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8th edition has me excited about the GK!


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#1
Ishagu

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For one our vehicles will be far stronger.
With all units being re-written, I think this faction can finally be as effective and fearsome on the tabletop as it is in the lore!

I've just spent the better part of a day re-basing all my 25mm PA GKs to 32mm bases in anticipation for the editions, and Voldus and Draigo are ready to lead the charge! :-D

Edited by Ishagu, 25 April 2017 - 11:50 AM.

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#2
Rurik the blessed

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Good...

I'm really hyped with this edition too. Most of all. the point that says all units are "Rebalanced"  not just in rules terms, but in points...

 

maybe we see cheaper paladins now.



#3
Ishagu

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Maybe we'll see Paladins with 4 Wounds each, faster movement and no way to Insta kill them? :-D

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#4
Gentlemanloser

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There's tough internal balance with our Codex.  Strikes versus Terminators.

 

Especially so if TDA goes back to 2d6 saves.  You would need an exceptionally good reason to chose a Strike Squad in the Troop Slot of GKT.

 

A lot of our viability will also depend on the 'Psychic' Phase.

 

Edit: We've seen with Custodians how our Paladin *could* be.  But then if we get buffed, won't they have to then rebuff Custodians themselves?


Edited by Gentlemanloser, 25 April 2017 - 11:58 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#5
Ishagu

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Yeah, Custodes should be even stronger but remember, no psychic powers and they should cost more too.
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#6
Myunch

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There's tough internal balance with our Codex. Strikes versus Terminators.

Especially so if TDA goes back to 2d6 saves. You would need an exceptionally good reason to chose a Strike Squad in the Troop Slot of GKT.

A lot of our viability will also depend on the 'Psychic' Phase.

Edit: We've seen with Custodians how our Paladin *could* be. But then if we get buffed, won't they have to then rebuff Custodians themselves?


Very excited to see how the new rules will affect us. I am loving the 2d6 save rumors I've been seeing.

I am extremely curious now of how our NDK will work if it becomes a walker or remains a monstrous creature, with the confirmation of them having their own damage table as well as them getting weaker as they take more wounds (not entirely sure if that's what the damage table is for though).

Also hoping they follow the trend of fluff-like armies they've been rolling out and all our units get Deep Strike (let me stop wishlisting now).

I have to say, for a while I was worried about how 8th would hit, but so far, what I've seen, the good ideas outweigh the bad ones imo.

#7
Gentlemanloser

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I don't think that will matter.  both Vehicles and MCs will have T and W stats (and saves!).  Plus both will have a 'damage chart'.

 

There might not even be a Walker/MC distinction any more!

 

I love the durability of 2d6 saves, and love the nod back to my RT era.  I'm hesitant about the time and pain it will take to roll individual 2d6 saves for my entire TDA army however. :/


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#8
newdigitalGK

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So here's something I haven't heard anyone think about... Force Weapons. Everyone has a toughness value so can a force weapon instent death anything now? What about mass shooting psilincer? 



#9
Myunch

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I love the durability of 2d6 saves, and love the nod back to my RT era. I'm hesitant about the time and pain it will take to roll individual 2d6 saves for my entire TDA army however. :/


I will embrace this, as drawn out as it may be, as I'm currently assuming this to be a buff to our TDA... unless of course Grav and Plasma type weapons have save modifiers of -6 or something crazy like that.

I wonder if this will change our tactics up a lot? Possibly allowing us to be in the open more often. One thing I have not seen is how the psychic phase will work or if it is going to change. Quite curious.

#10
Ishagu

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No need for more saves, easier to have more wounds.

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#11
Prot

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It's always been a small, specialized force though and it relies heavily on the Psychic phase. I am always going to be hesitant without knowing how they are handling the psychic phase. I mentioned it once in the Rumour thread and it blew up into a conversation that lead to its own thread in Amicus. So I know it is a very.... polarizing topic. But it will influence GK (for one) a lot.

 

I will say the way they've changed how weapons work, and lack of templates, I think carry over from Shadow Wars would be great. My Grey Knights love the Psilencer and the Psycannon there. I don't expect it to stay 100% the same, but the core aspects of the weapons seem very similar to what they're talking about in the video.



#12
Myunch

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It's always been a small, specialized force though and it relies heavily on the Psychic phase. I am always going to be hesitant without knowing how they are handling the psychic phase. I mentioned it once in the Rumour thread and it blew up into a conversation that lead to its own thread in Amicus. So I know it is a very.... polarizing topic. But it will influence GK (for one) a lot.

I will say the way they've changed how weapons work, and lack of templates, I think carry over from Shadow Wars would be great. My Grey Knights love the Psilencer and the Psycannon there. I don't expect it to stay 100% the same, but the core aspects of the weapons seem very similar to what they're talking about in the video.


Agreed. Any changes to the psychic phase could make or break us. Psychic phase is easily my favorite and I would love to continue to see the GK be bosses there.

In regards to shooting, I yearn for the day where I can look at my list and actually have to debate myself on which heavy weapon choice to take on my Terminators, key here being that both choices are viable. I love the look of the Psilencer and would love to be able to field them more often.

#13
Myunch

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https://www.warhamme...-unit-profiles/

Just saw this, found it quite interesting! It seems Terminators have a 2+ save? Possible that they don't save with 2d6? Hmmm

#14
newdigitalGK

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https://www.warhamme...-unit-profiles/

Just saw this, found it quite interesting! It seems Terminators have a 2+ save? Possible that they don't save with 2d6? Hmmm

I think the bigger thing is that Terminators have 2 wounds!

Also on top of that I'm thinking we will see a wound increase to a NDK as well. Pure conjecture from Dreadnaughts having 8 wounds! 


Edited by newdigitalGK, 25 April 2017 - 06:37 PM.

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#15
Prot

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Dreads might be the new NDK.

 

Good thing. I've wanted to do a GK Dread for eons and since I have about 4.8 billion dreadnaughts from all the starter sets over the years.

 

Excuse the repost but this is just easier than retyping the whole thing but I think it would be valid to GK players just as much if I repost this here:

 

 

Let me clarify a few things....

 

1st off I'm just using the Shadow Wars shooting examples because although 8th may not be identical... it certainly has indicated some strong similarities.

 

So Sustained fire:

A heavy bolter gets Sustained Fire 3. You doll 3 x D3 and that's how many shots you have. Three minimum, nine max. I love this since it makes some 'old' weapons usable again and adds further relevance to 'multimode' weapons like we have.

 

The wounding thing:

When they say anything can wound anything, the odds get worse and worse for stuff like Lasguns. So again borrowing from Shadow Wars (I don't know a 100 percent that this will be how it works...) Let's assume you hit, then you need a "6" on a roll of D6, if you get it, you may need another "6" on a roll of D6 to wound something like a Knight. So yes in theory a lasgun can take take down a Knight, but you could also win the lottery tonight too. smile.png

 

Damage Factor:

That's a lasgun example, but to add relevance to old/bad weapons, they could be using the Damage factor from Shadow Wars for those old weapons. So how this works in Shadow Wars is... a Krack Missile may only have one shot, but if the save is failed by the target, you deliver D3 wounds.

 

This example is completely me just guessing, but it makes sense to have 20-30 wound models, because the fact a lasgun -could- damage a Knight is less of a factor, but a Lascannon is probably going to have a much higher damage potential. This makes what GW said in their video truthful, but adds scale to what that means (if they use the mechanics of Shadow Wars).

 

I could be way off. But I'm using that system, and the fact we already have stuff like Frag Cannons that have changing statlines with distance qualifiers.

 

If my guess is close, or correct, I think this spells good things for us. The weapons are going through re-costing anyway, and the loss of templates is good for us... not as good as Astra, but still good for us.

 

Think of something like a Landraider... what if it had 26 hullpoints? You would need 4 lascannons, all hitting, all wounding, then all rolling a 6 on a D6 to get rid of your landraider. What about right now (7th edition)? Well you just need all 4 to hit and pen, and the landraider is gone. -OR- ONE lascannon hits, and immoblizes you for the game.

 

No one takes Landraiders, and this is why (well aside from Grav). They are iconic. We can see from today's Chart, that the Landraider example I'm giving just might be plausible:

 

New40kProfilesTacticalSqd.jpg

 

New40kProfilesDreadnought.jpg

 

New40kProfilesRobouteGuilliman.jpg

 

New40kProfilesTerminatorSqd.jpg

 

 

First note Dreadnaught wounds. Now what would you value a Corvus at? Or a Landraider?

 

Note the 2 wound marine terminators.

 

WS and BS seems to be a starting point for what you hit on instead of looking at a chart.

 

The "T" value on armour is exactly what I hoped for.


Edited by Prot, 25 April 2017 - 07:47 PM.

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#16
Trevak Dal

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I'm hoping 2 attacks base across the board, with pallies and puries getting 3 base, maybe knock it down to 1 if it's a power armor model with a special weapon.

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#17
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Now that we know the dreadnought stats, speculation on our dreadknight stats?

#18
Ishagu

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I think the Dreadknight will be T8 10 Wounds, 5 attacks, 2+ save :-)

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#19
Gentlemanloser

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So no 2d6 for TDA saves.

 

Makes sense.  Would slow the game down too much to roll saves individually for every wound you take in a TDA heavy army.

 

Edit: TDA on 1d6 confirmed from the rumour thread.

 

I'm now interested in whether EW/ID still exists.  Hopefully not, and ID is based around heavier weapons doing multiple wounds.

 

 

Edit2:

 

2W terminators.  Great, but shoot the internal balance of our Codex to hell.  Why take strikes over 2W Terminators?  I'm interested to see how GW approach this.


Edited by Gentlemanloser, 26 April 2017 - 07:51 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#20
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https://www.warhamme...-unit-profiles/

Just saw this, found it quite interesting! It seems Terminators have a 2+ save? Possible that they don't save with 2d6? Hmmm

I think the bigger thing is that Terminators have 2 wounds!
Also on top of that I'm thinking we will see a wound increase to a NDK as well. Pure conjecture from Dreadnaughts having 8 wounds!

On twitter, Pete Foley said they dont have a 2+ save, but they have other rules outside the basic profile that make them hard to kill. But 2 W, a 2+ save that isnt cancelled out completely by AP2, and possibly invulns and or re rolls. Plus no more ID in game from double T weapons.
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#21
Waking Dreamer

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I think the Dreadknight will be T8 10 Wounds, 5 attacks, 2+ save :-)

Not sure if the DK would be outright tougher (greater T, more W) than a Primarch.

Dreadknight: M10"/12", WS3+ BS3+ S6 TS6 A4 Ld9 Sv2+

This is with it's personal teleporter and doesn't make it clearly better than the dreadnought but both as viable options. Additional wargear would give variety in the two models roles/function.

Edited by Waking Dreamer, 26 April 2017 - 09:45 AM.


#22
Ishagu

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The Primarch will have other damage mitigation, not just the statline.

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#23
Deamon Wolf

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You know wihat GW is like they will give our termis 2 wounds but make them elites again
Then Paladins will be 3 wounds but so pointy it's not worth it

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Total Points Per army

Grey Knights                 12,950

Death Watch                  1000

Space Wolves                 3,480

Vilka Fenrika 30K            not sure but starting to build

Black Templars               3,500


#24
Prot

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You know wihat GW is like they will give our termis 2 wounds but make them elites again
Then Paladins will be 3 wounds but so pointy it's not worth it

 

I wouldn't count on that being true. I have a very positive feeling about GK, and heck... all the armies that are 'bottom feeders' right now. I feel very positive about the segment in the video where they claim: "This will be the most balanced version of 40K ever released."

 

Let's not get into a side debate on what that means. The reason I bring it up is because I think GW have finally come to play their own game. They've now seen it at its 'worst', they've been to LVO and witnessed those kinds of tournaments where people are using rules, and loop holes to create the most devastating, but least intended builds to win at the cost of background.

 

Literally we are down to 3-4 armies that win a no holds barred tournament. Maybe even 2-3 with Ynarri.... Regardless, I believe that GW figured out it's in everyone, (GW/us/buyers/new players/old players) to make the game much more balanced.

 

I really don't think Paladins will be out of this world expensive. But I do think the Grey Knights will remain a smallish, elite force, but at least it -should- make sense now. Paladins will be appropriately point costed. They will be strong, but I imaging, like always, they will be prone to massed firing, and hampered by slow movement. The Psychic Phase, and hopefully 'fixed' vehicles will help this.

 

I'm looking very forward to all of this. The idea that a Dreadnaught may compliment (not contend) with a Dreadknight is a very cool idea. The same goes for Landraiders which I have guessed are about 24-30 wounds, and will have improved lascannons.

 

A side note about Eternal Warrior. We now know "D" is gone. Let's assume "stomp" is too (I can't see it staying. If GW took care of shared rules/deathstars, then it's not needed). This makes Eternal Warrior great, but not quite what it was in 7th. BUT the bigger factor here is the multitude of Wounds acquired from the Damage modifier of some weapons. (I think it's in 8th because it's in Shadow Wars, and they've mentioned multi wound shooting options.)

 

So an eternal warrior (Hypothetical) character may not die from a Missile wound, however by failing one save, he could lose 3 wounds anyway.



#25
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I think Eternal Warrior will actually reduce weapons that cause multi wounds down to a single wound, as opposed to D3/D6

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