HH to remain using 7th ed rules

[Gorgoff]

@skimask: Vlyka Fenryka Deathsworn Packs will definitely get that rule. In fact they do have it already. ;)

Why Breachers should have it is beyond my mind. Nothing in the fluff points towards that sort of thing. Maybe they reduce incoming damage by weapons like Flamethrowers or Battlecannons.

 

@teutonicavanger: Model placement IS a massive factor in 40k.

[Plaguecaster]

Well obviously ;) I meant characters won't be hidden in Death Star units where they can just tank wounds all day but be all on there own so more vulnerable to character assaination like in AOS. It'll really force players to actually play their characters differently than just shoving everything into a death star

[Charlo]

Yet another PRO of 8th:

 

Havoc Launchers useful again as they go back to two shots and can be fired at different targets <3

[Arkangilos]

How are they unreasonable? They have double the arc walkers usually have, despite that many of their weapons can't physically go to the extreme end of their arc.

 

Movement and positioning is the most important part of the game, if I can't get a shot off with with one weapon or another from my Walker or flyer, I expect to to be because of terrain constraining my positioning or my opponent manoeuvreing properly. There should be punishment for poor positioning when there's detailed rules for it; players don't get to helical array intercept in a 360, they get a 45 to each side.

Because any target that is straight in front of them, no matter what range, cannot be hit. There is basically an infinite hallway.

[gilt_imp]

8^th edition could certainly make some units/options more interesting to choose.

 

With the changes to twin-linked and flamers…

Tarantula Sentry Gun Batteries with twin-linked heavy flamers. Unit of 3 on sentry fire mode (360 degree fire arc) might be fun against hordes. Concealed as well.

 

Anyway not too long to go now to find out what is happening with the Heresy Rule system.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

How are they unreasonable? They have double the arc walkers usually have, despite that many of their weapons can't physically go to the extreme end of their arc.

Movement and positioning is the most important part of the game, if I can't get a shot off with with one weapon or another from my Walker or flyer, I expect to to be because of terrain constraining my positioning or my opponent manoeuvreing properly. There should be punishment for poor positioning when there's detailed rules for it; players don't get to helical array intercept in a 360, they get a 45 to each side.

Because any target that is straight in front of them, no matter what range, cannot be hit. There is basically an infinite hallway.

Limited arc of fire isn't new, many tank sponsons have an incredibly limited arc because of the hull blocking a lot of sight and traverse. A sicaran has almost as hard a time hitting a target that's in front of it with both sponsons as the knight that has a flat out defined 90.

 

Recognize that you don't get to always see with all of your vehicle weapons and position properly so you can actually get some shots off.

[Raktra]

At least a sponson actually has something blocking its movement...

[Memento Of Prospero]

That's the thing. Realistically, tanks don't usually shoot all their weapons at a single target. They are physically unable to do so most of the time. If you are going to limit your tank to firing at a single target, you need all the weapons to be able to do so. If not, then do not restrict it to a single target.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm not talking about realism though?

[Gorgoff]

<sigh> I wonder if we, when we all play the 8th in a year or so, still remember the anger it triggert.

[Arkangilos]

 

 

How are they unreasonable? They have double the arc walkers usually have, despite that many of their weapons can't physically go to the extreme end of their arc.

Movement and positioning is the most important part of the game, if I can't get a shot off with with one weapon or another from my Walker or flyer, I expect to to be because of terrain constraining my positioning or my opponent manoeuvreing properly. There should be punishment for poor positioning when there's detailed rules for it; players don't get to helical array intercept in a 360, they get a 45 to each side.

Because any target that is straight in front of them, no matter what range, cannot be hit. There is basically an infinite hallway.

Limited arc of fire isn't new, many tank sponsons have an incredibly limited arc because of the hull blocking a lot of sight and traverse. A sicaran has almost as hard a time hitting a target that's in front of it with both sponsons as the knight that has a flat out defined 90.

 

Recognize that you don't get to always see with all of your vehicle weapons and position properly so you can actually get some shots off.

Which would be fine if the knight had something blocking his arms. But it doesn't. The arms can realistically swivel to form an X in front of it. Yet they can't in the rules, hence the "unreasonable arcs of fire."

 

Basically, if the target is straight in front of you, 36 inches out, you can still only ever hit it with a maximum of ZERO guns. If you change your positioning do that it is not straight ahead of you, only one of your arms can shoot it.

 

Try this: hold your arms out straight ahead of you so they are parallel. Everything between your arms are safe from you, so if a kitten is destroying your house, you have to rotate so that only one of your arms can stop it. Your arms cannot cross your chest at any point of time. That's how the current rules are.

Here, I find something that better demonstrate this:

 

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/xhoon

[SkimaskMohawk]

The arms also can't rotate the 90 out if you have any of the forge world ones with cabling, or even just the end part of the gun. You get under 40 rotation physically. Do you want a ridiculous 180?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think this is all going to change going to 8th.

[Withershadow]

It's irrelevant in 8th because there are no more arcs or sides, everything is just a creature with various weapons. All vehicle guns can target individual enemy units too.

 

Breachers should just get a rerollable save, that's good enough considering they even get to roll vs lascannons.

[Arkangilos]

The arms also can't rotate the 90 out if you have any of the forge world ones with cabling, or even just the end part of the gun. You get under 40 rotation physically. Do you want a ridiculous 180?

You clearly aren't worth arguing with.

[depthcharge12]

@skimask

Hey man notice that units can assault from reserves in 8th? Perhaps we will get assault from outflanking again (your fear the flanks).

 

Would make Reavers awesome again not to mention all those crazy RoWs that let you outflank (Maru Skara/Gorgon/Chogorian).

[SkimaskMohawk]

@skimask

Hey man notice that units can assault from reserves in 8th? Perhaps we will get assault from outflanking again (your fear the flanks).

 

Would make Reavers awesome again not to mention all those crazy RoWs that let you outflank (Maru Skara/Gorgon/Chogorian).

Well they also mentioned that universal reserve is gone and that select units will have the ability to enter play via reserves. I imagine that units like reavers be able to outflank but with the cap on units in reserve it'll be more niche.

 

I'm a bit worried about things like the trygon tunnel plus command point reroll for your charge distance, for a low counter high-impact charge, but we'll see how 30k handles these things

[depthcharge12]

 

@skimask

Hey man notice that units can assault from reserves in 8th? Perhaps we will get assault from outflanking again (your fear the flanks).

 

Would make Reavers awesome again not to mention all those crazy RoWs that let you outflank (Maru Skara/Gorgon/Chogorian).

Well they also mentioned that universal reserve is gone and that select units will have the ability to enter play via reserves. I imagine that units like reavers be able to outflank but with the cap on units in reserve it'll be more niche.

 

I'm a bit worried about things like the trygon tunnel plus command point reroll for your charge distance, for a low counter high-impact charge, but we'll see how 30k handles these things

Don't forget the 1 CP reroll any one die too. I wonder if they can stack (though not likely due to not rerolling a reroll but we shall see).

 

I hope FW gets us some deets soon because reserves, deep striking drop pods, and teleportation play a yuuuuuuuge role in the current iteration.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yea the reroll is what I was talking about lmao. In aos a sylvaneth unit can basically choose to telephoto to board edges or close to forests with the standard 9" push back and can reroll a die per phase. Now while they're reasonable on the offence, the 1 wound 5+ save really helps balance them out. I'm just imagining MCs rampaging in but without as much of a balancing act

[Plaguecaster]

HQs are forced to run solo now you say ;) just play Death Guard and take a deathshroud terminator squad as your HQ :D

[Gorgoff]

HQs are forced to run solo now you say ;) just play Death Guard and take a deathshroud terminator squad as your HQ :D

IF they stay like they are.

[Marshal Loss]

WarhammerFest can't come soon enough. FW really should have released a blog and then provided more information at the event, rather than leaving us waiting here while 40k is getting snippets of information every single day.

[IronDrake28]

It feels like FW doesn't care about 40k at all really. Not that you can blame them, they have a lot on their plate.

[1000 Sons]

Fw care a lot about 40k. It was already stated that they are (or were, hopefully done now) working on redoing imperial armour book 1-13 to be fully 8th edition compliant.

[Marshal Rohr]

Fw care a lot about 40k. It was already stated that they are (or were, hopefully done now) working on redoing imperial armour book 1-13 to be fully 8th edition compliant.

 

Not books, units. The days of Imperial Armor updates are probably long gone.