  He'd also get whatever the Space Wolves' faction ability ends up being.

 

 

   So, taking a Thunderwolf Mount would put us right on par with the Gravis Primaris Captain, with a much better Movement Characteristic.  We know TWC upgrades will still be available, as the model is still there in the HQ section on the renovated GW web store, and they already said no models that they currently sell will be invalidated. 






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