Prot's Take on BIG Changes for Deathwatch in 8th Edition

[Moostick]

I think that makes sense. Storm bolters are usually stock weapons, whereas you need to pay for HBs. 

 

Grey Knights have base costs less than our Veterans. They already have much better melee weapons stock, so it'd be kind of ridiculous if they get better guns stock as well.

[Silas7]

Yeah but to me the SB is the evolution of the TL bolter. regardless of what unit is carrying it. With what we know about twinlinking, SB's are going to have to change to stand apart.

 

Edit: maybe i didn't read moostick's post right.

[Moostick]

I agree from a fluff perspective, but not from a crunch one.

 

SBs are stock weapons for the rank and file of certain factions. It'll do a decent job, but should be something you'd want to swap out for something better if ever possible or reasonable to do so. I don't think SBs should be standing out as it should be an "unimpressive" weapon like regular bolters. They should be better than bolters, but still not a "go to" weapon.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

They're also popular upgrades for box-art Captains, so I'd like to see them at least be a worthy upgrade. They're no longer essentially -1 Attack, at least.

[Moostick]

Oh wow, Assault weapons are also -1 on To Hit rolls if they moved that turn.

Our Frag Cannons and IHBs

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

Advanced, not moved.

[Silas7]

You guys saw the leaked rules pages too?

[Moostick]

Advanced, not moved.

 

Thanks. Good catch; I was about to cry a little.

 

Primaris marine pts have been leaked as well. They're up there with Rubric Marines in costs. I'm not sure if an Inceptor is worth 55 53 pts though. At least based on this leak, it's clear they've at least thought of point discrepancies when choosing to take special/heavy weapons. Things are looking up for DW!

 

Edit: Points correction. Also after thinking about it...they are totally worth 53 pts each.

[Silas7]

 

Advanced, not moved.

 

Thanks. Good catch; I was about to cry a little.

 

Primaris marine pts have been leaked as well. They're up there with Rubric Marines in costs. I'm not sure if an Inceptor is worth 55 pts though. At least based on this leak, it's clear they've at least thought of point discrepancies when choosing to take special/heavy weapons. Things are looking up for DW!

 

 

Assault bolter is 7pts

 

inceptor is 39

 

the total i get is 159 pts for three

[Valerian]

That's right on, Silas.

[bluntpencil]

 

 

Advanced, not moved.

 

Thanks. Good catch; I was about to cry a little.

 

Primaris marine pts have been leaked as well. They're up there with Rubric Marines in costs. I'm not sure if an Inceptor is worth 55 pts though. At least based on this leak, it's clear they've at least thought of point discrepancies when choosing to take special/heavy weapons. Things are looking up for DW!

 

 

Assault bolter is 7pts

 

inceptor is 39

 

the total i get is 159 pts for three

 

The Sergeant might be different?

[leth]

I also like the points layout all in the back.  Much easier to update instead of having it all in the unit profiles

[Prot]

I was looking at the Primaris stuff in the 2 player set. I don't know if I will put Primaris in my Deathwatch, but I do feel like it appears that Primaris are 'Deathwatch friendly'.

 

I'm looking at the <Chapter> wild card faction designation. So it appears they are a 'generic' unit that fits with any chapter. So at the very least, that captain is probably going in my Deathwatch and I think that's thematic. 

 

This is assuming that Deathwatch don't see a special 're roll' ability of their own, but as it stands the Gravis Captain will be able to really help a very strong Pod unit, or even a mid ranged unit with very strong loadouts. 

[leth]

Interesting to see what happens to special ammo going forward.  However I bet we are gonna get a huge price drop so that the basic deathwatch are cheaper but upgrades are more epensive

[Prot]

I think so too. It looks like the weapons will be super expensive. Still dying to see IHB and Frag costs/rules.

 

And this just in....Well, the Primaris style redemptor Dread video is out.... guess that's it for the closet o' Dreadnoughts I hoped to use this edition. Lol

[leth]

Interesting to see what happens to special ammo going forward.  However I bet we are gonna get a huge price drop so that the basic deathwatch are cheaper but upgrades are more epensive

Please, for me it is just another dread in my collection.

 

and with the FOC we have seen we can run ALL DREADNAUGHTS!!!!!

[Moostick]

Leak images say the Chaos Rhino is now double the points.

 

This will change people's tactics severely. At 7 melta bombs, it's no longer a cheap investment. I wonder if point cost is what keeps the drop pod relevant?

[Prot]

I am guessing the difference is the Pod is not a 'teleport' type unit like everything else we've seen. I am guessing Drop Pod assault is still a thing. It really doesn't make much sense to use pods otherwise as Rhino's are so much better.

 

If they kept pods allowing pinpoint deep strike, and you couldn't assault from them, then they're still pretty decent. But Rhino's have essentially become a competent unit unto itself.

 

For me personally the Rhino looks so good.... I don't see using Pods unless they are as I'm hoping above. The first time I want to assault Tau and they have to overwatch Rhino's I'll be giggling like a little girl.

[Boyadventurer]

So looking at the blood angels leaks, Sternguard are 16 points naked and a special issue bolter is 3 pts. I assume it's the same for us, so that's not too shabby. For the 22 points per model we're paying now, you can get that power sword thrown in too!

Edit: Ewww but the special issue bolter is just 30" AP-2 now...

[Prot]

Yea I was looking at that too... and some other stuff became interesting to me as well: It appears mixed units can embark in the same vehicle AND that includes Jump Pack dudes (2 spots per model), Termies, etc.

 

This just in: Drop Pod 105

Razorback 65

 

Dreadnought 70

Ven Dread: 90

 

Libby Termie armour: 145

Captain Termie armour: 122

 

Terminators: 26

 

We can probably extrapolate a lot from that.

 

Bikes: 31

[Moostick]

My initial thoughts:

 

- Combi-weapons only 2 points more? I'm guessing who can take them will be more restricting

- Power axe is 5 pts, whereas the rest are 4. Even GW knew the axe was the best.

- Storm shields are only 5 pts.

- Plasma guns are cheapest out of the trinity

- No more Salvo

- We knew this was coming, but MASSIVE rework in point values.

 

Edit: Really wonder what's going to happen with Drop Pods, Rhinos and Razorbacks. Right now, I have no idea what to make of these point values.

 

Edit2: Frag Cannons Assault 2D6 confirmed!

Veterans with power weapons can actually be a thing now.

Having 2 LCs give the extra attack, but...that seems pointless with how pistols work now. I'd just take a special pistol instead.

What is the point of Power Fists now? Thunder Hammers are literally an upgraded Power Fist that costs the same.

[Boyadventurer]

Razorback you still have to pay for the gun, so you're looking at another 17 (twin HB) to 50 (twin LC) on top.

 

On closer inspection, the SM list doesn't seem to include any GK or DW stuff, so I suppose we have totally separate entries. Maybe that means we can keep our swiss army ammo? Honestly, it may not be a deal breaker for me, but I definitely won't be nearly as pumped if we just end up with a slightly better bolter (that can't even be used with a combi now).

[Prot]

I guess that makes sense. They want to keep DW/GK unique and obviously outside looking in on the Primaris loot. I'm fine with that. I very much love the DW Mark armour.

 

I still love the Rhino for my typically medium shooty lists.

 

Combi weapons might be the real gold for us but let's wait and see what the Frag Cannon/IHB look like. (Still can't see taking an IHB if SIA is cheap, and basically the way 'to wound' works now.) We'll see. Very exciting stuff for us, because let's be honest....

 

Almost all of it is an improvement:
- Deep Strike

- Reserves

- Split Fire

- Runnin' and gunnin (assault weapons allowing Advance)

- Sniper weapons allowing IC targeting.

- mixed armour types -clearly- allowed in vehicles

- Dreadnoughts

 

The only thing that can sort of stink that I'm worried about right now is:

- Forgeworld. Is this going to be like Primaris stuff? Where we can't take it, but all 'normal' chapters can?

- Corvus Blackstar. Still my favorite flyer in the game. Crossing my fingers here.

- Chapter Tactics. Still waiting with baited breath on how our 'To hit' and 'to wound' is affected by our army, and at what cost?

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

May not be much, but I saw this on reddit. 

 

http://imgur.com/a/X7xLA

 

What caught my attention is how the Frag Cannon is handled. I don't play Blood Angels but were they identical in point values when it comes to the Frag Cannons? Shows here that it costs 19 points whereas the Deathwatch codex is 25 points. And also, it does not come with an alternate firing mode anymore. Oh well, the stats are strong at least

[Prot]

No I don't think they were the same points values. When DW first came out a Blood Angel buddy of mine was jealous how much better the DW frag Cannon was compared to his. I don't know if that's really the same Frag Cannon we would get. But I don't know how it works now anyway.

 

The only thing I'm going by is I haven't see reference to the IHB so it makes me wonder if there is a separate chart.